Feral druids... possible fix

[Slanderize]

Everyone who says anything like "Needs a 30 second internal CD" is pretty much fucking stupid, there we go. It's been said.
You have to LEAVE FORM to get your "instant cast cyclone" it HAS an "internal CD" based upon the fact that it takes 5 combo points to get a guaranteed proc of instant cast, and anything before that is all RNG. The swiftness buff can be removed by a PLETHORA of classes.

Also, there's no other dispellable CC? How about blind? Warrior fear? You gonna cry about the need to remove those as well? How would you REALLY like it if they DID nerf cyclone, but then allow us to cast it IN cat form? Then you'd just start crying about how OP that is.

As far as this whole "You can shapeshift out of scare beast and hibernates" THAT IS A FORM OF CC. Causing us to burn a GCD every fucking time someone THINKS about casting those CC's on us effectively takes out our damage while we're doing the form dance to NOT get CC'd in the first place.

These kinds of posts are the same as a feral druid stating that they should remove hibernate/scare beast out of the arena as it's CC that pretty much pertains SPECIFICALLY to feral druids. Shockingly enough, if a feral was dumb enough to start QQing about that, they, like you, would be called a QQing tardo who needs to learn how to play the fucking game.

[MackMaynee]

Previous seasons matter in current seasons.


A good druid will have somebody on the team CCd the entire match.

Wait.. you have 1200 ratings .. you're either A: Facing really good 1200 rated druids..

or B: You're just bad.

Ferals are OP.. but easily dealt with in arena's. it's their pure damage. We run a 2k Rogue/War/H-paladin and we can kill a feral in 3-4 seconds unless he pops everything he's got.. kidney smoke bomb throwdown bladestorm shadow dance.

Maybe, you should tell your team to replace you.. get a disc priest or resto shaman, and have him spam dispel on the druid.. +97 rating....

PROFIT


In Conclusion: You have low ratings.. Ferals are too bursty but don't have much to work with in retrospect. DK's were more OP at a time, keep that in mind... a very long time at that. Oh, and ferals suck if you spam them with dispel, and when they switch forms, stun or silence them.. 0 armor = easy kill. =D

Good luck farming points off of any non 2200 + feral druid you play.

[Yotei]

Everyone who says anything like "Needs a 30 second internal CD" is pretty much fucking stupid, there we go. It's been said.
You have to LEAVE FORM to get your "instant cast cyclone" it HAS an "internal CD" based upon the fact that it takes 5 combo points to get a guaranteed proc of instant cast, and anything before that is all RNG. The swiftness buff can be removed by a PLETHORA of classes.

Also, there's no other dispellable CC? How about blind? Warrior fear? You gonna cry about the need to remove those as well? How would you REALLY like it if they DID nerf cyclone, but then allow us to cast it IN cat form? Then you'd just start crying about how OP that is.

As far as this whole "You can shapeshift out of scare beast and hibernates" THAT IS A FORM OF CC. Causing us to burn a GCD every fucking time someone THINKS about casting those CC's on us effectively takes out our damage while we're doing the form dance to NOT get CC'd in the first place.

These kinds of posts are the same as a feral druid stating that they should remove hibernate/scare beast out of the arena as it's CC that pretty much pertains SPECIFICALLY to feral druids. Shockingly enough, if a feral was dumb enough to start QQing about that, they, like you, would be called a QQing tardo who needs to learn how to play the fucking game.

If we were talking about 2s then I might agree with you. But we're not.

In 3s, shifting out to throw out Cyclone is not that harmful considering you have another DPS on that target AND that Cyclone isn't just going into thin air, it's going on an enemy player. Using it wisely changes the game. And by the way, that "internal CD" isn't very long, a 20-30 second CD (I'd prefer 20) on the actual proc and not the ability itself would be fine. You could still shift out and Cyclone.

By the way, 1 GCD vs however long that CC would be? Yeah, I'm content with losing that one GCD. Your rage post was bias as hell, I play the class and spec as-well but I'm at least going to have fair judgement with logical thinking.

Rather funny you call everybody "fucking stupid" that doesn't share your biased opinion btw.

