[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Deleted]

I assume most people in competitive PvP will use the autoaim feature. If someone doesn't, they are going to be at an extreme disadvantage.

im guessing people will just get better at aiming.

I also have no problem with hotkey combat but id be disappointed if its as bad as you say.

[Kelimbror]

im guessing people will just get better at aiming.

Haha...yeah...sure. Considering a computer is always going to be faster than human reaction time, I don't think that's going to happen. That's not to say some people won't use it and excel, as I'm sure a pro LoL player would be able to perform just as well, but on the average?

Nah. Most people using skill shots will do so our of ignorance of the feature. People playing demos and beta didn't even know about it, that's how non advertised it is. Potentially they can remove it completely once launch hits and it was only there for facilitating beta testing? But it doesn't seem likely.

[Deleted]

this is what i was expecting tbh.

maybe arena will benefit from auto targeting more but theres ways to counter than like turning it off lol.. open world and warplots i think ill stick with free form.

[Kelimbror]

maybe arena will benefit from auto targeting more but theres ways to counter than like turning it off lol.. open world and warplots i think ill stick with free form.

I mean I love the skill shots and would enjoy questing with them. I feel like I could maximize it efficiently with multiple mobs, but apparently the damage is overtuned and that's not possible atm. We've just all learned by now that the path of least resistance will be what the overwhelming majority of MMO players will gravitate towards.

In this case, free aim bot? Winner, hands down lol.

[Deleted]

Haha...yeah...sure. Considering a computer is always going to be faster than human reaction time, I don't think that's going to happen. That's not to say some people won't use it and excel, as I'm sure a pro LoL player would be able to perform just as well, but on the average?

Nah. Most people using skill shots will do so our of ignorance of the feature. People playing demos and beta didn't even know about it, that's how non advertised it is. Potentially they can remove it completely once launch hits and it was only there for facilitating beta testing? But it doesn't seem likely.

i was talking purely pvp.. enemies in pve can auto aim all they want as it doesnt really bother me because dmg and telegraphs can be tuned for more balance then add in character CC's etc.

[Kelimbror]

i was talking purely pvp.. enemies in pve can auto aim all they want as it doesnt really bother me because dmg and telegraphs can be tuned for more balance then add in character CC's etc.

True. But I don't think they would force one mode of targetting over another in just one mode of gameplay, otherwise it would be confusing and frustrating for players who don't use it normally. Just kinda an example of wishy washy design principles, which is why I fear this game needs a lot more refinement than we realize.

Having the choice there is great on paper, but kinda awkward in practice. Feels like they wanted to go bold and just have skill shots, but included standard tab target combat in order to appeal to more people. I think they should have just left skill shots and had no autoaim, but I'm afraid we're too late for that.

I'm not sure what system I would use or even prefer in this game tbh. WoW was always my favorite MMO, so naturally tab target is comfortable....but the design is so mobile that I really like the way skill shots might feel. I play LoL, GW2, and Tera so that level of combat isn't unfamiliar. It's one of the 'issues' that don't affect me personally, but I can see that it would turn off a lot of players and cause implications for the game as a whole.

[Deleted]

i still dont think the targeting is really an issue as i only really saw it as being a big deal for pvp and to aoe mobs.. which still seems very viable once enemy "white damage" is more in tune with skill / survivability. Id like to see something like a global cooldown on tab targeting and even then it really looked like it was more of a benefit when changing targets completely as it looked like you still had to aim.

Alot of the abilities are supposed to be free form only and as we've only seen mid-level stuff maybe they dont want to overload the player with telegraphs and movement while at the same time trying to aim and get a perfect hit again and again.

this is just my opinion and im sure peoples perception of how they should work will change depending on what content they like and their play styles but with the overhaul of systems maybe we will get to see a different approach to how we aim aswell.

[Pejo]

I'm guessing we're talking about the Auto Face when tab targeting - I really doubt that will be widely used as it is very clunky with free form target abilities. Some of the abilities are 'charge' abilities as well so you'd have to keep hitting tab if you wanted to use auto-aim and you'd have to ensure no other mobs are around. That feature, if even used, will be used by beginners not needing to react to quick movement. Since there is a lot of movement in pvp, I just don't see it being used.

[jearle]

B2P (GW2) model pros and cons:
+ Player feels less entitled to new content.
+ A player can pick up the game and drop it at any time, without the worry of spending money.
+ Players can spend their money as they choose.
+ Developers get money from the boxes sold and the in-game store.
- If the box doesn't sell well, the company has had a major loss and the game fails. (This is a big one.)
- Content may not get pushed out quickly, unless they have an insane team like Anet.

