[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Roadblock]

World bosses got reduced in number, sadly they still don't count before you are on that step as they did during beta.

I have to correct you on that last part, having recently attuned an alt all the world bosses that have an achievement attached to them (which means 90% of them bar Zoetic and a couple more) do count for attunement retroactively.
You can even do them pre-50 and they will still count.

When you get to that step you see the quest progress instantly to 33% or 66% or however many (out of 12) you had got.

[Acidbaron]

I have to correct you on that last part, having recently attuned an alt all the world bosses that have an achievement attached to them (which means 90% of them bar Zoetic and a couple more) do count for attunement retroactively.
You can even do them pre-50 and they will still count.

When you get to that step you see the quest progress instantly to 33% or 66% or however many (out of 12) you had got.

Nice TT finally came back to changing that again, combine that with the bug fixes they are finally doing for them for the F2P launch this will actually no longer be an issue, especially now they are starting to up rewards on 'harder' mobs in the openworld.

[Orange Joe]

Not everywhere and going out that red is bad can cause a raid to wipe. Also often it is about knowing what you can and cannot soak. There's more to it than 'just dodge the red' but it is a key point in the encounter design even if it sounds very simple.

Some people believe that dungeon content does not prepare you for raids as it's supposedly completely different in every aspect. I never really got that argument or even the reasoning behind since it builds forth on the same concept.

So what you are saying is you need to learn each fight individually and any previous experience is of no help.



So remind me again what the attunement is for?

[Acidbaron]

So what you are saying is you need to learn each fight individually and any previous experience is of no help.



So remind me again what the attunement is for?

Your reaction time, every step up in the ladder the time given to react is smaller and so is the error margin. Therefor you need learn to function and react to the slower content first so you can correctly react and respond to the faster one without fully needing to know every tactic and being able to improvise quickly so you can actually make progress, much like in every other raid.

Nitpick all you want, but you need to come up with something better than that

[Orange Joe]

Your reaction time, every step up in the ladder the time given to react is smaller and so is the error margin. Therefor you need learn to function and react to the slower content first so you can correctly react and respond to the faster one without fully needing to know every tactic and being able to improvise quickly so you can actually make progress, much like in every other raid.

Nitpick all you want, but you need to come up with something better than that

You aren't saying why none of this can't be learned in the raid if they are willing to bring you. If it's just reaction time, gamers have years of building that up. Reaction time is a skill that transfers from experience to experience.

[Acidbaron]

You aren't saying why none of this can't be learned in the raid if they are willing to bring you. If it's just reaction time, gamers have years of building that up. Reaction time is a skill that transfers from experience to experience.

Because going in a raid with a bunch of inexperienced people at all different learning speeds from zero means you get an uneven playing field and a very horrible experience, therefor everyone needs to pass certain basics standards so that everyone at least starts from a similar position. People should never be taught how to play properly in a raid if a game does that the game their learning curve concept has failed.

You would think that don't you? However more often than not you will see there is a clear difference between experienced and inexperienced players even if they come from other mmo's not everything transfers over, there's time needed to adjust to a control scheme difference how small it might be or even to just break away from old habits.

A good person from WoW would still need time to adjust to wildstar as your combat is different and while every basic user can move around, moving around and still doing all the rest that is required is a world of difference. The opposite is true also before anyone gets butthurt by this comment.

[Gray_Matter]

Well I think you should focus on other parts of the attunement. I agree with the dungeon part, the rep and the world bosses is what irks me.

I think the rep and world boss part has already been debunked with the only defense of that being "lore" which is pretty weak.

Before I start, bear in mind that my WS endgame will consist of only dungeons so I don't have a vested interest either way. I don't have time to do formal raiding.

