[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kickbuttmario]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread <_<. I mean, I know WS has a lot of problems but it has a lot of good things around it, which all takes time for it to be fixed. It took RIFT about a year before it got to a state which is good. Gw2 took a couple months. No idea about the rest. It's the same situation with WS. It may even benefit from a F2P transition or it keeps up with CREDD sales. Which is also proving to be a solid revenue gain for Carbine. You people need to stop talking about the negatives. Its like the majority of you get off from its suffering.

[Nosdrone]

so I find it kind of hard to believe that WildStar dropped from 13th in July to 100th in September.

I don't know what's "hard to believe" considering I posted a screenshot of WildStar, at 100, on October 21st.

- - - Updated - - -

Well here's some positive news: Drop 3 may be on the PTR as early as this weekend!

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/f...day/?p=1214722

The negative news: It's already October 21st and the Drop will need a few weeks to simmer on the PTR. Soooo... mid-November?

[Punisher069]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread <_<. I mean, I know WS has a lot of problems but it has a lot of good things around it, which all takes time for it to be fixed. It took RIFT about a year before it got to a state which is good. Gw2 took a couple months. No idea about the rest. It's the same situation with WS. It may even benefit from a F2P transition or it keeps up with CREDD sales. Which is also proving to be a solid revenue gain for Carbine. You people need to stop talking about the negatives. Its like the majority of you get off from its suffering.

Except the majority of the posters want the game to do well, which goes against that.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It's not so much that we want to watch Carbine's darling burn - we very much hope it will suceed and help reestablish a heavily declining genre - it's just when we hear them say things such as having a subscription model for their MMORPG (subscription model is an antiquated form of payment for MMOs nowadays) and how their going to deliever monthly content (which scoffs in the face of history) and the such; we really begin banging our heads against the wall as our hearts are scalded in agonywhile the very company we hoped had known better is burned by ignorance. (Of the times).

[Lane]

I've kept tabs on Wildstar mostly out of interest to see whether or not a game like it could succeed. I certainly didn't get that impression when I played it and many of the criticisms I made of it after the NDA dropped turned out to be exactly what were pinpointed later in reviews as negatives. I'd say that was satisfying, but I would have preferred they had addressed those things rather than go ahead thinking they were fine. It may not seem it now, but I was extremely hyped for the game... before I had the chance to play it.

Though, I never could have predicted the colossal nose dive it's taken. Wildstar's done way worse than I thought it would and considering my exceptionally low threshold of expectations to begin with that's saying something. While I was hoping Carbine would learn some lessons other MMOs (namely WoW) had years ago, I had no particular desire to see it fail.

I've also been checking to see when/if it goes F2P. While Wildstar in its current state is definitely not something I could invest much time into (and do not feel is worth a subscription), I felt like it could be fun to tinker around in every now and then. However, at this point, I feel like I'll probably pass even on that. I'm still curious to see how this is all going to play out though.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread <_<. I mean, I know WS has a lot of problems but it has a lot of good things around it, which all takes time for it to be fixed. It took RIFT about a year before it got to a state which is good. Gw2 took a couple months. No idea about the rest. It's the same situation with WS. It may even benefit from a F2P transition or it keeps up with CREDD sales. Which is also proving to be a solid revenue gain for Carbine. You people need to stop talking about the negatives. Its like the majority of you get off from its suffering.

There are some people, mainly on this forum, who seem to get some kind of sexual excitement out of watching games dwindle. Its like the "I told you so" young kids do, just in adults. This forum is currently the most negative place for this game, everywhere else is kind of composed to the point where you have negative and positive posts with a balanced argument. But on this forum you just have people coming in and saying "My mate John played this game for 10mins, had no flying mounts. F2P in 2 weeks" or "Its B2P!? What a joke, i have to buy a game and then a subscription too? What is this! 1990?" Most of them people can be flat out ignored because they have no idea about the genre and are probably just trolling. I would appeal to people who like this game to go to other places to seek their information and others opinions as this place generally is as toxic as the LoL forums.

