[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Tekkommo]

I found Drusera annoying more than anything. I dreaded doing the quests involving her everytime they popped up.

[Acidbaron]

It's not your guild that people are discussing or think that a lack of attunement would of helped. It's the fledgling guilds that never took flight that would of benefited which in turn would of stabilized the raiding community. Not every player wants to be in a progression cutting edge guild, some raiders prefer a more relaxed environment and are happy to consume the raids at a much slower pace.

If that means they spend 6 weeks trying to beat the first boss then they are happy with that. Blizzard refers to these as friends and family guilds and it's these guys that never had a shot at raiding in Wildstar down to the attunement.

No matter whether you want to admit it or not, getting together to beat the dungeons on silver was a problem for the majority of the Wildstar player base and my own personal experience of beating the world boss stage amounted to me camping my computer for 2 marathon play session back to back which were way beyond the time commitments most of the ageing MMO population can commit to.

It's laughable when you bring up learning curve in relation to the dungeons. The simple fact of the matter is that the dungeons didn't teach you anything in relation to raids. Like you've mentioned the raid mechanics are beyond punishing, the dungeons were light weight by comparison. I don't know what you think the dungeons could teach a newbie beyond what the adventures did.

In the end the dungeon content was a waste your time as a player in Wildstar which is a massive fucking shame since they were brilliant bits of content, I had a great time running them.

It's a brave new world for MMOs, players are less willing to put up with gated content and generally don't want to commit as much time as they once did to the genre. Rather than kick the habit the players want new MMOs to change with them and Carbine got the balance between what was achievable solo and what was achievable during group play way off. If Carbine had let people achieve more without a group I doubt we would be where we are now. The attunement should of been doable with limited group play rather than being something that people had to commit to as if it was a raid night.

You can keep blaming the players all you want but in the end the metrics win out. People aren't playing Wildstar and it alienated most of it's player base, when asked you generally hear that it just wasn't worth the players time. That's definitely Carbines failing, saying the player base "wasn't hardcore enough" is just bizarre apologist behavior. Carbine should of nailed the systems in the first place rather than setting itself up to fail like it is now. They misread their audience or chased a demographic that wasn't ever big enough to sustain a sub based MMO.

We raided 3 to 4 nights per week at most, the 4th day was added for extra time on the final 20 man boss, those are relaxed times considering 3,5 hour evenings.
We were very much the mid-mode and not the hardcore group.

The guilds that could not be bothered or find the stamina in their members to reserve several evenings aside for the attunement would have faced that same lack of stamina when facing their raid encounters as they were punishing in terms of people screwing up.
This again does not have anything to do with how many days you raid but how much time you can set aside to raid, i've yet to see any guild that raids less then 3 hours in a single session. Family or not.

There was a raiding guild in WS that did 2 days a week and managed to get 5 out of 6 even eventually and yes to repeat again if the nights they could commit was commited to getting people attuned then that group of like minded people wouldn't have an issue as those guilds were yes present in wildstar in lesser numbers.


You are aware that i as many other raid leaders and people part of raiding guilds spoke out against the world boss part since beta, what i can't recall anyone being in favor of.
Them changing it so and pretty much the whole attunement line to be direct kills rather then achievement based how they intended to work originally was a ninja change.

Carbines vision for raids wasn't problematic, the raid content was enjoyable, my personal problems was more the move up to 40 man paired together with an inflexible lock out system that caused everyone a headache to do 2 20 mans.

Carbines problem was they started out with a 3 progress Tier game, ended up finishing part of the group (adv-dung-raid) but not completely as listed in issues above with conflicts in both odd itemization and reward structure.
They did The PvP tier but the expected gap was too large eventually what again required several iterations in live to fix.
And the Solo tier what never came into existence in beta, so them not having that and making raids the only PvE endgame is were it fell apart.

The game was taken out of production too soon for whatever reason, cause if you were part of beta you noticed a sudden rush suddenly taken place where as before they appeared to have plenty of time to react to feedback and adjust significant parts of the game.


So please me saying it's all just on the players is false and tells me you just read snippets of my posts to come to that conclusion. I do find several things nonsense as the attunement being a grind especially the reputation part as they are softcore compared to anything WoW gives you and stretches out over a month or more to max out.

[Nellise]

We raided 3 to 4 nights per week at most, the 4th day was added for extra time on the final 20 man boss, those are relaxed times considering 3,5 hour evenings.
We were very much the mid-mode and not the hardcore group.

That would be considered a hardcore schedule for most guilds now in WoW at least. On my old WoW server, in MoP there were probably 20 raid guilds (6 or 7 doing heroics), but only one that did that many days and hours (and were thus #1 on the server). Back during BC those hours weren't unheard of for many guilds, but it seems raid schedules for most people are getting shorter and shorter. I know I'll be down to maybe 6 hours scheduled in WoD when I used to run 25 hours all through vanilla and BC.

[Kelimbror]

That would be considered a hardcore schedule for most guilds now in WoW at least.

