[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[DeadmanWalking]

Not usually, since the people who do end up raiding in the first place are usually the same players who are willing to invest in raiding to begin with. Yet many raiders have no interest in tackling dull and boring content or artificial barriers. A lot of people raid because they enjoy teamwork, the trials of overcoming a tough encounter and to experience an epic and memorable story.

The whole 'casual vs hardcore' is nothing more than a cheap veil carefully nurtured by misguided raiders and developers that embrace it as an convenient distraction that allows the latter to avoid actually making enjoyable and engaging content.

Hey you need to stop with all the truth telling, this is about 'feeling' special, not truth.

[Acidbaron]

I get what you're saying, but to me it sounds like, "If you can't even get motivated to eat dog food, won't that lack of enthusiasm carry over to that filet mignon?"

That doesn't make sense to me as you're speaking of things of complete different quality here to greatly exaggerate something. The truth is the biggest road block if we look at forum feedback is the timers from silvers, what is a good evaluation point, not the world boss part or any other part what has been pulled into question and been rated negatively by everyone including raiding guilds.

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Hey you need to stop with all the truth telling, this is about 'feeling' special, not truth.

Surprised it took this long to be resorted again to stereotypes and insults.

There are people with different opinions out there and feeling special has nothing with why i like raiding, it is even so with how little you get back from raiding currently you don't got anything to brag with in game even if you wanted to. You're better of farming an 1800 gear set and showing that off.

[DeadmanWalking]

When ever someone explains to me that content has to be exclusive so they can 'feel' special and the 'feeling' you get when you accomplish an attunement or the 'feeling' you get when someone admires your gear they always seem to take on that lofty emotional voice just like someone who is trying to tell you that it is worth spending $2,000 to take a 1-month old and their 2 year old sibling to Disney World, "Oh but the expressions on their faces are priceless *sung in a musical whimsey voice* even though you are like, "Yeah but I can get the same expression from them by pulling a penny out of my nose and they won't remember the penny or Disney WOrld 2 hours later and I get to keep the penny...... but good luck in that amusement park not riding amusement park rides because you have infants with you."

Feelings do not trump reality.

[DeadmanWalking]

That doesn't make sense to me as you're speaking of things of complete different quality here to greatly exaggerate something. The truth is the biggest road block if we look at forum feedback is the timers from silvers, what is a good evaluation point, not the world boss part or any other part what has been pulled into question and been rated negatively by everyone including raiding guilds.

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Surprised it took this long to be resorted again to stereotypes and insults.

There are people with different opinions out there and feeling special has nothing with why i like raiding, it is even so with how little you get back from raiding currently you don't got anything to brag with in game even if you wanted to. You're better of farming an 1800 gear set and showing that off.

I didn't insult you so you can stop acting like a victim now. The thing about stereotypes is that they are not always true but do represent a norm among that group, so you can get over that too unless you can prove to me that a majority are not 'special snowflakes'. Don't like my opinion? Then /ignore me, I don't really care if that hurts your 'feelings'.

The only reason someone would get bent out of shape over what I said is if they do this themselves and can't handle that someone else said it's a shitty way to behave. If the shoe fits wear it.

[Acidbaron]

I didn't insult you so you can stop acting like a victim now. The thing about stereotypes is that they are not always true but do represent a norm among that group, so you can get over that too unless you can prove to me that a majority are not 'special snowflakes'. Don't like my opinion? Then /ignore me, I don't really care if that hurts your 'feelings'.

I said why i didn't mind the barrier and why i want it and it had nothing to do with feeling special, yet you felt the need to instead of disagreeing with the points made to create a stereotype and change it to something else.

Don't have to act like a victim when you're literally going for personal pop shots, which i don't mind you can do that however does mean i won't participate in this pissing contest.

[DeadmanWalking]

I said why i didn't mind the barrier and why i want it and it had nothing to do with feeling special, yet you felt the need to instead of disagreeing with the points made to create a stereotype and change it to something else.