I hope they never go F2P, F2P is the worst form of payment method, its the cancer of gaming. It slides in through the back door via the idiots who don't understand the massive negative effects it has on games & gamers in general (Of course there are exceptions) and just want to get a free game. Then when they hit the content barrier they quit and move onto the next game infecting it with F2P crap. Thankfully we are seeing a extremely large rebellion against F2P and i predict its future as being very glim, gamers are fed up with it and ready for it to die.

[Calfredd]

There are some people, mainly on this forum, who seem to get some kind of sexual excitement out of watching games dwindle. Its like the "I told you so" young kids do, just in adults. This forum is currently the most negative place for this game, everywhere else is kind of composed to the point where you have negative and positive posts with a balanced argument. But on this forum you just have people coming in and saying "My mate John played this game for 10mins, had no flying mounts. F2P in 2 weeks" or "Its B2P!? What a joke, i have to buy a game and then a subscription too? What is this! 1990?" Most of them people can be flat out ignored because they have no idea about the genre and are probably just trolling. I would appeal to people who like this game to go to other places to seek their information and others opinions as this place generally is as toxic as the LoL forums.

You must be skipping a lot of posts to think that. So far, and I've read through hundreds of pages, it's been a handful defending the game to the death as though it were a shining jewel, a few coming in and saying the game sucks, and the rest have been pointing out a lot of negatives with the game as well as talking and pitching ideas on how they could improve.

[Acidbaron]

You must be skipping a lot of posts to think that. So far, and I've read through hundreds of pages, it's been a handful defending the game to the death as though it were a shining jewel, a few coming in and saying the game sucks, and the rest have been pointing out a lot of negatives with the game as well as talking and pitching ideas on how they could improve.

Nonsense all people who had something good to say about the game were also critical, best to take your blinders off, some only started to act silly positive to merely copy the silly negative behavior.

This place is the utmost negative and uninformed regarding this game, simply that people were crying that the game was focused heavy on raids and wasn't F2P or B2P payment method, long before this game was even released the game having issues on certain fronts made it just all the more better for some, people also don't like being told they are bad and that's what this game did if you couldn't make it past silver dungeons.

What was the identical reaction what people had to cataclysm dungeons at the start, expecting every dungeon to but a loot pinata run, speaking of irony when it comes to people asking for challenging small group content and when receiving it a river of tears emerges from several

[Calfredd]

Nonsense all people who had something good to say about the game were also critical, best to take your blinders off, some only started to act silly positive to merely copy the silly negative behavior.

This place is the utmost negative and uninformed regarding this game, simply that people were crying that the game was focused heavy on raids and wasn't F2P or B2P payment method, long before this game was even released the game having issues on certain fronts made it just all the more better for some, people also don't like being told they are bad and that's what this game did if you couldn't make it past silver dungeons.

You're right, I missed a category. The 4th would be quite a few people talking positively about the game but also pointed out that it had flaws. You obviously would be category 4.

[Airlick]

It's not so much that we want to watch Carbine's darling burn - we very much hope it will suceed and help reestablish a heavily declining genre - it's just when we hear them say things such as having a subscription model for their MMORPG (subscription model is an antiquated form of payment for MMOs nowadays) and how their going to deliever monthly content (which scoffs in the face of history) and the such; we really begin banging our heads against the wall as our hearts are scalded in agonywhile the very company we hoped had known better is burned by ignorance. (Of the times).

I really don't get why people keep saying MMORPG is a declining genre, let alone a "heavily declining genre". Somehow every new major MMORPG still gets hundreds of thousands (or millions) copies sold and the revenues for pretty much every MMO company are only increasing, not just because of growing prices. If you want to see a dying genre, check out how many RTSes are coming this year. Or the next year. Or the year after that. Or how many were released for the past few years.

If anything, Wildstar dying may only help the genre, it will show that players don't want ridiculous grind walls and want to get to the juicy parts of the game ASAP. I mean, it will also help the genre if Carbine manages to salvage the game by taking a more casual approach, so I don't really wish Wildstar death, but I want to see one of these things happen.