Yeah...raiding almost 4 hours for 4 days a week is certainly a hardcore raiding schedule. Hardcore =/= world first. It's just one of those things people say that distorts perspectives. Instead of saying, well yeah you spend your entire work week's free time raiding, they (royal they) say "Look how casual we are, we only raid 4 nights a week...what are you scrubs doing?"

[Kronik85]

We raided 3 to 4 nights per week at most, the 4th day was added for extra time on the final 20 man boss, those are relaxed times considering 3,5 hour evenings.
We were very much the mid-mode and not the hardcore group.

Your more hardcore than you think. It's pretty weird that you went 6/6 and yet don't think your hardcore, the metrics don't bare that out. Believe it or not you are hardcore compared to most of the player base by merit of seeing more of the content than 99% of the player base. 3-4 nights a week is a huge commitment, players with wives and kids can't really commit to that. I'm sure there is the odd exception but it's a big ask.

There are MMO players that started playing in their 20's and are now in their 30's but don't want to kick the habit. You can stomp your feet and say the game just isn't meant for them anymore but Wildstar did itself no favors excluding this portion of the player base from the content they wanted to do. WoW thrives because it offers raid and casual content to MMO addicts regardless of their circumstances, Wildstar simply does not.

There was a raiding guild in WS that did 2 days a week and managed to get 5 out of 6 even eventually and yes to repeat again if the nights they could commit was commited to getting people attuned then that group of like minded people wouldn't have an issue as those guilds were yes present in wildstar in lesser numbers.

So one group of people got their shit together and did something amazing so everyone else should of been able to do that? Doesn't work that way, as evidenced by Wildstars current lack of players.

You are aware that i as many other raid leaders and people part of raiding guilds spoke out against the world boss part since beta, what i can't recall anyone being in favor of.
Them changing it so and pretty much the whole attunement line to be direct kills rather then achievement based how they intended to work originally was a ninja change.

So Carbine messed up? Glad we agree.

Carbines vision for raids wasn't problematic, the raid content was enjoyable, my personal problems was more the move up to 40 man paired together with an inflexible lock out system that caused everyone a headache to do 2 20 mans.

Carbines problem was they started out with a 3 progress Tier game, ended up finishing part of the group (adv-dung-raid) but not completely as listed in issues above with conflicts in both odd itemization and reward structure.

Totally agree.

They did The PvP tier but the expected gap was too large eventually what again required several iterations in live to fix.
And the Solo tier what never came into existence in beta, so them not having that and making raids the only PvE endgame is were it fell apart.

The game was taken out of production too soon for whatever reason, cause if you were part of beta you noticed a sudden rush suddenly taken place where as before they appeared to have plenty of time to react to feedback and adjust significant parts of the game.

Agreed.

So please me saying it's all just on the players is false and tells me you just read snippets of my posts to come to that conclusion. I do find several things nonsense as the attunement being a grind especially the reputation part as they are softcore compared to anything WoW gives you and stretches out over a month or more to max out.

You just said it here again, just looks like you don't even know your doing it. Look.

The guilds that could not be bothered or find the stamina in their members to reserve several evenings aside for the attunement would have faced that same lack of stamina when facing their raid encounters as they were punishing in terms of people screwing up.
This again does not have anything to do with how many days you raid but how much time you can set aside to raid, i've yet to see any guild that raids less then 3 hours in a single session. Family or not.

Your pinning it on the players saying they would of failed anyway. Carbine should of just let them fail rather than walling up the content turning people away before they even really got to grips with the end game.

[Acidbaron]

[/FONT]

You guys keep saying things like that, "If you couldn't finish the attunement you couldn't raid" even though it rarely had anything to do with actually FINISHING the attunement on an individual level, but rather getting an entire guild to stick around through the process when the entire culture was built around guilds poaching other guilds, players "climbing the ladder" and so on.

This crap was predicted even before release. (Hell, I even posted about it) When you have attunements and such, you end up with this kind of culture, and you often end up with - at best - one single guild per server that actually raids.

Certain people can keep up with this, "The game was too elite for you scrubs" stuff until the cows come home, and it'll never be any more true. :|

If you couldn't get past silver dungeons then yes, i don't know what you would be doingin raids.

[Tekkommo]

We raided 3 to 4 nights per week at most, the 4th day was added for extra time on the final 20 man boss, those are relaxed times considering 3,5 hour evenings.

I would class that as semi-hardcore (if it was a lot of 4 nights a week, then that is hardcore) and I know many who would still class it as hardcore.

[Acidbaron]

And i'm sure everyone based on their own environment has their own definition of things, Now this is a bit of a moot point since the raid content was aimed at that audience and them lacking other content is what created this content.

But yes i don't consider myself hardcore, i consider those on my bnet that take a week off from work and raid 10 hours plus per day for 7 days hardcore till progression has ended.

[Deleted]

THINK they do 17 hours per day at hero mode with 250 to 300 wipes per boss being the norm...nuttycore not hardcore lol

Wildstar is more relaxed

[Gray_Matter]

I'd say leave this forum to those that still enjoy the game. But that's just my idea.

So where should people who want certain aspects of the game to be improved discuss that?

