Unlimited Detail: Interview | Update

[Deleted]

I do believe what I see and what they say (mostly), but I still have extremely high doubts that any current PC can run it properly when you bring in animation, realtime shadows, physics and all that - things that, as far as I know, they haven't shown yet in action.

[Vespian]

I do believe what I see and what they say (mostly), but I still have extremely high doubts that any current PC can run it properly when you bring in animation, realtime shadows, physics and all that - things that, as far as I know, they haven't shown yet in action.

If what they're saying is true, they're not using even 1% of the GPU processing power. So theoretically, you'd be looking at quite a few left-over possiblities for animation.

[Fraza]

@everyone jumping on the "it's fake!" bandwagon, do you have anything constructive to add to your uneducated opinion? You know, like, why it's fake? Did you even vatch the interview in full length?

[Ms Andry]

@everyone jumping on the "it's fake!" bandwagon, do you have anything constructive to add to your uneducated opinion? You know, like, why it's fake? Did you even vatch the interview in full length?

Well quite a lot of people were giving reasons why they think it's fake you know. Some kind of computery nerd stuff and how the people in the video act weird, etc etc....

as for me, I honestly don't even think it looks that much better. I'm not graphically intense but I really don't see it looking so amazing

[Vespian]

@everyone jumping on the "it's fake!" bandwagon, do you have anything constructive to add to your uneducated opinion? You know, like, why it's fake? Did you even vatch the interview in full length?

Some GM merged the thread, that's why it's now filled with fake-callers

But! I too, get bad vibes from the interview. On one side the demo seemed real, but the interview gave a pre-constructed feeling.

[Fraza]

Well quite a lot of people were giving reasons why they think it's fake you know. Some kind of computery nerd stuff and how the people in the video act weird, etc etc....

Reasons like "the guys voice is too retarded for this to be real."? Come on. And basing your own opinions on someone else's "some kind of computery nerd stuff" is exactly what I'm talking about.
You also have notch who, while having made the successful indie game Minecraft, is not the end-all, be-all of technology. He's used to working with polygons after all. Euclideon responded to notch's claims. On video. And they already have all the funding they need, and not accepting any. Where's the scam, I'm kinda lost here?
The people in the video act weird, because that what people who are not used to cameras do.

I don't know why the Unlimited Detail thing exploded in the last month or so. It's not a that new, I've been following it for over a year. They have made tremendous progress since then. The video they released now is not a demonstration of ultimate domination over the gaming industry. It's, as they put it, to show their fans what they've been working on for the last year or so. They're not asking for your money. Why the hate?

[Vespian]

I think there's not so much hate, as slight distrust. It's a perspective thing and is always subjective and hardly ever fueled by actual facts. Still, it would be fantastic to see this thing come true. Being sceptic right now makes no sense, unless you're someone investing in them

[Zeta333]

Remeber when scientists long ago said the world wasnt flat? They were called crazie and frauds. Remember when it was suggested that the universe didnt revolve around the earth? That was a fraudulent idea back then. People will always resist change.

[Ms Andry]

Reasons like "the guys voice is too retarded for this to be real."? Come on. And basing your own opinions on someone else's "some kind of computery nerd stuff" is exactly what I'm talking about.
You also have notch who, while having made the successful indie game Minecraft, is not the end-all, be-all of technology. He's used to working with polygons after all. Euclideon responded to notch's claims. On video. And they already have all the funding they need, and not accepting any. Where's the scam, I'm kinda lost here?
The people in the video act weird, because that what people who are not used to cameras do.

I don't know why the Unlimited Detail thing exploded in the last month or so. It's not a that new, I've been following it for over a year. They have made tremendous progress since then. The video they released now is not a demonstration of ultimate domination over the gaming industry. It's, as they put it, to show their fans what they've been working on for the last year or so. They're not asking for your money. Why the hate?

yeah, but opinions are opinions and they gave reasons. If someone doesn't trust someone by the way they talk then that's that. Everyone looks at things differently and we shouldn't get mad just because someone else thinks its fake.

As for me, real or fake, I still don't see it looking at amazing anyways. I'm just saying that people gave reasons why they think its fake, and you can't say "Oh that's not a reason" or whatever. Computery nerd stuff

[Doirdyn]

To all of you calling it fake- did you even WATCH the damn interview?

