[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Deleted]

That is probably my biggest fear with F2P, all content outside of raids being point – click – dead! Not having time to raid these days I get my challenge from going one on one with the world primes, not having raid gear the fights are awesome, if I mess up in star-com or with any of the other big boys I die. The fact that I can actually die playing content makes me happy, if they remove that and join the clone wars ? Well....what is the point in playing.

[Neri25]

It's like people think you can't have accessible difficult content.

All content needs to be accessible is to be... accessible. As in, no prerequisites I can walk to the content. If I'm not prepared for it I'll get my ass handed to me. That's fair. It's how BC handled it when they shed attunements, and a great many unworthy guilds were indeed destroyed by various bosses in Black Temple.

That's all I really ask out of a modern MMO. Don't gate zone access behind long tedious quest chains, the gear and skill requirement should take care of that. All it requires is the fortitude necessary to not nerf things into oblivion because people who were utterly unprepared for something walked in and got destroyed.

TBH I feel like people have an almost baseless lack of faith in devs on that score. Blizzard was better about that kind of thing than people seem to believe. The one thing they have been honestly guilty of is difficulty level bloat while trying to push raiding to a broader audience. The entry level requirement has dropped lower and lower, but the top end has gotten pretty damn tough, and a form of tough based less on tight gear requirements and more on heavy coordination/performance requirements.

I will actually agree with you that the small group content did take too long in most cases. The attunement issue had more to do with the medal requirements that typically got botched because of bugs, balance, or bad design.

Also had issues with the reward scheme, they loaded too much into golds which lead to an issue of people dropping when gold was no longer achievable. People would rather literally waste their time investment in the content than press on.

Being honest, the game sort of made me mad. It was one of the few modern games that managed to capture that sheer wonderment, but the flaws marred it heavily. And that makes me mad at it, not because I hoped it would fail, but because there was something good there that might never be truly realized.

Also, Farside was incredible and is still my favorite MMO zone of all time.

[Graeham]

I never understood the entire hatred against Bashiok. Is it because he put people in their place that were whining? Have to guess so.

No. It's that he acted unprofessionally and often responded to meaningful, constructive critique with little beyond contempt. He also supported the ridiculous fiasco that surrounded the attempt to attach personal details to forum posts on the official site back when the Real ID controversy was a thing. Perhaps it's as simple as him lashing out due to being weary of working for the same company for so long. If that's the case then hopefully he'll carry himself with more grace and dignity within his new position.

[Deleted]

Btw will they be at gamescon, or as in... can we hope for some updates this weekend`?

[Deleted]

I will actually agree with you that the small group content did take too long in most cases.

Yes, and it was not just that. It was way too time consuming attunements, way too hard raids and a organization level from 2004.

Raiding proper has always been a niche endgame for hardcore and or dedicated players.

Not really nowadays. In every successfull MMORPG raiding is major content for many. While i include LFR as a part of raiding, even the group finder for normal difficulty adressed 40% of the players for the first wing, which is not the "tourist mode" you talk about. Even if LFR was removed, raiding in WoW still would adress millions.

Actually, it's more disgust that people like you are so full of joy when a niche game flops because you want everything to be the same.

I do not enjoy if games fail. I just know that my predictions always get confirmed on that. I actually would like a strong competition in the MMORPG market, but unfortunately Wildstar adressed the wrong target group in endgame to be even close to be a competetor.

I understand that having different types of games that cater to different types of players is actually healthy for the genre and allows for innovation compared to the constant stream of shit we've been given since Wrath of the Lich King.

But catering to a small all demanding minority is not innovative. It is conservative, as it reflects a mid 2004-mindset when everquest ruled the MMORPG market. Infact, the former devs of wildstar wanted to get back to those days, which did just not work. It is not innovation which drove those people to turn back to stone age, but a blind nostalgia and the illusion people would be willing to pay the content for other without actually experiencing it.

Every game has to cater to the worst of players these days and none of them are anymore successful for doing so.

Lets say, a 200 mio budgeted AAA MMORPG should adress a broad audience in endgame. And not just the most vocal minority that is no real benefit for something like a MMORPG. I actually cant see anything the small parasitic exclusivity-focused raiding community added to the game. They want the most content they dont pay themself.

You know, i think there could be a way to create a raiding game for competetive raiders only, if it was paid by them only. But i dont see any working concept for a small minority that is being carried by a big audience that should stay out of the raiding content.

If you want a exclusive raiding game, you probably should find people with that mindset and a lot of money to create a indie game for that special target group. There is crowd funding, and there are surely a lot of people who pretend to be great gamers so it could even get more payment from people who infact arent part of that target group.

We need super casual games like Warcraft, hardcore games like Wildstar, games with a story focus like Star Wars, and sandbox games like Archeage(that are boring) so the genre has choice and flavor.

