[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Nosdrone]

The Nexus Times: Friendship is Magic
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles...endship-magic/

Good article. Guilds + friends make an MMO experience.

[Kelimbror]

Good article. Guilds + friends make an MMO experience.

Meh. Pass. If a game has no alternatives, then obviously it makes the experience b/c it's literally impossible without a group. Otherwise, a game is perfectly enjoyable as an RPG with other people in it for vitality. - Signed, Hermit MMO Solo Player.

[Acidbaron]

You still fail to understand that if people has issues in raid it's entirely their problem, not yours. Let them hit the raid boss wall if they feel like it, because that's exactly what they want. They don't mind wiping for weeks just to kill the first boss as long as they are playing what they want to play.

Also, you had a good guild, with a good raid, i'm sure you guys faced a lot of issues, but medium guilds simply had a different set of issues and good organization was not the solution to all of them.



I know, but you can still go there bare naked if you want. As i said, it's about options. Of course anyone who wants to raid seriously will gear up first, but there is nothing forcing them to do so.

In WS without the attunement it would be exactly the same. Once you feel your raid group has enough gear you simply get inside and let the raid boss be the one telling your group if you are or not prepared.



We'll never know With a good gear progress i'm sure the whole attunement stuff would be less problematic, no doubt about that, but it would still have issues. It's simply a bad concept to block an entire raid behind individual attunements. Even with good gearing progress we, the players, should be the ones deciding when we feel like we are ready to try it out.

edit: almost forgot... there are 50 levels to learn the basics. But that's also something we discussed too much times in the past Actually, we already discussed all of this... but is always nice to do it after some time to see if time has changed how we see things.

I do not fail to understand from years of raid leading, i fail to see the beneficial part of making people hit their first wall of how to play correctly in a raid, I find it more beneficial as a whole for the overall community if that is experienced in smaller scale content. To put it bluntly i find it as good as a design as were wow heroic raids randomized and you ended up getting garrosh as the first boss when entering.

The learning curve is something that should be necessary were there things in the attunement they could've done without or less? Yes and those things such as the world bosses were things that worked differently going from beta to live and thus ninja changed.

I helped create and maintain a good guild that's why i got somewhere in wildstar, I honestly do not believe that if the attunement was removed said guilds would've maintained their roster longer.

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AcidBaron, just stop and think.

If Wildstar's itemization, especially endgame itemization, had been perfectly progressive and well designed (at least WoW level), would Wildstar's endgame have floundered almost exactly as it did, if they had persisted with the old attunement? HECK YES! After all, the current itemization gave you raid-ready gear on a plate via easy crafting alone!

So, the attunement had to change, particularly since it was based on timed runs and it compartmentalized players even more in an overall system that just could not afford to partition players from each other (already done attunement parts not applying before the actual attunement "quest" is taken).

Hence, you are only right on one issue, that overall Wildstar's itemization (which in turn is linked to several other issues such as RNG) was and is by far the most important issue facing Wildstar mid to long term, but not the limiting factor in the endgame - that was the attunement.

Not feeling rewarded for doing the content was part of the problem and would've made the attunement less problematic as dungeons would've been run for more then one reason and more often.

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What are you even talking about? Having to GRIND (you even admitted it yourself. Running the same instance repeatedly to farm reputation IS grind FYI) rep just to be able to do silly world bosses just to be able to clear dungeons so that FINALLY you can start raiding is normal (obviously then you still have to grind gold if you want to keep up with the ridiculous repair bills)? How does that apply to raiding? Whatever you say won't change the fact that the attunement was a pointless grind with the exception of dungeon runs.

Running a dungeon one evening is a grind, by that definition everything that ever takes any time is a grind. Because every other mmo i played had larger grinds by at least twice that amount.
The repair bills weren't overly large and wildstar is easy to make gold in due to the high vendor price of craftables and farm items especially at launch. Yes you did lose gold if you wiped a lot, in full epic to repair to full i pay what 30g at most?

The attunement required reputation exalted with your faction, what was easy and was about an evening of doing adventures, only more if you did no questing while leveling. Even then 2 days is again a fraction of what other games put you through.