F2P pros and cons:
+ Player can pick it up more easily.
+ Player can choose what they pay for.
+ Player feels less entitled.
- Content may not get released as quickly.
- (Not much of an issue here.) Player may have to pay to win, although doubtful, since p2w models don't do well for non-Asian gaming markets.
- The company could lose money.

P2P model pros and cons:
+ The company may gain more monetary success at the beginning of a game.
+ Large-scale content may be easier for the company to release.
- Most players can only afford one MMO at a time, and most P2P model players would be WoW players.
- WoW player market is difficult to compete with.
- Players feel extremely entitled to the things they want.
- P2P MMO may be hard for a market flooded with new P2P mmos for people to pick up.

Some of your Pros in those revenue models in my opinion are cons.

The revenue model is really a dead horse though. We know people fall into camps when it comes to the revenue model.

Wildstar will be a subscription based MMO and there is small chance that they are going to go back on this decision for launch so discussing this anymore than it already has (in length about 100 pages back) is kind of useless.

The videos of the first dungeon you encounter in the game have impressed me. It seems they are taking boss design and utilizing the tools they have (telegraph system with dodge mechanics) to create some cool and challenging content.

Hope to see some more updates on the game and to keep tabs on it.

[Darkademic]

"Concurrent" doesn't imply "at any given time". Most of the times it's a daily peak. Unless explicitly stated otherwise.

The definition of concurrent is "at the same time". It's probably an average rather than a peak.

That was in the first 4 months, not what it is right now. Just the usual PR trick.

Maybe, but that's just an assertion.

It's impossible to say exactly how many people are still playing, but for a comparison, PlanetSide 2 had 1.6 million accounts 1 month after launch, and around 320,000 concurrent users at that time. Based on that, 440,000 seems more than reasonable for 3.5 million accounts.

I don't think any game should be judged based on the number of players it has (within reason). GW2 was a really good game, but for many (myself included) it lacked any really hardcore/challenging elements, those being something WildStar is putting a lot of emphasis on.

[RoninaThorstone]

I'm guessing we're talking about the Auto Face when tab targeting - I really doubt that will be widely used as it is very clunky with free form target abilities. Some of the abilities are 'charge' abilities as well so you'd have to keep hitting tab if you wanted to use auto-aim and you'd have to ensure no other mobs are around. That feature, if even used, will be used by beginners not needing to react to quick movement. Since there is a lot of movement in pvp, I just don't see it being used.

The idea that there won't be an addon that makes the autoaim feature stick during casting / charge / channeling or on instants is sort of... Optimistic.

[Kelimbror]

The idea that there won't be an addon that makes the autoaim feature stick during casting / charge / channeling or on instants is sort of... Optimistic.

I could also rebind the tab key to function on something less awkward, though I have no problems with tab myself. Additionaly I could macro it into every button on my mouse or keyboard so that it auto tabs for me. Not to mention the fact that as much as it's trying to be downplayed as 'clunky' this goes further than other MMO tab targets and actually faces the enemy for you.

This will not only make bots easier to program, but it will make ganking you easier for someone who excels at making macros/using addons as opposed to having skill in the gameplay. Have fun trying to hit me with skill shots when I'm double jumping constantly, dashing past you, and slapping one button to 180 and blast you while you are wildly swinging the mouse and telegraphs everywhere.

I might roll a stalker just to circle strafe people who use the skill shots and not auto facing and just spam the auto attack equivalent until they die.

[Pejo]

The idea that there won't be an addon that makes the autoaim feature stick during casting / charge / channeling or on instants is sort of... Optimistic.

I believe that will fall under automation (except for the instants) so I don't believe it will. From my sources, I don't see the ability to even do that (at least using tools available); HOWEVER, WACC was done without the tools so I can't say for 100% because that was impressive.

[RoninaThorstone]

I could also rebind the tab key to function on something less awkward, though I have no problems with tab myself. Additionaly I could macro it into every button on my mouse or keyboard so that it auto tabs for me. Not to mention the fact that as much as it's trying to be downplayed as 'clunky' this goes further than other MMO tab targets and actually faces the enemy for you.

This will not only make bots easier to program, but it will make ganking you easier for someone who excels at making macros/using addons as opposed to having skill in the gameplay. Have fun trying to hit me with skill shots when I'm double jumping constantly, dashing past you, and slapping one button to 180 and blast you while you are wildly swinging the mouse and telegraphs everywhere.