But Wildstar, being a AAA MMORPG, never was planned as "hardcore" game. Only the raiding part was planned like that. Unfortunately, raids consumed too much of the development budget, so that the content that real matters, and should be the blood of Wildstar and not the parasite that drinks it, was not really polished, done and enough to adress a broad audience anymore.

We need all those games to be healthy and vibrant so we don't suffer clone after clone after clone of the same boring shit.

We would need games with different game mechanics, different gaming components, but i am sure the gaming industry could survive without just another everquest, that only adresses a very few. We had those days at the start of 2000 already, and it didnt work out. The wildstar devs didnt learn from that, and here we are. A game thats literally destroyed by a small demanding minority.

Carbine has delivered solid content actually. The raids when functioning are actually very challenging and give you an actual sense of achievement when you kill a boss. What Carbine failed to do was everything else.

Yes, because most of the money was put into minority gameplay. As the devs wanted raiding to be so #hardcore.

If this game was so hardcore why the hell did you even buy it? Why did you follow it? Why are you even here dancing on the grave so to speak? Are you that bitter that a company was trying to take a chance and think outside the box? Do you want everything to be Warcraft with a different skin?

I bought it because i knew how it is going to evolve. And i was right. At the end it will become one of the most accessible MMORPGs. With a lot of content outside of raids, which even are not getting any new content anymore. Which have no attunements anymore, which have no large orgnization prerequisite anymore.

I already knew that it will fail miserably and come back as a broad audience game. And i was right.

You already have a game with content designed for casuals. Why should EVERY game cater to you and your kind?

So many stereotypes.

What is the problem of there being MMO's designed for different types of players?

There is no problem. Its just not working to create a AAA MMORPG with a 200 mio budget with a endgame catered to a small toxic subset of organized raiders. If you want to create a big player in the MMORPG market, you have to adress the big audience, and cant put the largest part of your development budget into gameplay for a few only.

Everybody who intended to raid in Wildstar knew exactly what they were getting into. Those that didn't weren't paying attention.

Exactly. That is being reflected by the numbers of players in Wildstar nowadays. I dont see a good chance for wildstar to have a comeback. But we will see. If it is going to adress the broad audience and wont limit content to the "exclusivity"-crowd, it at least has a chance.

They want something for everybody but it's only so-so.

Sounds like Wildstar, and not Warcraft. Anything outside of raids was so-so at start of Wildstar.

[Acidbaron]

Btw will they be at gamescon, or as in... can we hope for some updates this weekend`?

Yes they will be releasing some new information.

On the subject of raid popularity, as everyone is merely pulling anecdotal evidence i know of guilds moving to WS from WoW to raid again, neither do they have issues recruiting. Attunement takes them barely any time to complete nowadays.

Also ignore Rym he's like the casual crusader until every mmo is bland and dull with nothing challenging he's happy since that's his standard.

[Deleted]

On the subject of raid popularity, as everyone is merely pulling anecdotal evidence i know of guilds moving to WS from WoW to raid again

If i see the wildstar subs and sales and their development it seems a lot more people left Wildstar to play their raids in WoW, SWTOR or FFXIV nowadays.

Its quite amusing you defend the focus on a minority considering the fact Wildstar is close to its death. You should have a healthy interest the game adresses as many people as possible in both endgame and early game.

[Krille]

Yes they will be releasing some new information.

On the subject of raid popularity, as everyone is merely pulling anecdotal evidence i know of guilds moving to WS from WoW to raid again, neither do they have issues recruiting. Attunement takes them barely any time to complete nowadays.

Also ignore Rym he's like the casual crusader until every mmo is bland and dull with nothing challenging he's happy since that's his standard.

Hey Acidbaron, i played with you in Filthy Gorgeus, are you still raiding or what sup?

[Deleted]

The funny thing is some organized raiders would even press the self destruction button before they would give "their" precious content to the "filthy casuals", while they cant grasp it was exactly the "filthy casuals" that paid their content.

So much for toxic behaviour.

[Acidbaron]

Hey Acidbaron, i played with you in Filthy Gorgeus, are you still raiding or what sup?

Hey, nope i'm currently not raiding i'm helping out a former guild from WoW, providing them raid information.
Mort pulled the site down a month or so ago, people are a bit spread some are still in codex the rest no idea.

Quite a few guilds are restarting and GA has gotten significantly easier due to the gear overhaul i would imagine, it's even so that old raid items are fairly weak in comparison to everything new.

- - - Updated - - -

The funny thing is some organized raiders would even press the self destruction button before they would give "their" precious content to the "filthy casuals", while they cant grasp it was exactly the "filthy casuals" that paid their content.

So much for toxic behaviour.

You have been more toxic against anyone that likes to raid than any raider has been to a casual in this thread and that's with not even looking at your complaining about raiders all over this board even since that would even dwarf most of the toxic behavior of a raider on this board. The concept of irony completely escapes you.

[RoninaThorstone]

It's like people think you can't have accessible difficult content.