Then you had a few solo quests popped in there, World bosses and adventures and dungeons, Guess what? People barely complained about the reputation grind if you looked at the forums the most obvious complaint was the silver dungeons, nothing else, later that become world bosses what i can understand as that was a pain to time around due to their bug state and no longer being achievement based.

[Dilbon]

Good article. Guilds + friends make an MMO experience.

If you ask me MMOs are too guild-centric.

[Kelimbror]

Not feeling rewarded for doing the content was part of the problem and would've made the attunement less problematic as dungeons would've been run for more then one reason and more often.

I agree. It would have alleviated a large part of the issue with it, but not solved it entirely. People still don't like attunements in general. I will say many, myself included, would have been more motivated to stick in 'failed' groups if there was a light at the end of the tunnel. In that respect itemization did ruin content before it even had a chance, so possibly it was a larger screw up than attunements were in the first place. No way to really know now unfortunately.

[Tekkommo]

Do you know what a grind even is? Before the attunement nerf it didn't even take you long to get to the juicy bits, everyone that got "stuck" on the attunement got stuck on silver dungeons what were a skill check and required you as just in raids to set time aside to run them and progress through them.

I got stuck on the rep part. Was boring as hell to grind and I couldn't bring myself to login to do dailies everyday, as they are the worst type of dailies I have seen in a game since TBC.

I had already done the silver dungeons and silver/gold adventures. There was no way I was going to grind adventures for rep as they are even worse than WoW scenarios. The dungeons are also not fun after completing them for the first time, they have zero longevity.

I was dreading doing the adventures and dungeons again, if I completed the rep part.

So please refrain from using the word "everyone" as that is a blatant lie.

[Kelimbror]

What are the good things again? Housing and?

Aesthetic teams: music and art department. Class design was pretty well done, but the person responsible left too.

[Kickbuttmario]

What are the good things again? Housing and?

For a dog who hasn't even played the game (or even if he did, never got to 50 to experience the problems in the first place), still comes here just to further entice the negativity here, I am still surprised how you have not been infracted. And yes, there is a difference between people talking about the game being better and just talking shit.

I am one of those forum dwellers that when they see something they don't like, they don't really fight it but rather goes with the positives. Its why I stick with WoW and rarely dwell on the whole negatives (and there are a fuck ton that piss me off to this day), unless its something very interesting. However, there is nothing interesting about this games negatives. Its pretty fucking obvious what happened and why its going downhill. Are there people that still like this game? Of course. Is it going to do very well in the long run if it keeps up this pace? Most likely not. Does it have the potential? Yes.

I don't have to tell anyone here whats going to happen after the first 1-3 months of WoD.

[Kickbuttmario]

Please do tell. Also you never gave an answer. What was good besides housing?

Story, aesthetics, music, combat system, Drusera's ass, and leveling to 50...

[Gaidax]

As i said, it's about options. Of course anyone who wants to raid seriously will gear up first, but there is nothing forcing them to do so.

In WS without the attunement it would be exactly the same. Once you feel your raid group has enough gear you simply get inside and let the raid boss be the one telling your group if you are or not prepared.

A simple concept Carbine failed to grasp in their Hardcoarr rage. Basically, I am sure that the lack of understanding of this concept is what killed this game.

[Kickbuttmario]

Story, aesthetics, music, combat system, Drusera's ass, and leveling to 50...

Also the Lopp's. And Chuas. Lots of things really.

[nocturnus]

You know what I wonder, why so many people in this thread are so focussed on how bad this game is. I never liked it myself, but I check out the forum from time to time because it shows up on my RSS feed.

I'd say leave this forum to those that still enjoy the game. But that's just my idea.

[Nosdrone]

Please do tell. Also you never gave an answer. What was good besides housing?

Housing, music, and combat.

Hated leveling because of the ridiculous XP gains if you 'outleveled' an area. Story was decent but nothing to write home about. Thanks to Olivar on the official forums, I hate chua with every ounce of my being.

[Kelimbror]

I'd say leave this forum to those that still enjoy the game.

Let two people talk to each other and leave the other twenty people who want to keep up to date and are wildly hoping for content updates without an avenue to discuss the game? Great suggestion.

[Pejo]

I'd say leave this forum to those that still enjoy the game. But that's just my idea.