[Deleted]

So its not feral druids damage that is ridiculous.

The one ability that makes facing them a nightmare is the instant cast cyclone. My thing is I dont think thats fair at all. Considering its not a debuff that can be cleansed by anything.

So 2 things that i would think would help the pvp side of anyone facing a feral druid would be:

1. Make predatory strikes have an internal cooldown of 30 seconds. That way they cant just keep a target cycloned with instant casts while they kill the focus target.

2. Rework cyclone. Why is this the only cc in the game that cant be cleansed? Makes no sense...


Well i hope people can give constructive criticism and not troll it but i guess we will see

1. Could be ok in some cases though I don't think it will make much of a diffrence (eg. in 2s for feral + dps it won't do crap because they mostly don't even need a second cyclone to kill a target, possibly in 3s as well).
2. Reworking cyclone would wreck resto (and probably balance); I play resto and cyclone is used both offensive and defensive since resto's healing is kind of lame at the moment (imo resto druids are the worst healer this season) and cyclone compensates for that allowing you to keep partners alive or counter offensive cd's of enemies. If it becomes dispellable I bet we won't see any resto druids anymore in pvp.

[Zauber]

Ignorant little person, it takes a lot more to play a feral decently in pvp

It took in the beginning of WotLK. When you had to restealth 3 or 4 times to kill a pala or to kite and contol a DK for 3-4 minutes with everything you've got, or getting whispers about healing in 2vs2 from a person who stands next to you and your feral pvp set, which he thinks you just bought for lulz with some extra point, so you surely have an epic resto gear in a bank.
When you need to be on a target till 50-40% and then let the dots do the work, it is not taking that much

[jimmy valmer]

so much hate in this thread

[Astronomy]

A

warrs reckless whirlwind is very straightforward to avoid (speed increases, dgrip him away from allies, disarm, does push back work?) Unlike cyclone which unless your healer has the druid on focus and a targetfocus dispel marco and has super reflects and prediction isnt avoidable.

You mean warrior's op damage can be avoided, but cyclone not. Cyclone has 20yd range, all heals have 40. if a healer is instant cyloned as soon as the druid consumes combo points, it is his own mistake.

About hibernate / scare beast thing...
Yes, you can totally avoid it by canceling form.

-RDruid casts hibernate
-Feral leaves form and waits for Resto's cast to be over.
-Hibernate cast fails.
-Feral goes in cat form and moving towards his target.
-R casts a instant reju and starts casting hibernate again.
-Feral leaves form and waits.
-Repeat
...

Nearly the same goes for hunter - scare beast.

Ferals damage was OP with UW proc, but now it is all fine. All the hate against us is only because you don't know how to deal with us.

OT: Possible fix is other players try to find feral's weaknesses. Our weak points are not less than any other melee. (No way to remove fear, sap, no anti magic shells, no stun immunities)

[Yotei]

A

You mean warrior's op damage can be avoided, but cyclone not. Cyclone has 20yd range, all heals have 40. if a healer is instant cyloned as soon as the druid consumes combo points, it is his own mistake.

About hibernate / scare beast thing...
Yes, you can totally avoid it by canceling form.

-RDruid casts hibernate
-Feral leaves form and waits for Resto's cast to be over.
-Hibernate cast fails.
-Feral goes in cat form and moving towards his target.
-R casts a instant reju and starts casting hibernate again.
-Feral leaves form and waits.
-Repeat
...

Nearly the same goes for hunter - scare beast.

Ferals damage was OP with UW proc, but now it is all fine. All the hate against us is only because you don't know how to deal with us.

OT: Possible fix is other players try to find feral's weaknesses. Our weak points are not less than any other melee. (No way to remove fear, sap, no anti magic shells, no stun immunities)

The hunter and you are both now wasting GCDs. Thing is, the Hunter will most likely give up sooner.

Also, Resto Druids in particular don't have the luxury to just focus on the Feral and fuck around with him like that. He wouldn't cast Hibernate repeatedly, he'd just Cyclone etc.

Funny thing is I already knew somebody was going to make a comment like your's but just decided they might think it through, so didn't have to type it out.