Don't have to act like a victim when you're literally going for personal pop shots, which i don't mind you can do that however does mean i won't participate in this pissing contest.

Did I quote you and say that? No? Did I mention you in particular? No? Then tell me, how is it that I am insulting you in particular? Is it because in your head you decided I was refering to you because you know deep down inside it describes you to a T? Sounds like this is more on you than on me.

I was not pulling you aside and telling you what I think of you, I was standing on a soap box in a crowd and shouting my thoughts. I am really sorry that you took my disparaging words personally but it makes me think, maybe you need to spend some time thinking about why you feel I was describing you.

[Orange Joe]

I said why i didn't mind the barrier and why i want it and it had nothing to do with feeling special, yet you felt the need to instead of disagreeing with the points made to create a stereotype and change it to something else.

Don't have to act like a victim when you're literally going for personal pop shots, which i don't mind you can do that however does mean i won't participate in this pissing contest.

Where? I see no insults directed at you.

[Acidbaron]

Did I quote you and say that? No? Did I mention you in particular? No? Then tell me, how is it that I am insulting you in particular? Is it because in your head you decided I was refering to you because you know deep down inside it describes you to a T? Sounds like this is more on you than on me.

I was not pulling you aside and telling you what I think of you, I was standing on a soap box in a crowd and shouting my thoughts. I am really sorry that you took my disparaging words personally but it makes me think, maybe you need to spend some time thinking about why you feel I was describing you.

I assumed you were referring to me as it was the only other on that page going on about the subject and not minding it, especially when going on about it with one following the other it's hard to not see it being directed at someone. But it's good to know you didn't mean me in particular as that wouldn't have made sense

[Geckoo]

Didn't we have a truce?

BTW, i agree with Bovinity Divinity with the whole meat thing, i came here to raid, if i'm not doing it is not because i'm not good enough or because i don't want. Is because i need to prepare constantly people to be able to access and that is done in content i no longer enjoy out of pure repetition. Even if they remove the timers, it just got too old for me, and now i have some of them in the world boss step, also very fun if we consider that at least in my server no one seems to care and we end up killing them with 4-5 people :/

And even if i'm not good enough, i want a raid boss to prove me that, no some silly guild management issues present in small communities.

[Rocksteadee]

And even if i'm not good enough, i want a raid boss to prove me that, no some silly guild management issues present in small communities.

But I thought herding 50 cats was part of the fun of raiding?

[Kelimbror]

Didn't we have a truce?

Kinda hard to do when one 'side' is being fairly complacent and non insulting, then the 'other side' jumps in saying they and their mothers are being personally insulted. It's like I said "Man, today is so hot...it's terrible" and then someone else says "I LOVE THE SUNSHINE. How dare you insult me!!!111. I would drink the liquid sun and crap sunbeams as is my right. I'm not even going to talk to you since you are insulting me so much".

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But I thought herding 50 cats was part of the fun of raiding?

True story: Cat herding IRL is more fun than in MMOs. It's still as impossible, however. Alcohol may have been to blame for the attempt.

[shimargh]

Well, let me try to explain!

Assume PvE content = Meat.

Filet Mignon = Raiding in that it's the tasty stuff, the stuff that people actually enjoy. This is what people looking for meat actually WANT to eat. It's typically higher quality, got much more attention from the butcher (Developer?) in cutting it just right, ensuring the quality of it, and so on.

Attunement = Dog Food in that...sure, it's still "meat" but it's just bad. It's bland and tasteless - or tastes awful. No one actually WANTS to eat this. It's just a mish-mash of random shit that someone threw into a machine and had it spit out a can of crap because it's cheap and easy to produce. (Indeed, just like dailies, rep grinds, etc)

So telling me, "If you aren't motivated to do attunement, how will you be motivated to raid?" just sounds like what I said above...."If you aren't motivated to eat dog food, how will you be motivated to eat filet mignon?"