---------- Post added 2011-08-14 at 04:37 PM ----------

Thank you. Interesting find.

That's the SAME video in the original post.

[Deleted]

To all of you calling it fake- did you even WATCH the damn interview?

Yes and it just seems off, there's just something not right about it, but time will tell and it would be nice to be wrong..

Ok firstly some guy that worked in a shop, is actually PC graphic engine expert and develops his own unique engine that uses no PC power what-so-ever and it make everything in 3d to the tightest detail possible and it will run on a Casio watch. It just has that feeling of the Water powered engine all over it.

The Demos and that interview seemed fishy, the bloke seems smarmy and unprofessional, ( the Indian Orphanage what-da'fuk?)

Absolutely no animation shown apart from some 7 year old stuff that looking like it was from the 80s.

they wont take any private investment money, due to his claims being a lie and they would sue him, Grant money can be written-off, they can just say " oops sorry it doesn't work" And walk away

But to be honest with you, the next gen stuff that's coming out like bf3 etc looks amazing. So I cant really see the need for it..

[Herecius]

If what they're saying is true, they're not using even 1% of the GPU processing power. So theoretically, you'd be looking at quite a few left-over possiblities for animation.

The thing that would worry me the most when it comes to animating is that I have no idea how you would animate something using the rendering process that they are. Currently, animation works well because an object is loaded, and then it's animated - it continues to be animated in the game world even if it's not on the screen, that animation is still running. But in this, if it's genuine and I understand him right, the screen is only ever rendering whatever is on it, and nothing more. This is why it can display so much.

Each of those dots is one pixel, and it never loads entire objects - just the amount of the objects it needs for the size that needs to be displayed on the screen. It would be impossible to load everything at once, as people have pointed out - even at minimum amounts of data, you would need thousands of petabytes of hard drive space just to contain it all. So how would animations run if they aren't on the screen? It seems like things could quickly ramp up to being bogged down for every object that is required beyond the first to continue having animation run outside of the screen.

Again, if they're genuine, that's one of the biggest hurdles I see for them is solving that problem.

[Herecius]

But to be honest with you, the next gen stuff that's coming out like bf3 etc looks amazing. So I cant really see the need for it..

Real or not, we should never seek to quash innovation with complacency.

[Zeta333]

But to be honest with you, the next gen stuff that's coming out like bf3 etc looks amazing. So I cant really see the need for it..

Doesnt exactly qualify as next gen, Its an update to an already existing engine, not next gen. This Unlimited detail would absolutelly destroy all modern engines to date if it works like said, ALl the Cryengines, all the Frostbite engines, even havok would have to completelly redo and buy parts of this new product.

The thing that would worry me the most when it comes to animating is that I have no idea how you would animate something using the rendering process that they are. Currently, animation works well because an object is loaded, and then it's animated - it continues to be animated in the game world even if it's not on the screen, that animation is still running. But in this, if it's genuine and I understand him right, the screen is only ever rendering whatever is on it, and nothing more. This is why it can display so much.

Each of those dots is one pixel, and it never loads entire objects - just the amount of the objects it needs for the size that needs to be displayed on the screen. It would be impossible to load everything at once, as people have pointed out - even at minimum amounts of data, you would need thousands of petabytes of hard drive space just to contain it all. So how would animations run if they aren't on the screen? It seems like things could quickly ramp up to being bogged down for every object that is required beyond the first to continue having animation run outside of the screen.

An idea that comes to mind is a sort of tethering between each dot maby?

[Typhron]

This is going to take me a long ass time to write, and I have 15 minutes before work, and am quite tired of the anecdotal evidence from both sides, so I'm going to leave this cliffnote version and post the full one in this post if there aren't any replies (and people do the homework I say to do) or make a new post to support the points I'm going to be making.

