Me, My threat and My raid.....

[IIamaKing]

ME>>>>http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Glakner/simple

Ok so Iv read the guides you have saying to ignore hit and ect... Yet I still hav issueswith threats in the early seconds of a fight (Domo specficaly) or on tank swaps (espicaly when my other tank continues to go all out) MY hit is Low sub 3% and my expt is 10 thanks to the truth glyph. On at least 30% of domo pulls I lose threat due to a chain of SotR misses, I am fed a MD but If I dont get my first shield to hit a mage or our DK will pull threats. Is this my fault? Or do my dps need to take a pill and give me ~10 sec before they esplode on on him?

Rotation: DP for 3 HP> Wings > Shield toss> Judge >SotR >CS > HW> then off to the usualy priorty rotation. If I get my first salvo off with out a miss there is no issue but toss a miss or 2 in there and the first 30 sec can be scary. My raid says "GET MORE HIT" I say "SLOW THE FUCK DOWN". Been with my raid for years now so there are no hard feelings but I want to know what you guys think. Get more hit, or slow the fuck down?

[Zankoku]

Tell your DPS to hold back 10-20 seconds.

Sounds like your mage/DK is popping CDs at the start. Simple answer? Hand of Protection them (especially the DK).

[Vorna]

Well there is one thing I can advise. Since cata, if everyone person = around the same gear and talents, dps and others cannot go balls to the wall off the jump and expect the tank to hold threat off the jump unlike previous expanisions. If your having threat problems and your 100% sure its not the skills your using in rotation, thenI would suggest it may be a gear difference and tell others to hold off for 1-3 seconds.

[ruwon]

If anything hit isn't what is causing your threat issues. Lose the hit to about 2% or so and get more expertise. I am looking at 0 expertise and that's where your problem is. I dont think they changed expertise to much on Pallys like it was before where you could have like 5 and be fine. I run about 11 expertise and have no issues at all with threat.

Expertise far outweighs hit as far as threat output is concerned

My armory can be found: us. battle. net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Ruwon/simple

[Deleted]

Next time a DPS pulls aggro from you within 10sec of the start of the fight, chop their hands off, so they can learn to be patient ... What happened to the rule of DPS waiting 5-10 sec to give tank aggro ? Does numbers really matter that much ... I dont even know how many times my raids have wiped cuz the retarded DPS wanna be top, and pulls off the tank by popping all their CD's in the start so the tank doenst have a living chance ... I dont tank much more, so I am not sure if you do something wrong, but the DPS sure is ... Its not just the tanks job to make sure aggro is fine ... Omen was made for a reason, and all classes have threat redcution spells somehow ... So I would say the problem lies within your DPS grp.

[Neressa]

Looking at the Advanced option, I see you reforged 46 hit for 46 dodge, and 36 dodge for 36 hit. Undo that, reforge the hit for expertise, and then don't touch the dodge. Also, enchant your ring

Omen was made for a reason, and all classes have threat redcution spells somehow ...

Warriors and DKs say hi. Unless you mean die and get a battle rez...

[Malthanis]

Your hit/expertise values are fine. It's your raid that needs to chill a bit. As Vorna said, DPS of roughly equal gear level to you can't blow all of their CDs at start and start chewing through the boss like a beaver on speed through a tree. Tell them to chill out, or start hitting them with HoProtection (non-casters hate this). As for your other tank, he needs to chill out too. I usually drop to auto-attacking whenever a tank-swap happens, and if that doesn't cut it, I have a cancelaura macro for Righteous Fury (remember to put it back up a few seconds later, or hilarity ensues).

[ruwon]

Your hit/expertise values are fine. It's your raid that needs to chill a bit. As Vorna said, DPS of roughly equal gear level to you can't blow all of their CDs at start and start chewing through the boss like a beaver on speed through a tree. Tell them to chill out, or start hitting them with HoProtection (non-casters hate this). As for your other tank, he needs to chill out too. I usually drop to auto-attacking whenever a tank-swap happens, and if that doesn't cut it, I have a cancelaura macro for Righteous Fury (remember to put it back up a few seconds later, or hilarity ensues).

I am just curious as to how having 0 expertise gives him fine values? He is asking how to increase his threat output. Unless I am very mistaken Paladin tanks still need expertise maybe just not as much as a Warrior would need. He would see a huge increase in threat if he got to ~11-15 expertise.

This is not an attack to your comment just wondering if maybe "I" am misinformed, which I dont think I am

[Zankoku]

In the long haul, hit and expertise are crap for tankadins. It's only in the opening 30 seconds of a boss pull when DPS are the most likely to pull threat (unless you get a miss/dodge/parry string of about 5 SotR in a row), because after the first 30 seconds, lolVengence takes over and you are able to outthreat most everything (frost DK KM string aside).

On tank swap fights, the other tank has to STOP ATTACKING so that your Vengence has a chance to stack. Having tank slow down (or just autoattack for about 10 sec) should not be the deciding factor in whether or not your raid hits the Enrage timer. If it is, then your DPS is slacking off and not sustaining a high enough DPS output.

Tank swap example: Argaloth (shush... best example because 99% of 85s have done Argaloth). After the taunt, if I don't stop my rotation, I will pull off of the other tank because my Vengence (and therefore threat) is a lot higher. Going to just autoattacking for 5 sec or so, then just HoPo maintainence for SotR after taunt, allows the other tank to build threat and Vengence.