[Post]

I really don't get why people keep saying MMORPG is a declining genre

People will say anything is dying/dead when they have a bad experience. It's weird.

[Ryme]

I'd still play the hell out of this game if it went F2P, as a subscription, there's not a chance in hell.

[Acidbaron]

I really don't get why people keep saying MMORPG is a declining genre, let alone a "heavily declining genre". Somehow every new major MMORPG still gets hundreds of thousands (or millions) copies sold and the revenues for pretty much every MMO company are only increasing, not just because of growing prices. If you want to see a dying genre, check out how many RTSes are coming this year. Or the next year. Or the year after that. Or how many were released for the past few years.

If anything, Wildstar dying may only help the genre, it will show that players don't want ridiculous grind walls and want to get to the juicy parts of the game ASAP. I mean, it will also help the genre if Carbine manages to salvage the game by taking a more casual approach, so I don't really wish Wildstar death, but I want to see one of these things happen.

Do you know what a grind even is? Before the attunement nerf it didn't even take you long to get to the juicy bits, everyone that got "stuck" on the attunement got stuck on silver dungeons what were a skill check and required you as just in raids to set time aside to run them and progress through them.

What a strange concept! requiring players to actually adapt the same methodology they apply when running raids? Mind = Blown.
The world bosses didn't take long, the reputation grinds didn't take long especially not if we compare it to the main game of this site, it was jokingly easy to grind.
You got 450 rep for every WoTW run, what could be done in or under 12 minutes.

Wildstar went wrong in skewing up their reward systems in dungeons together with their itemization surrounding that, the whole attunement thing would probably been less of an issue if you never could get easy epics from adventures to begin with and felt the need to run dungeons to get geared up.
You even had people complaining after the removal of those easy epics that dungeons got harder, while they were using crafted items what when well itemized by player choice were better then first floor raid drops /facepalm.

But if players felt that after every dungeon their character was advancing it wouldn't have been an issue, as that's what everyone does when a new WoW expansion comes out they run dungeons to get geared up, i ran dungeons more in WoW spend more time in WoW getting raid ready then i ever did in Wildstar.
Why? because 3 of the 4 dungeons on silver took me about a night each, SoTM took an extra evening and this was before all the nerfs and complete out of bounds random objectives that could add 10 minutes to a run.

If i have to make the sum of time i needed to spend to get completely "raid ready" for a first tier in WoW i would be grossly over it, not even to mention flask and what not aren't including in the enrage checks even for fights on wildstar.


In general the mmo market isn't shrinking but it reached it peak long ago, mmo's are an easy access genre to a point (some exceptions) and were one of the few games back then that were actually largely played online. When MMO's were already more mature that's when you just noticed FPS servers popping up and so on and so on, now the online gaming community is larger but much more segmented over several mmo's not to mention genres.

[Geckoo]

Do you know what a grind even is? Before the attunement nerf it didn't even take you long to get to the juicy bits, everyone that got "stuck" on the attunement got stuck on silver dungeons what were a skill check and required you as just in raids to set time aside to run them and progress through them.

After some months we are still stuck in that idea? It was not the skill check what drove potential raiders out of the game, but the fact that there was a forced mandatory wall blocking them from the activity they came for. Although i agree with you that the fucked up gear system didn't help at all, the concept of mandatory individual attunement was just a big mistake. Let people decide when they are ready to raid, specially if raiding is mostly the only good thing your game has.

If i have to make the sum of time i needed to spend to get completely "raid ready" for a first tier in WoW i would be grossly over it, not even to mention flask and what not aren't including in the enrage checks even for fights on wildstar.

It's not about time, it's about options. You can step in WoW's first raid the moment they open it, the fact that you decide to get some gear first, have some flasks, some food... that's entirely your call (and we all do it, but because we want, not because the game forces us to do it).

