Beth'tilac Log Analysis

[Mimico]

Looooong time reader, first time poster.

Dating back to WotLK my guild's always had problems with low dps. We're a casual, family-oriented guild, but it's held us back on progression. We're always way behind the curve.

Anyway...we're having troubles with Beth. We tried sending up 1 dps but had too many issues downstairs and the healers were out of mana by the time she came down for the third phase, so we decided our best bet was to just keep all dps down. We usually get to 3rd phase with no issues but that last phase seems to last forever. Our best attempt was 3% and she had 42 stacks of frenzy. Some constructive criticism for my raid members would be appreciated. The mage and the resto druid were pugs, the rest is all guild. Unfortunately this is just about the best people we can pull from the guild, so if possible, I'd like to some suggestions for them instead of "your dps is suckxor".

Thank you.

Edit: Can't post links yet
US-Kargath
Guild: Winter is Coming (WiC on World of Logs)

[Ogait]

Can you provide us your raid composition so we can see if we can help on something?

[Deleted]

Wheres the logs? :P

[timoseewho]

Going to guess that this is it, http://worldoflogs.com/reports/tfxyzbknqhhxxcul/.

[Thaendra]

You need to be sending at least 1 DPS up top if you want to do the fight the way it's normally done. Some raids send 2. If below is having problems with only 1 DPS up top, it sounds like a problem with correctly focusing the right mobs in the right order.
Broodling/Spiderlings need to die ASAP, Drones need to die before their energy depletes, and Spinners should be brought down to die at the raid's convenience (when you are waiting around basically). So, spiderlings > drones > spinners. Cleave helps kill spinners while you're killing the drone. Just make sure everyone is focusing the right targets or you have people assigned to certain things (and if you want you can assign a few AoE DPS to the spiderlings so the rest of the DPS can just focus on the drone).

[Sinister Knight]

Honestly, Beth is purely a dps check. If your dps downstairs can't take out Drones before they run out of energy/a new drone comes out, and you get overwhelmed by Spinners while trying to finish off the waves of Spiderlings, then you simply have to have better gear, or a more optimal group comp for full raid buffs (5% haste, 10% ranged/melee haste, crit, replenishment, etc.). One thing you can do to have free dps on Beth is have a Destro warlock put Bane of Havoc on Beth on the pull. This will give you an easy .5mill-1 mill dmg done to her when phase 3 rolls around. Your tank upstairs should make sure he's following his best "dps" rotation as well to maximize dmg to her. If you have to do it this way, it's possible to kill her but will be a lot tougher. Also in Phase 2, everyone except tanks should be grouped up behind her, and tanks should be apart at least 10 yds (make a triangle essentially, that way tanks don't have to run away when they get Widow's Kiss) and burn burn burn. Save Hero for as long as you can, at least to 50-60% before popping all CDs and tearing into her. Then start cycling raid cooldowns for healing: Tranquility, Aura Mastery, Raid Wall from prot pally, Spirit Link totem, Barrier, Guardian/Holy Radiance, etc etc. DPS should save dmg reduc CDs for sub 50% to help with heals: Barkskin, Divine Protection, Enraged Regen, Shield Wall, healthstones, recuperate, Word of Glory, Ice Block, so on. Optimally, you should be able to send 1 melee dps upstairs at least for the 1st cycle, that can help a ton and there isn't too much to dps right away before drone and next wave of spinners comes out.
If you have the funds, look into buying boe upgrades for your raiders. There's a ton out there, hell you can farm VP on any toon and buy boe Valor Bracers for everyone, as well as crafted 365s will probably help.

[Matik]

Yes beth is a DPS check, so you just need to have your raiders DPS better. And you really do need to send someone upstairs with the tank + healer.

Looking at your mage (since I play one and saw him doing ONLY 12k), he is doing something very very wrong. His arcane blast is only 50-60% of his damage when it should be 80-90%. He probably doesn't even realize or know what a burn phase is. I would direct him to the Arcane mage compendium on EJ to help get him informed.