A good Feral won't get hit by those CCs very much except by another Feral who's insta-casting it.

[Duilliath]

By the way, 1 GCD vs however long that CC would be? Yeah, I'm content with losing that one GCD. Your rage post was bias as hell, I play the class and spec as-well but I'm at least going to have fair judgement with logical thinking.

It's two GCDs. (shift in-shift out). Meaning, if you hit DR on Cyclone because you cast it too fast, you effectively took yourself out of the match as long as you did the other guy.

[Yotei]

It's two GCDs. (shift in-shift out). Meaning, if you hit DR on Cyclone because you cast it too fast, you effectively took yourself out of the match as long as you did the other guy.

I wasn't talking about Cyclone with that bit you quoted. I was talking about the scare beast and hibernate, hence the "CC" bit. :P

/cancelform doesn't result in a GCD and read post above anyway.

[Wolfdragon]

I'm sad to see a feral of all people suggest 20sec internal cd on cyclone, you of all people should know how long it takes to get 5cps with bad rng and no cooldowns to get energy, it'd change the entire playstyle yet again, it's a bad idea... 15sec icd with 3cp 100% chance is savorable hell you'll agree in berserk you don't even use the procc after you stun or bite, cuz you're freakin pressurin like mad, wasting a gcd in berserk is insane, and that's the only time when we actually have cyclones in under 10sec apart, eighter that or we got alot of rng OOC procs and crits, look at it this way, we get an instant cyclone every 5 combo points 5 combo points on average cost around 120 energy, which is 12 seconds ( btw I actually did the math on this one, it's not a number pulled out of my ass ) now add dodged attacks into the equation, parried attacks detterance evasion etc. we already do have an around 15-16 ICD in normal circumstances it's just that with certain cooldowns and good rng, instead of critdropping you like warrs do, we're getting cyclones, I don't really see the issue, we're built around it.

[JayJay09]

I give the op full credit for the cyclone debate. This kind of cc is just not right. On top of that having full access to hardcore tank abilities is fail as well. Those cd's make the druid unkillable. And besides that it is somewhat ridiculous to fall down to 50% hp during the stealth attack stun, although there is somewhat around 4k resilience. And regarding dispells.. The greatest victim of offensive dispells is still the retri..

Just to give you some insight (eq is all pvp): Without wings dps is around ~13k on a non boss dummy.. With wings you get up to 24k+ dps.. So the sustained dmg that can be maintained although being dispelled lies around 13k dps. My Warrior maintains 17k dps and with cds I reach an average of ~22k dps.. And on another note.. My fresh lvl 85 frost dk maintains 12k dps already, although his itemlvl is like 345 smth. To put it in a nutshell rets dmg is probably too high with wings, but nothing but a joke without, making this spec the poorest of all melees in competitive pvp since dispelling is yet spammable big time. And with failing cs not granting holy power a ret can just sit there and wait for an ability to become available again or die..

Ferals got the sickest dmg, the sickest dots, the sickest cc (kitty stun, bear stun, roots, cyclone) and the sickest survival cd's.. Nobody wants you to be a liability in arena or whereever. You shall be equally competitive as any other melee in game, but right now your set of abilities is way too wide and way too strong.

[Duilliath]

/cancelform doesn't result in a GCD and read post above anyway.

Casting an insta-clone does.

[Yotei]

Casting an insta-clone does.

I know, but that's why I told you that it wasn't about the Cyclone part. I was replying to his avoiding Scare Beast & Hibernate. :P

I'm sad to see a feral of all people suggest 20sec internal cd on cyclone, you of all people should know how long it takes to get 5cps with bad rng and no cooldowns to get energy, it'd change the entire playstyle yet again, it's a bad idea... 15sec icd with 3cp 100% chance is savorable hell you'll agree in berserk you don't even use the procc after you stun or bite, cuz you're freakin pressurin like mad, wasting a gcd in berserk is insane, and that's the only time when we actually have cyclones in under 10sec apart, eighter that or we got alot of rng OOC procs and crits, look at it this way, we get an instant cyclone every 5 combo points 5 combo points on average cost around 120 energy, which is 12 seconds ( btw I actually did the math on this one, it's not a number pulled out of my ass ) now add dodged attacks into the equation, parried attacks detterance evasion etc. we already do have an around 15-16 ICD in normal circumstances it's just that with certain cooldowns and good rng, instead of critdropping you like warrs do, we're getting cyclones, I don't really see the issue, we're built around it.