[Ausr]

There are some people, mainly on this forum, who seem to get some kind of sexual excitement out of watching games dwindle. Its like the "I told you so" young kids do, just in adults. This forum is currently the most negative place for this game, everywhere else is kind of composed to the point where you have negative and positive posts with a balanced argument. But on this forum you just have people coming in and saying "My mate John played this game for 10mins, had no flying mounts. F2P in 2 weeks" or "Its B2P!? What a joke, i have to buy a game and then a subscription too? What is this! 1990?" Most of them people can be flat out ignored because they have no idea about the genre and are probably just trolling. I would appeal to people who like this game to go to other places to seek their information and others opinions as this place generally is as toxic as the LoL forums.

I hope they never go F2P, F2P is the worst form of payment method, its the cancer of gaming. It slides in through the back door via the idiots who don't understand the massive negative effects it has on games & gamers in general (Of course there are exceptions) and just want to get a free game. Then when they hit the content barrier they quit and move onto the next game infecting it with F2P crap. Thankfully we are seeing a extremely large rebellion against F2P and i predict its future as being very glim, gamers are fed up with it and ready for it to die.

I'm pretty fascinated at how fast a game population just up and left a game so fast. That's sums up my interest in this thread.

[Acidbaron]

After some months we are still stuck in that idea? It was not the skill check what drove potential raiders out of the game, but the fact that there was a forced mandatory wall blocking them from the activity they came for. Although i agree with you that the fucked up gear system didn't help at all, the concept of mandatory individual attunement was just a big mistake. Let people decide when they are ready to raid, specially if raiding is mostly the only good thing your game has.



It's not about time, it's about options. You can step in WoW's first raid the moment they open it, the fact that you decide to get some gear first, have some flasks, some food... that's entirely your call (and we all do it, but because we want, not because the game forces us to do it).

If a guild had issues getting people attuned that lack of organization, planning and structure would cause issues in raids also, organized guilds had very little issues with the attunement it is true however that your typical small 10 man WoW guild that plans everything on ad-hoc and never needed to have much structure those people had issues.


Actually Geckoo, it is pretty much required as the bosses are based around certain numbers you need to pull an entire raid with questing greens wouldn't get you anywhere as your tanks would be crushed, your healers mana pool and healing power would be insufficient and your dps wouldn't meet the dps checks and before the recent patch you would even need a certain amount of hit rating and before that defense and so on. Could you enter a raid yes? Could you get past the first boss? No.

So wildstar translated this into making it physically impossible to do so expecting people to run dungeons first to this new game making people learn the basics and having the gear. Now on the gear part i already spoke out about so won't repeat that but yes an initial mistake made regarding reward layers made more parts of the game suffer from it. Would've the game been kept in development for another few months and this rooted out there would've less issues.

[Geckoo]

If a guild had issues getting people attuned that lack of organization, planning and structure would cause issues in raids also, organized guilds had very little issues with the attunement it is true however that your typical small 10 man WoW guild that plans everything on ad-hoc and never needed to have much structure those people had issues.

You still fail to understand that if people has issues in raid it's entirely their problem, not yours. Let them hit the raid boss wall if they feel like it, because that's exactly what they want. They don't mind wiping for weeks just to kill the first boss as long as they are playing what they want to play.

Also, you had a good guild, with a good raid, i'm sure you guys faced a lot of issues, but medium guilds simply had a different set of issues and good organization was not the solution to all of them.

Actually Geckoo, it is pretty much required as the bosses are based around certain numbers you need to pull an entire raid with questing greens wouldn't get you anywhere as your tanks would be crushed, your healers mana pool and healing power would be insufficient and your dps wouldn't meet the dps checks and before the recent patch you would even need a certain amount of hit rating and before that defense and so on. Could you enter a raid yes? Could you get past the first boss? No.

I know, but you can still go there bare naked if you want. As i said, it's about options. Of course anyone who wants to raid seriously will gear up first, but there is nothing forcing them to do so.

In WS without the attunement it would be exactly the same. Once you feel your raid group has enough gear you simply get inside and let the raid boss be the one telling your group if you are or not prepared.