TLDR:

*Euclideon has a great concept and everyone wants them to succeed. Gaming isn't a science and has more room to stretch the truth if it means getting results for a better future. That's good for us all who like to play games, because concepts work and have defined the the world as it is now in some cases (PC's being used for active recreation, for example).
*Notch and a few others raise the impossibilities that come along with what Euclideon has proposed, namely the technological restraints and the amount of time it will need to build the software from scratch out of the concept. Which is why only Autstralia's grant program has given Euclideon any money, and nobody else (game developers, for instance).
*Also worth mention is the technological restraints with the above point, and how rendering each 'atom instantly' is nigh impossible with current technology. What Notch did mention was the small demo alone, with the given stats, being stored at about 500+ petabytes, thousands of current high end harddrives working together (in other words, a fuckton of data). What Notch didn't mention is how we've reached the physical limit on processor speed [at the current minute restriction] in January of this year, and that we will need to bend over backwards to push systems faster, such as rendering 1 petabyte of data over a few hours (let alone many more, instantly).
*There can and will be other ways to do what Euclideon proposes, for cheaper. It's a matter of time. But asking for a lot of money upfront with only promises is a surefire way to ruin friendships.

So yes. Off to work.

[Razorlor]

I'm in my 3rd year of game design. I believed the first video, this one has only reinforced my belief further. Can't wait until this stuff becomes the norm.

[Doirdyn]

This is going to take me a long ass time to write, and I have 15 minutes before work, and am quite tired of the anecdotal evidence from both sides, so I'm going to leave this cliffnote version and post the full one in this post if there aren't any replies (and people do the homework I say to do) or make a new post to support the points I'm going to be making.

TLDR:

*Euclideon has a great concept and everyone wants them to succeed. Gaming isn't a science and has more room to stretch the truth if it means getting results for a better future. That's good for us all who like to play games, because concepts work and have defined the the world as it is now in some cases (PC's being used for active recreation, for example).
*Notch and a few others raise the impossibilities that come along with what Euclideon has proposed, namely the technological restraints and the amount of time it will need to build the software from scratch out of the concept. Which is why only Autstralia's grant program has given Euclideon any money, and nobody else (game developers, for instance).
*Also worth mention is the technological restraints with the above point, and how rendering each 'atom instantly' is nigh impossible with current technology. What Notch did mention was the small demo alone, with the given stats, being stored at about 500+ petabytes, thousands of current high end harddrives working together (in other words, a fuckton of data). What Notch didn't mention is how we've reached the physical limit on processor speed [at the current minute restriction] in January of this year, and that we will need to bend over backwards to push systems faster, such as rendering 1 petabyte of data over a few hours (let alone many more, instantly).
*There can and will be other ways to do what Euclideon proposes, for cheaper. It's a matter of time. But asking for a lot of money upfront with only promises is a surefire way to ruin friendships.

So yes. Off to work.

That's great and all, but Notch isn't building the engine, nor are they asking for any money.

So tired of people referencing Notch as the be-all end-all of knowledge when it comes to programming. He made one successful game. In java. That's like talking to Jagex and asking their opinions.

[moaradin]

I don't know what else they would need to show that It's legit. Why in the world would anyone put so much effort into trying to prove this is real if it was just a scam? What would you gain from that?

[Doirdyn]

I don't know what else they would need to show that It's legit. Why in the world would anyone put so much effort into trying to prove this is real?

There's that. Plus they want to show things when they're fully capable and functioning so big companies don't just shut them down as we know what happens when people see a possible loss of money.

You don't force a gaming company to show proof of every little thing, the same concept is here.

[Vespian]

The thing that would worry me the most when it comes to animating is that I have no idea how you would animate something using the rendering process that they are. Currently, animation works well because an object is loaded, and then it's animated - it continues to be animated in the game world even if it's not on the screen, that animation is still running. But in this, if it's genuine and I understand him right, the screen is only ever rendering whatever is on it, and nothing more. This is why it can display so much.

Ye I understood the same, but he also mentioned, that they will absolutely tap into the processing power of GPU and CPU alike, to make their world complete. They're just saying that the static rendering of an environment/background, doesn't have to absorb any resources, so the full power of a GFX card can be dedicated to the animations, lightning and shadowing. That last part is what I implicitly got out of the entire story, but the part about tapping into the available processing power to advance even further was explicitly said.

So I'm hoping they'll be combining technology to come up with a finished product.

I still have one other point of criticism. Why did they not display the demo at the maximum resolution on the laptop? Lack of resources? If so, if it supposedly doesn't need any how is that possible. Or would it just be that it's not optimized for the laptops resolution. Something was said about it at the start, but I forgot and can't view it right now.