Looking at his armory, he has a spirit ring, using a +10 stats gem, and is only at 13% hit (!!!!). He also is doing a terrible job of gemming + reforging. Overall, it's no wonder he's your lowest DPS, he really should do just a little research, and even do some common sense things, like for example, he is reforging away from hit on his bracer, does he not even realize what the hit cap is?

[grenraven]

Hiya mate,

We started out working on Beth and we were an 11/12 prior to 4.2 on 4.0 bosses so probably similar to yourself.

We had the same problems as you with dealing with the adds and in the end switched to doing Shannox first which we killed after a couple of nights worth of tries. After we did that and got some loot from rep and drops we moved back onto beth and things seemed much more manageable.

I havent looked at your logs but this is how we setup

Have 1 strong aoe class (ideally a surv hunter, shadow priest or as we use a frost dk) on spiderlings, our frost dk is able to pretty much solo these now.

We send out Rogue upstairs with tank and healer (we also send up our lock for first smouldering devestation)

On spinners its vital these are taunted down, they do a LOT less damage when on the floor, and we then had our arcane mage nuking them down.

On the drone we have a hunter full time, but when the arc mage is free he helps and also 2nd and 3rd dev we have warlock on drones too.

Be sure that when the 3rd smouldering devestation comes all your dps focuses on killing the last spawn of spiderlings before beth comes down or you run the risk she will heal, every 1 spider she consumes will heal her for 10% health ie 2 million hit points.

In final phase make sure you rotate cooldowns as the damage ramps up and hold off on heroism until about 35% as it will help your healers too

Hope this helps

Gren

[Deleted]

from the log someone linked for WiC

the prot warior beat the arcane mage on dps?

find a better puger, nickmage was pritty fail.
with a 3% wipe u can't do much if your dps are being beaten by a tank.

your pally tank spent over 3 minutes with seal of insight isntead of truth,
which comparing your log with a recent kil of mine,
i had 101 melle hits and 274 seal of truth + 31 judge of truth hits + 150 censure 559,944 + 259,164 + 0 + 363,137 + 394,851
he had 91 melle hits and 85 seal of truth + 16 judge + 9 judge of truth + 73 censure, 457,119 + 79,165 + 130,539 + 104,852 + 174,427

he may think he is helping you with the self healing from insight buy it's really jsut meaning the rest die because you kil things slower.
seal of insight healed him for only 138k that whole fight thats not even one healthpool for him.

also sheild of the righteous i did 22 times while he only did 8 times. mine did 600k damg over the fight his did 260k

either he needs a look at his talents and spec because Eternal glory isn't in many prot builds now that Wog has a cooldown may mean he is missing something else he should have.

while my kil was in 25 so a few extra buffs here and there, my total damg in a 7:26 fight was 4,010,971.
your 10 man attempt that lasted 7:33 his total damg is 2,285,727.
raid bufs don't make up the 1.8 million damg differance rotation and trusting your healers to heal you does.

some of it may be gear i don't know but here is my armoury if you wish to compare.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Ulther/simple
(loged out in alyrazor gear so dps trinkeys and landslided guardian instead of windwalked mandible of beth)

[Mimico]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like we're spot on with the tactics mentioned in this thread. We never had a drone go up, and only once did we have 2 out simultaneously, and even then it was only for a few seconds. I think what it stems down to is that we just didn't have enough dps in the burn phase. I don't think she should be getting up to 42 stacks of frenzy. When we have our normal arcane mage in, we'll try sending a dps upstairs again, but in the one attempt that we tried that last night she came down just 5% less than she did when we didn't send anyone up. She didn't eat spiders on any of our attempts. The specific class feedback has been helpful. I don't anticipate talking to the PUG mage again, but I'll definitely pass forward the Prot Pally advice.