That's a valid point, which is rather good, but at the same time if there's already an ICD on the proc why care if it's added? It would stop the endless cry of players about the particular talent, or at least halt it for a bit. :P

[Pert]

I give the op full credit for the cyclone debate. This kind of cc is just not right. On top of that having full access to hardcore tank abilities is fail as well. Those cd's make the druid unkillable. And besides that it is somewhat ridiculous to fall down to 50% hp during the stealth attack stun, although there is somewhat around 4k resilience. And regarding dispells.. The greatest victim of offensive dispells is still the retri..

Just to give you some insight (eq is all pvp): Without wings dps is around ~13k on a non boss dummy.. With wings you get up to 24k+ dps.. So the sustained dmg that can be maintained although being dispelled lies around 13k dps. My Warrior maintains 17k dps and with cds I reach an average of ~22k dps.. And on another note.. My fresh lvl 85 frost dk maintains 12k dps already, although his itemlvl is like 345 smth. To put it in a nutshell rets dmg is probably too high with wings, but nothing but a joke without, making this spec the poorest of all melees in competitive pvp since dispelling is yet spammable big time. And with failing cs not granting holy power a ret can just sit there and wait for an ability to become available again or die..

Ferals got the sickest dmg, the sickest dots, the sickest cc (kitty stun, bear stun, roots, cyclone) and the sickest survival cd's.. Nobody wants you to be a liability in arena or whereever. You shall be equally competitive as any other melee in game, but right now your set of abilities is way too wide and way too strong.

Most classes have some strong CDs they can pop to stay alive. You're not supposed to kill a Feral through Frenzied Regen, just like you're not supposed to kill a SPriest through Dispersion or a Warrior through Shield Wall. Outside of cooldowns there's nothing terribly impressive about Feral Druid survivability, and they've got a harder time doing damage while focused than most other melee (that don't need to be behind their target).

Dunno why you're rattling off DPS, training dummy DPS, no less. Burst is much more important, and Ret Paladins (and Feral Druids, and Rogues, and Mages, etc) have it in spades.

That's a valid point, which is rather good, but at the same time if there's already an ICD on the proc why care if it's added? It would stop the endless cry of players about the particular talent, or at least halt it for a bit. :P

Yeah, that would be pretty clutch, let's make Feral Druids download another addon so they can track their ICD...

[Stir]

Instant Cyclone requires a Finisher with a number of combo points. That means they can get lucky on lower CP and pop their cyclone, but to make sure they will, they need those 5 CP.
Last time I checked, any other CC was an at-will ability. Many of them have cooldowns, but other than Maelstrom5 Hex, none of them have any prerequisite. And Maelstrom Weapon can proc off of any attack; not specific Maelstrom-rewarding strikes (unlike Combo Points). True; Hex has a cooldown, so I'd call them even.

Caster CCs always have a casting time, that much is true, but melee CCs never have a casting time (save for Warstomp, which I really don't count among these. It's a race-specific stun/interrupt, and too short to really be a CC).

If you really want to complain, then look at Bleed effects. Bleed effects ignore armour, and can only be countered by a RACIAL (Stone Skin). This isn't that much of a problem against Arms, where Bleeds aren't the major part of the damage you deal, but Feral deals a ton of bleed damage; quite a different story. All other DoTs can be dispelled (even if sometimes dispelling causes a ton of instant damage) but bleeds can only be stopped by healing through the damage and waiting till they're gone.
So if you really want something to wine about, I'd say: Ask for a bleed dispeller, and put Feral bleeds in line with other DoTs.

[Raze666]

Ignorant little person, it takes a lot more to play a feral decently in pvp

Exactly this

[Stanton Biston]

Closed due to whining.