[shimargh]

Yeah...raiding almost 4 hours for 4 days a week is certainly a hardcore raiding schedule. Hardcore =/= world first. It's just one of those things people say that distorts perspectives. Instead of saying, well yeah you spend your entire work week's free time raiding, they (royal they) say "Look how casual we are, we only raid 4 nights a week...what are you scrubs doing?"

WHAT!?
srsly you can say that's hardcore...
you can do those 4 hours in 1 day of raiding and it wouldn't be hardcore either.

[Acidbaron]

There you go again, implying it had anything to do with the individual ability to complete the attunement. :|

If you couldn't get past dungeons then there was one or more problematic person in the instance. So yes it had to do with individual ability, it was also so that on my server it was even so that those that felt handicapped by their own guild members they created a circle of people capable of doing dungeons and moved on that way.

People could very much advance past that point if their personal ability was good enough.

[Kickbuttmario]

I found Drusera annoying more than anything. I dreaded doing the quests involving her everytime they popped up.

Dude, that's her ass you're talking about. Apologize to her.

[Post]

It's silly that people are still trying to argue for attunements, I thought we all learned by now that making guilds do work for every single member to be able to raid was a bad idea and that it gradually just drains the pool of players you can pick from. It's like all these hardcore raiders never actually raided in TBC like they claim they have. Or they're just willing to defend the silliest of things about their favorite game.

THINK they do 17 hours per day at hero mode with 250 to 300 wipes per boss being the norm...nuttycore not hardcore lol

Wildstar is more relaxed

I thought Wildstar was the hardest of the hardcore? That's what the other Wildstar defenders have been trying to say, which is it?

[Kelimbror]

WHAT!?
srsly you can say that's hardcore...
you can do those 4 hours in 1 day of raiding and it wouldn't be hardcore either.

....4 hours for 4 days = 16 hours. Add in the time you have to play to be prepared for raiding, including any farming or attunements plus helping your guildies with the same. It easily encompasses the entire time during the week and even some on the weekends with a full time job. I know, I did the same thing during TBC.

[RoninaThorstone]

I hope the game will be fixed for you guys.

I want every MMO to do better. I think the genre has a lot going for it but not enough MMOs are taking tips and tricks from their neighbors.

Tired of watching developers try to reinvent the wheel.

:/

I am pretty frustrated with Wildstar because many of the things I railed against in CBT3 and CBT4 are now considered main issues for the game.
It kind of kills me to be in beta after beta and watch some of the same mistakes play out over and over.

edit: I mean, right now I am watching Firefall struggle with making a meaningful end game with high replayability.
Really... really frustrated that they haven't been listening for the past 2 years where we have been telling them over and over to copy other games like Warframes tower 4 endless defense/survival/capture the points + a vindictus leaderboard system.

Devs just don't want to do what works, it feels like.

[Kelimbror]

Devs just don't want to do what works, it feels like.

This is slightly off topic right....but hear me out. I think this one difference is what has made WoW so successful. They are completely unashamed at almost literal copying of new ideas that went off well. It's why they have the most content rich, highest player MMO. Now, this relates to Wildstar because Carbine seemed poised to do that very same thing...and it looked tremendously promising.

How could you not succeed by delivering all of what every MMO does successfully in one package? In the end it was a little too ambitious and the failed to deliver on a good 50-75% of what they aimed for...which has proven to be successful content in other games, but improved with their spin. Given more time and money, which they would have never gotten, I think it would have been the most jaw dropping thing we'd ever seen.

Now it's just hoping that they can corral enough resources to implement the ideas and features that work well in other games, namely WoW, so that people who want to play Wildstar can do so.

[Ergar]

Dude, that's her ass you're talking about. Apologize to her.

I would literally give my left arm just to get a sniff of that beautiful meat.

[Lane]

Tired of watching developers try to reinvent the wheel.

:/

I am pretty frustrated with Wildstar because many of the things I railed against in CBT3 and CBT4 are now considered main issues for the game.
It kind of kills me to be in beta after beta and watch some of the same mistakes play out over and over.

I totally relate, except I'd actually love to see more wheel reinvention. I feel like a lot of the newer MMOs I've played have been unimaginative and lacked innovation. Wildstar seemed particularly focused on nostalgia, which not only isn't reinventing it's going back to a previous build. :P

I suppose with MMO development being as grossly expensive as it is there's no room to take much in the way of risks though, but the least they could do is design based on WoW 2008+ instead of WoW 2004, that's what I really don't understand.

[highdesi]

I totally relate, except I'd actually love to see more wheel reinvention. I feel like a lot of the newer MMOs I've played have been unimaginative and lacked innovation. Wildstar seemed particularly focused on nostalgia, which not only isn't reinventing it's going back to a previous build. :P

I suppose with MMO development being as grossly expensive as it is there's no room to take much in the way of risks though, but the least they could do is design based on WoW 2008+ instead of WoW 2004, that's what I really don't understand.

WOW 2008+ was not hardcore. The main reason they made this game because they felt wow took a wrong turn in WoTLK.

As I said before in this thread, developers of this game are gamers and thats it. They have no skill whatsoever when it comes to game design. They know how to lie and get box sales though.

The proof is in the pudding. I see this game as amateur venture rather than an actual enjoyable game.