All content needs to be accessible is to be... accessible. As in, no prerequisites I can walk to the content. If I'm not prepared for it I'll get my ass handed to me. That's fair. It's how BC handled it when they shed attunements, and a great many unworthy guilds were indeed destroyed by various bosses in Black Temple.

^^^

It's funny to me that we've forgotten the games of our childhood, where you had a difficulty slider and could step into challenging content shortly after unboxing the game.

[Deleted]

You have been more toxic against anyone that likes to raid than any raider has been to a casual in this thread and that's with not even looking at your complaining about raiders all over this board even since that would even dwarf most of the toxic behavior of a raider on this board. The concept of irony completely escapes you.

I am not critizizing raiders in general, only those that suffer to the special snowflake syndrome and want the raiding content for themself only.

That behaviour actually is toxic, as it demands the allocation of a big chunk of the development costs for a small minority only.

[Acidbaron]

I am not critizizing raiders in general, only those that suffer to the special snowflake syndrome and want the raiding content for themself only.

That behaviour actually is toxic, as it demands the allocation of a big chunk of the development costs for a small minority only.

If we looked at games purely from a cost perspective we would all be playing nothing but facebook games. Great idea.
Thanks for confirmation of the "I don't like these things you shouldn't like them either!"

Without the initial popularity of raids, mmo's like WoW would have never lifted off.

[Deleted]

Without the initial popularity of raids, mmo's like WoW would have never lifted off.

They would have been even more popular if blizzard made them accessible from start.

At the start of WoW, raiding was a niche game. Blizzard learned from that mistake.

[Acidbaron]

They would have been even more popular if blizzard made them accessible from start.

At the start of WoW, raiding was a niche game. Blizzard learned from that mistake.

Impossible to proof as it didn't happen that way, pure speculation

[Deleted]

Impossible to proof as it didn't happen that way, pure speculation

Sure it is possible to proof that. Kel'Thuzad and Illidan were killed by some thousand people. LFR justifies the creation of much raid content as millions play it.

Quote Ion Hazzikostas. And theres an old wowjutsu statistic showing that 19.000 people killed illidan.

Today 70% play LFR. 40% use the manual group finder to find raid groups in WoW for normal. Which is still million of players.

We could argue if LFR is engaging content. I think its replayability value is way too low.

[Acidbaron]

Sure it is possible to proof that. Kel'Thuzad and Illidan were killed by some thousand people. LFR justifies the creation of much raid content as millions play it.

Quote Ion Hazzikostas. And theres an old wowjutsu statistic showing that 19.000 people killed illidan.

Today 70% play LFR. 40% use the manual group finder to find raid groups in WoW for normal. Which is still million of players.

We could argue if LFR is engaging content. I think its replayability value is way too low.

Nothing in there validates as proof that raids weren't the main attraction point back then, plenty of people raided and didn't finish raids that's not a counter either.
LFR wasn't around back then so LFR popularity nowadays can't be factored in as relevant point either.

[Deleted]

Nothing in there validates as proof that raids weren't the main attraction point back then, plenty of people raided and didn't finish raids that's not a counter either.

A maximum of 15% of the people played raids in classic (Quote Chilton), and only the first Tier, so its a real good proof how "popular" raids were. They were a minority gameplay, most people leveled chars and played dungeons those days.

LFR wasn't around back then so LFR popularity nowadays can't be factored in as relevant point either.

Sure it shows how popular raid content could be.

The most successfull implementation of raiding in WoW is the one that neither is a traditional choreographed challenge and nor organized. The success of LFR adressing 70% of the players actually contradicts any idea of conservative game design that advocates challenges and competition as the main motor of gameplay.

While Wildstar failed miserably with their endgame design for a few, games that offer at least a common level of accessibility are successfull. As like SWTOR, FFXIV.

[Acidbaron]

A maximum of 15% of the people played raids in classic (Quote Chilton), and only the first Tier, so its a real good proof how "popular" raids were. They were a minority gameplay, most people leveled chars and played dungeons those days.



Sure it shows how popular raid content could be.

The most successfull implementation of raiding in WoW is the one that neither is a traditional choreographed challenge and nor organized. The success of LFR adressing 70% of the players actually contradicts any idea of conservative game design that advocates challenges and competition as the main motor of gameplay.

While Wildstar failed miserably with their endgame design for a few, games that offer at least a common level of accessibility are successfull. As like SWTOR, FFXIV.

One big flaw in your reasoning there, the popularity of Wrath of the lichking.
Raid design is not conservative either, not sure what you are on about.

Only a blind man with an agenda would accredit the problems of wildstar on their raids.

[Deleted]

More cut backs at Carbine

Jeff Kurtenacker ‏@JeffKurtenacker 14h14 hours ago
YES!!!!!!! Finally a use for this little guy in some #WildStar music. https://instagram.com/p/58PeZ3h_C8fd...FAJI0X432QNE0/ …