So wildstar translated this into making it physically impossible to do so expecting people to run dungeons first to this new game making people learn the basics and having the gear. Now on the gear part i already spoke out about so won't repeat that but yes an initial mistake made regarding reward layers made more parts of the game suffer from it. Would've the game been kept in development for another few months and this rooted out there would've less issues.

We'll never know With a good gear progress i'm sure the whole attunement stuff would be less problematic, no doubt about that, but it would still have issues. It's simply a bad concept to block an entire raid behind individual attunements. Even with good gearing progress we, the players, should be the ones deciding when we feel like we are ready to try it out.

edit: almost forgot... there are 50 levels to learn the basics. But that's also something we discussed too much times in the past Actually, we already discussed all of this... but is always nice to do it after some time to see if time has changed how we see things.

[Osmeric]

There are some people, mainly on this forum, who seem to get some kind of sexual excitement out of watching games dwindle.

Well, schadenfreude is seductive, but the remedy to that is to consider what has happened and will be happening to the people at Carbine. The great majority of them aren't responsible for the mistakes, but will suffer for them.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm pretty fascinated at how fast a game population just up and left a game so fast. That's sums up my interest in this thread.

Yeah, detached observation of the game as a phenomenon can be fascinating.

[Airlick]

Do you know what a grind even is? Before the attunement nerf it didn't even take you long to get to the juicy bits, everyone that got "stuck" on the attunement got stuck on silver dungeons what were a skill check and required you as just in raids to set time aside to run them and progress through them.

What a strange concept! requiring players to actually adapt the same methodology they apply when running raids? Mind = Blown.
The world bosses didn't take long, the reputation grinds didn't take long especially not if we compare it to the main game of this site, it was jokingly easy to grind.
You got 450 rep for every WoTW run, what could be done in or under 12 minutes.

Wildstar went wrong in skewing up their reward systems in dungeons together with their itemization surrounding that, the whole attunement thing would probably been less of an issue if you never could get easy epics from adventures to begin with and felt the need to run dungeons to get geared up.
You even had people complaining after the removal of those easy epics that dungeons got harder, while they were using crafted items what when well itemized by player choice were better then first floor raid drops /facepalm.

What are you even talking about? Having to GRIND (you even admitted it yourself. Running the same instance repeatedly to farm reputation IS grind FYI) rep just to be able to do silly world bosses just to be able to clear dungeons so that FINALLY you can start raiding is normal (obviously then you still have to grind gold if you want to keep up with the ridiculous repair bills)? How does that apply to raiding? Whatever you say won't change the fact that the attunement was a pointless grind with the exception of dungeon runs.

[Deleted]

AcidBaron, just stop and think.

If Wildstar's itemization, especially endgame itemization, had been perfectly progressive and well designed (at least WoW level), would Wildstar's endgame have floundered almost exactly as it did, if they had persisted with the old attunement? HECK YES! After all, the current itemization gave you raid-ready gear on a plate via easy crafting alone!

So, the attunement had to change, particularly since it was based on timed runs and it compartmentalized players even more in an overall system that just could not afford to partition players from each other (already done attunement parts not applying before the actual attunement "quest" is taken).

Hence, you are only right on one issue, that overall Wildstar's itemization (which in turn is linked to several other issues such as RNG) was and is by far the most important issue facing Wildstar mid to long term, but not the limiting factor in the endgame - that was the attunement.

Personally, I believe they lost more players while leveling than they ever lost in the endgame. Leveling in Wildstar felt too much like a grind to many players. It was no SWTOR/ESO 1-VR1/GW2 leveling experience or even an improvement on WoW. Its cluttered questing UI, lack of racial depth, lack of grouping quest progression, extremely unrewarding dungeons and adventures, meaningless "Paths" that could not be experimented or changed, quest and challenge bugs, etc. all led to a reduction in immersion and a significantly reduced incentive to even see the endgame.

The only thing they did reasonably well while leveling was the battleground PvP system, but that was contigent on overall population levels at every bracket (hence PvE, some of whom also never wanted to PvP) and the XP gain from it tapered off significantly for individuals at mid-levels and beyond. Oh, and Housing, but that does not level your character up...