I guess the analogy of "bad taste food" is better "than meat vs dog food", sure, you wanna dessert? eat this before.
It's like eating mom's coussine during your childhood, there were food that you didn't like but sometimes (depends on your parents) there was a dessert waiting IF you eat the "healthy" (as they said) food to eventually get to dessert and enjoy. and like in ALL there's ppl who like broccoli, or dislike sweets, or like beans instead of meat and you can't demand that everyone should eat dessert right now, not if it's not your "kitchen" (or house).

Everything has a process, or steps you should accomplish to get to the next one, sometimes some steps aren't quite what you want, and sometimes you enjoy previous steps. The devs has their philosophy, right or wrong, its theirs, we can try to get them to something more enjoyasble for all, but in the end it's their decission.
IF you live alone, you can make your own food, or eat desserts all day, choose what and what not you want to eat. You can make your own game and do whatever you want or try to convince the devs to do what you want, but either way you just can't do it RIGHT NOW, it takes time and it will take MORE time if not everyone is in your wagon.

[Lethey Alexandros]

True story: Cat herding IRL is more fun than in MMOs. It's still as impossible, however. Alcohol may have been to blame for the attempt.

this seems appropriate.

[shimargh]

Indeed, but Carbine isn't my mom. They're not looking out for my well-being, nor do they have authority to send me to my room.

In fact, *I* am paying *them* for this meal, so they're more like a restaurant than a parent, and they had damn well better serve me a meal to my liking when I order it. Not tell me that not only will it be a 2-hour wait before my order is served, but that I also have to eat a horrible appetizer before the waiter will serve me my real meal. ESPECIALLY after advertising, "Best steak in town!" as their attraction. I came for the steak, goddammit, and I paid for it.

There are other restaurants in town. They serve steak too, often as good or better than Carbine Cafes' steak, plus their waiters aren't jerks that make me wait for my meal and insist I eat shitty appetizers. The only "motivation" I feel in this situation is to just take my dining business elsewhere.

That's prety accurate, BUT, If you don't like what they serve you eat somewhere else.
Choices, my friend, you can make them.

[Deleted]

Haven't check on this game in a while, i quit after a while, how's it all going?

[Kelimbror]

Haven't check on this game in a while, i quit after a while, how's it all going?

Meh. It's got a lot of work to do. While they don't seem like they want or can do this work, NCSoft will get them motivated eventually. Stubborn or not, neither company will let this game 'die'. CREDD may save the day for their design model and be ok with a smaller player base, who knows? If you already left the game for just about any reason, there has been nothing to bring you back. Check on it in a few months when they've dropped some more content. Way too early to write them off.

[DeadmanWalking]

Indeed, but Carbine isn't my mom. They're not looking out for my well-being, nor do they have authority to send me to my room.

In fact, *I* am paying *them* for this meal, so they're more like a restaurant than a parent, and they had damn well better serve me a meal to my liking when I order it. Not tell me that not only will it be a 2-hour wait before my order is served, but that I also have to eat a horrible appetizer before the waiter will serve me my real meal. ESPECIALLY after advertising, "Best steak in town!" as their attraction. I came for the steak, goddammit, and I paid for it.

There are other restaurants in town. They serve steak too, often as good or better than Carbine Cafes' steak, plus their waiters aren't jerks that make me wait for my meal and insist I eat shitty appetizers. The only "motivation" I feel in this situation is to just take my dining business elsewhere.

I am certainly not going to pay for dog food so someone else can have the Steak dinner. If I stick around at all it will be for PVP, which again I stress that I am not a natural PVPer, its just the only content I have access to that I find enjoyable now that I have reached end game. Its great that some people are willing to eat dog food to get to the steak but I am not going to keep a restaurant in business so I can continue to eat dog food just to prove I deserve to be there. I'm not going to pay for this.