[shadowenergy]

Our pally tank only has 2.41% hit so thats not your issue. Are your dps going full out before you have time to hold aggro? Also MD threat is only temporary We use to have our hunter MD to the off tank or someone else and then taunt off that player to make the threat permanent instead of only temporary. 10 seconds in an awfully long time to wait especially in fight where DPS checks are essential. (i.e. HBaleroc) Domo is kinda hard though if you have to pull him into place because once you pull you don't have alot of threat in the beginning, and have to wait for placement depending on where you tank him. If your DPS are dumb and dont allow time for placement and casting while hes still running to you that's their fault and should be the ones getting checked.

[Simples]

Add some more expertise to your gear ,and tell the DPS to slow up just a bit. Should fix your problem.

[Zankoku]

I am just curious as to how having 0 expertise gives him fine values? He is asking how to increase his threat output. Unless I am very mistaken Paladin tanks still need expertise maybe just not as much as a Warrior would need. He would see a huge increase in threat if he got to ~11-15 expertise.

This is not an attack to your comment just wondering if maybe "I" am misinformed, which I dont think I am

Ideal Tankadin values are base 0 hit and base 0 expertise (using SoT glyph for 10 free expertise is best choice for threat Major glyphs).

[Neressa]

I am just curious as to how having 0 expertise gives him fine values? He is asking how to increase his threat output. Unless I am very mistaken Paladin tanks still need expertise maybe just not as much as a Warrior would need. He would see a huge increase in threat if he got to ~11-15 expertise.

Huge increase yes, but if he were to get up to that value he would lose out on quite a bit of avoidance stats. He needs to find a way to get to 102.4% and still have expertise and hit values >0%.

[Crazypants]

If a mage is popping all their cds at the start of a fight and their mirrors aren't included in that, they deserve to pull the boss, not have it taunted back, and a wipe come out of it until they learn their lesson. This coming from a main mage with pally tank alt who main tanks gear raids. Classes with no threat drops need to learn to give tanks at least 3-5 seconds to establish some aggro, if not more depending on gear.

[jhelom]

Try DP for the 3HP> Wings > exorcism>Shield toss>judge>CS>(whatever until you get to 3 HP again)> SotR > etc...

Also should probably swap out Glyph of Judgement for Shield of the Righteous. Then Focus shields instead of Dazing shields. Swapping the holy wrath glyph with Ascetic Crusader or Consecration may help too

[nemadin]

the problem isnt hit or expertise, any gear you have with this on it/reforged to will be a survivability loss. getting 5 seconds more balls to the wall dps isnt going to make or break an encounter that relyies more on proper execution than straight dps raceing.
in saying that some dps can be retarded and ussually its the ones that dont have or dont know/wont use their threat reduction.
I macro salvation to our feral druid or our frost dk and chuck it up a few seconds in for conveniences sake. if you have Holy pally or ret they can do the same. but bottom line is DPS should be waiting for vengeance to stack up. If they pull threat they deserve it

[Synnie]

Telling them to watch omen if you get a string of misses and/or use hand of salv for for those dps that spike. I would also suggest building a "main" gear set and a "threat" gear set and switch a few pieces depending on your need. As a rule of thumb, you don't want to sacrifice survivability stats for threat stats though. I didn't inspect your character but as far as your opening, I would suggest using your 3 charges of HoPo for inquisition and open with Wings, exorcism, shield, judge then settle into 939. The math has been done to show that this is the highest theoretical burst of threat. If you are getting tricks at the start, wait 6 seconds before you pop wings.

[Mcshiz]

Next time a DPS pulls aggro from you within 10sec of the start of the fight, chop their hands off, so they can learn to be patient ... What happened to the rule of DPS waiting 5-10 sec to give tank aggro ? Does numbers really matter that much ... I dont even know how many times my raids have wiped cuz the retarded DPS wanna be top, and pulls off the tank by popping all their CD's in the start so the tank doenst have a living chance ... I dont tank much more, so I am not sure if you do something wrong, but the DPS sure is ... Its not just the tanks job to make sure aggro is fine ... Omen was made for a reason, and all classes have threat redcution spells somehow ... So I would say the problem lies within your DPS grp.

If your raid is worried about berserk timers then 10 secs is an eternity. Also, missing 10 secs at the start of a fight means you miss a pretty solid chunk of a prepot, which can help a raid push out of certain phases quicker, save the healers a bunch of mana etc.

[Desminn]

get the avengers tanking cloak...it has hit on it but reforged it still gives near the same midigation as the 365 quest one plus the extra bit of hit left over.

not to mention higher bases stats.

also DP for 3 HP>Inq>Wings>Exo>Shield toss for an opener will give you a bit more threat (so long as you dont get a heavy miss streak)

also also get a threat weapon...you can swap weapons after your vengance is stacked. id recommend an obsidium cleaver with landslide if you can manage.

[Larivas]

From everything I've seen (and in practice it seems to hold true) the best threat opener is Plea -> Shield throw -> Judgement if not in melee range -> SotR -> go into rotation. Don't pop wings until you have 2 holy power and you're about to use CS (or shield if you have the proc) to get the 3rd and SotR again. This way the damage boost you gain from wings will be significantly more, since you will have vengeance and a 5 stack of censure.

Editing: After looking at your armory you'll want to change your spec around a bit. Take your points out of eternal glory and grab judgements of the just. You can also move your one point from improved hammer of justice into guarded by the light. For your glyphs, judgement is VERY weak. Get the glyph of shield of the righteous instead. Also, the crusader strike glyph is more of a threat increase than judgement as well, but it is still pretty weak. For single target fights like domo you can get glyph of focused shield since it is a major it won't replace anything important.

Maintankadin suggests this spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRkdRRucbG However I like to get 2/2 reckoning and 1/2 guarded by the light.

Also, eye for an eye procs off of many boss abilities, you can drop improved judgements in order to get that for additional threat. I currently run with it as judgement range has never been something that I wish I had.