I might roll a stalker just to circle strafe people who use the skill shots and not auto facing and just spam the auto attack equivalent until they die.

I... Hadn't considered that yet. Perhaps I was afraid to look down that very dark path.

Hmm. I suspect that they will have to implement some counter measure like blocking addons from interacting with 'auto facing' and make it so you can't rebind that function because otherwise your going to see things like "at least in WoW you had to turn yourself toward your enemy. So much for skill shot based gameplay" and "why have aiming as the default when everyone with the addon roflestomps those without it?"

- - - Updated - - -

I believe that will fall under automation (except for the instants) so I don't believe it will. From my sources, I don't see the ability to even do that (at least using tools available); HOWEVER, WACC was done without the tools so I can't say for 100% because that was impressive.

I can't log in and check (for obvious reasons) but if KV is right and we can assign autofacing to a less cumbersome key then that program that was used for WACC would also be able to make it so on all your abilities, holding down the key would also cast autofacing. So if you held while casting channeling or charging you would face your target. 1 more month till I can tell you for sure if it's possible.

[Kelimbror]

I... Hadn't considered that yet. Perhaps I was afraid to look down that very dark path.

I just don't understand how this is being downplayed. Either way makes no difference to me, but this is a case where providing the choice is going to do nothing but put many players at a disadvantage. They should have commited to skill shots 100% and at least everyone would be on equal footing.

I'm hoping combat is getting an unmentioned overhaul when they redo questing, otherwise it's being presented very awkwardly. I will enjoy either system, but if it's between me using skill shots and someone else using autoaims, I'm going to use autoaims too as it will be more beneficial most of the time.

I have a Logitech keyboard and mouse, so I can macro an otherwordly amount of buttons to use with ease. All of them could start out like : "Send Host Keys" <TAB> and now I have auto-auto-target.

[Deleted]

we understand that there could be issues with tab facing.. but its not auto targeting and like i said there are simple ways of preventing it being used in macro's or for a benefit over free form. adding a global cd, not allowing to use it while casting, hit it three times in quick succession and your character spins around and gives yourself a daze debuff (lol i wish), adding a damage debuff to the next skill.. etc etc.

it also wont work if u need to spam it in crowded areas or you really will be spinning around.

[Kelimbror]

hit it three times in quick succession and your character spins around and gives yourself a daze debuff (lol i wish)

Uber immersion, lol.

Most of the fixes just aren't straight forward or player friendly. That's the problem with their concepts. The fixes aren't really possible, so there's a possibility it will just exist on it's own. Granted we have lots of new beta time to hear rumors of when it comes, but they didn't mention any of this recently so we don't even know if it's being looked at.

[Keren]

I believe that will fall under automation (except for the instants) so I don't believe it will. From my sources, I don't see the ability to even do that (at least using tools available); HOWEVER, WACC was done without the tools so I can't say for 100% because that was impressive.

Don't know if its longer possible, whole time of cataclysm it was possible to macro camera movement into macros. Thus my hunter had macroed the following for pvp: Jump, 180°, <Cast>, 180° into one button and it worked fine. Could just run anywhere I liked and was able to shot things behind my back...

the API for W* is still very open.. I think they got many feedback after they startet the dialog with known wow addon developer from curse

[Deleted]

wait that macro for 180 is better than strafing and using a mouse to move? kinda seems pointless to me.. but maybe it works.

[Vespian]

But if this is true:

Just so I get the picture on this auto-aim thing;
- This turns the game into what is essentially a HOTKEY MMO as TB once described it, or for more accuracy, a TAB-Targeting game?

Then this is automatically false:

Wildstar isn't a WoW clone, anyone who thinks it is needs to play the game

After all:

I haven't kept up with this game but when it was first announced I did read a bit about it. My impressions after playing for ~20 minutes at PAX was that overall it is pretty decent so far, granted I didn't get very in depth with it. The starting area was pretty typical, kill this, do this, bring me this, find this place, etc., etc. Combat was pretty good, I like the whole "aim your attacks" thing, BUT PVP sucked. This aim your attacks makes PVP frustrating because it is like two vanilla WoW paladin's fighting each other. You fall asleep before the battle ends. Trying to aim attacks and actually have them hit made the battles take much longer than they should IMO. I got bored a few times and just ran off.

The animations and graphics and all that jazz were quite nice. Very fluid animations for running and skills and the likes, and the graphic style (WoW has the same cartoonized style) I prefer to the games trying to be realistic