[Geckoo]

I guess the analogy of "bad taste food" is better "than meat vs dog food", sure, you wanna dessert? eat this before.
It's like eating mom's coussine during your childhood, there were food that you didn't like but sometimes (depends on your parents) there was a dessert waiting IF you eat the "healthy" (as they said) food to eventually get to dessert and enjoy. and like in ALL there's ppl who like broccoli, or dislike sweets, or like beans instead of meat and you can't demand that everyone should eat dessert right now, not if it's not your "kitchen" (or house).

Everything has a process, or steps you should accomplish to get to the next one, sometimes some steps aren't quite what you want, and sometimes you enjoy previous steps. The devs has their philosophy, right or wrong, its theirs, we can try to get them to something more enjoyasble for all, but in the end it's their decission.
IF you live alone, you can make your own food, or eat desserts all day, choose what and what not you want to eat. You can make your own game and do whatever you want or try to convince the devs to do what you want, but either way you just can't do it RIGHT NOW, it takes time and it will take MORE time if not everyone is in your wagon.

This is also a good analogy, except this is a game, is all about having fun.

Sure, there can, and even must, be something that you should do in order to be able to complete other content, this means leveling up, gearing up, getting your character ready... but that's just options the game provides. You want to step in to the raid when you just leveled to 50 with greens? then do it! is the raid difficulty what should suggest players not to do it until they are ready, and then suggest them to run some adventures, some dungeons and maybe craft some gear before trying out such a challenge.

But right now what we have in Wildstar is a process that blocks players both as individuals and as a collective unit. I have already done my attunement, but i can't do nothing until i get 19 more people through the same process, the risks, and reality, is that in that process we constantly lost players, so we need to get new ones and repeat again the same stuff with the consequent burn out for someone else and the risk to repeat again the same issue.

If instead of that we were able to raid when we felt we had enough people ready for it, probably no one would have left the game and even if they did we'll be just fine because we could find replacements that have interest in that same content. Maybe we would still be stuck with the first boss, that's fine, but we'll be playing the type of content we want to play, the type of content that brought us to this game in the first place.


I remember back in the day i could open Karazhan's door for someone else, so even if they still didn't have they key, they were able to keep playing with me (or we simply used the smiley face bug ), but you get the point: let people play what they want to play, let the challenge be the one that slows your game, not arbitrary walls and hoops.

And of course, as you said, since it's their game is up to them to make it as they feel, but we are free to give our opinion about those dumb ideas

[DeadmanWalking]

Personally I am less dismayed about copy pasta northern wastes daily zone than the new original zones with quests that have no names. It's become apparent to me that the 'we will have lots of great non-raid content' promise was lollypop farts on the wind. The rewards for getting beloved in that new zone? A bunch of gear worse than crafted gear and a hoverboard.

[Geckoo]

Personally I am less dismayed about copy pasta northern wastes daily zone than the new original zones with quests that have no names. It's become apparent to me that the 'we will have lots of great non-raid content' promise was lollypop farts on the wind. The rewards for getting beloved in that new zone? A bunch of gear worse than crafted gear and a hoverboard.

That's a big disconnect in the whole reward system and new content. It seems like the zones they'll be adding are focused on the solo type of player, the casual players that doesn't do raiding or even dungeons, so the rewards just follow their own silly progression. The problem is that it isn't working, there are other sources to get better gear in a faster fashion and the time needed to get the cool stuff from those reps is so damn high that it isn't worth doing it.

From my point of view they should add more elder gem stuff, not only gear, and also improve the way a player can win elder gems, including ways to earn them besides the weekly cap. Then also add interesting stuff to those reputations, not only gear, and that could make them more desirable to level up. One great suggestion someone made is to add the AMP/Ability points stuff as a unique reward for beloved in each one of those reputations. Although that doesn't fix the fact that the dailies are boring as hell because they are always exactly the same quests.