To be fair, if this was done, this thread would never be used. Better to have anyone post so the game gains more visibility - keeps it fresh in those minds of those who have played it, but also can recruit new players. At this current time, it actually gets decent hype due to so many stating that drop 3 has to be a miracle patch, or whatever - due to this, people are going to want to check out if Drop 3 does it. This benefits those that do not keep up with this game.

Regarding the post about hoping to put Drop 3 on the test realm HOPEFULLY next week - that is incredibly disappointing. Just milks another month from loyal players before they actually get fixes. Drop 3 looks like it won't hit until end of November due to their bad Q/A. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, yet I doubt it.

[nocturnus]

Maybe both you as kelimbror are right.

If that's the case (that there are few people who still enjoy this game) why even keep this thread alive? <-- never mind, you already answered that: "Better to have anyone post so the game gains more visibility"

I hope the game will be fixed for you guys.

[Kronik85]

I helped create and maintain a good guild that's why i got somewhere in wildstar, I honestly do not believe that if the attunement was removed said guilds would've maintained their roster longer.

It's not your guild that people are discussing or think that a lack of attunement would of helped. It's the fledgling guilds that never took flight that would of benefited which in turn would of stabilized the raiding community. Not every player wants to be in a progression cutting edge guild, some raiders prefer a more relaxed environment and are happy to consume the raids at a much slower pace.

If that means they spend 6 weeks trying to beat the first boss then they are happy with that. Blizzard refers to these as friends and family guilds and it's these guys that never had a shot at raiding in Wildstar down to the attunement.

No matter whether you want to admit it or not, getting together to beat the dungeons on silver was a problem for the majority of the Wildstar player base and my own personal experience of beating the world boss stage amounted to me camping my computer for 2 marathon play session back to back which were way beyond the time commitments most of the ageing MMO population can commit to.

It's laughable when you bring up learning curve in relation to the dungeons. The simple fact of the matter is that the dungeons didn't teach you anything in relation to raids. Like you've mentioned the raid mechanics are beyond punishing, the dungeons were light weight by comparison. I don't know what you think the dungeons could teach a newbie beyond what the adventures did.

In the end the dungeon content was a waste your time as a player in Wildstar which is a massive fucking shame since they were brilliant bits of content, I had a great time running them.

It's a brave new world for MMOs, players are less willing to put up with gated content and generally don't want to commit as much time as they once did to the genre. Rather than kick the habit the players want new MMOs to change with them and Carbine got the balance between what was achievable solo and what was achievable during group play way off. If Carbine had let people achieve more without a group I doubt we would be where we are now. The attunement should of been doable with limited group play rather than being something that people had to commit to as if it was a raid night.

You can keep blaming the players all you want but in the end the metrics win out. People aren't playing Wildstar and it alienated most of it's player base, when asked you generally hear that it just wasn't worth the players time. That's definitely Carbines failing, saying the player base "wasn't hardcore enough" is just bizarre apologist behavior. Carbine should of nailed the systems in the first place rather than setting itself up to fail like it is now. They misread their audience or chased a demographic that wasn't ever big enough to sustain a sub based MMO.

[Lane]

Personally, I believe they lost more players while leveling than they ever lost in the endgame. Leveling in Wildstar felt too much like a grind to many players.

Agreed. The closest comparison I can make would be 50+ leveling in Tera, that's how it felt to me. The quantity of quests was too high while the quality of quests and rewards were too low. The % bar not only didn't alleviate the grind feel, but actually made it worse. I would stop and start calculating how much each mob was yielding so I could figure out how many more of them I needed to kill (which was usually 30+).

Challenges & Paths did not detract from the grind feeling either. It was very rare I came across a non-kill based challenge, which were even worse than the quests because you usually needed to kill at least as many mobs (if you could find them) just for bronze. Paths were, for the most part, a secondary list of tasks to complete.

If you ask me MMOs are too guild-centric.

Agreed.

[Ugum]

Story, aesthetics, music, combat system, Drusera's ass, and leveling to 50...

Drusera did have one hell of an ass. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this, haha!

[shimargh]

Story, aesthetics, music, combat system, Drusera's ass, and leveling to 50...

Drusera did have one hell of an ass. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this, haha!

We're more than we think.