My problem with the dungeons and the attunement in general. There is no reason why a person fresh off the boat can't do raids and no guarantee that a person who has completed the dungeons can. The dungeons are more of a group test than an individual test. Pick the right partners and you will fly right through. Pick the wrong partners and you are stuffed. It's less of a bearing on you and more about the group. It perfectly acceptable for raiding guilds to only accept people who have completed the dungeons. That's their prerogative. The game shouldn't enforce it. The dungeons and all of the other attunement steps should be compelling enough content on their own. If they are not then that's a problem that needs to be rectified. Right now they are the stick. They should be a carrot. A person who is raiding should want to go out on an off day and do a dungeon. It should be something to look forward to. Instead it's something that they have done to death during the attunement. I feel the same way about the leveling process but that's another discussion. I wouldn't have a problem if they made a challenge instance where that people had to complete before they could get into a raid. A skill test. That's fine because it would be a solo test.

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Because going in a raid with a bunch of inexperienced people at all different learning speeds from zero means you get an uneven playing field and a very horrible experience, therefor everyone needs to pass certain basics standards so that everyone at least starts from a similar position. People should never be taught how to play properly in a raid if a game does that the game their learning curve concept has failed.

Which of these is your reason for defending attunements regarding complete strangers?

1) You feel that people don't deserve to be in raid. They need to earn their place.
2) You are trying to protect them from themselves.
3) You don't want useless people in your raid.

I won't bother with 1 but if your choice is 2 then you may as well support banning of alcohol, smoking and even red meat. Hell, throw driving cars on the band wagon too because all of those are far worse than letting a person into a raid. If your choice is 3 then you are welcome to attach some requirements to your raid group. They could make the whole attunment an achievement called "Capable of raiding, 70's style" and you could make sure they have the achievement before letting them join.

So which is it?

[Deleted]

Think they are seriously looking at LFR, so your number 3 will have a home, really hope it's like the level 10 tutorial dungeon! That will give players a chance to learn more about things.

Any new to the thread and thinking of playing once it goes F2P ? Then check out today's ( 18:00 GMT )

[LazarusLong]

Source on this?

Educated guess. Carbine are making other parts of game more accessible, why shouldn't they do same with raids?

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Yes by saying i did do it all and you haven't, i do discredit you. You may argue principles high and low all you like at the end of the day you have no touch with reality and are as you say merely arguing in general, ignoring the game specifics. I first discredit the point than the person. I'm not going to repeat myself in full in every single post sorry.

WS raiding is not different from WoW raiding on high difficulty. Stop pretending it is.

[Deleted]

Think they are seriously looking at LFR, so your number 3 will have a home, really hope it's like the level 10 tutorial dungeon! That will give players a chance to learn more about things.

Any new to the thread and thinking of playing once it goes F2P ? Then check out today's ( 18:00 GMT )

Interesting, but won't have time to watch... new patch in Hots today :P However, I bet there will be a summary of some kind and that you might guide us to it so we can have a read afterwards?=)
I will grab a cheap physical copy later this month, if they are still available, got some craving for creating a cute house and if Im lucky with getting the big cat it wouldn't be too bad either =). I think you got more items available to put in house if you bought the game?

[Deleted]

2,000 V 1,000 plus with the new joining 5 plots together....you could make a city

[Acidbaron]

Educated guess. Carbine are making other parts of game more accessible, why shouldn't they do same with raids?

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WS raiding is not different from WoW raiding on high difficulty. Stop pretending it is.

There's a difference in what the difficulty is, if you are able to read you would've noticed i pointed that out on the previous page.

WoW players getting butthurt as usual.

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Which of these is your reason for defending attunements regarding complete strangers?

1) You feel that people don't deserve to be in raid. They need to earn their place.
2) You are trying to protect them from themselves.
3) You don't want useless people in your raid.

I won't bother with 1 but if your choice is 2 then you may as well support banning of alcohol, smoking and even red meat. Hell, throw driving cars on the band wagon too because all of those are far worse than letting a person into a raid. If your choice is 3 then you are welcome to attach some requirements to your raid group. They could make the whole attunment an achievement called "Capable of raiding, 70's style" and you could make sure they have the achievement before letting them join.

So which is it?

None of the above.

It is to make it so the experience of raiding is enjoyable for all parties involved without needing to cater to the lowest possible denominator.
To preserve a natural progression curve, it's to take the requirements of what is needed out of the hands of players as most clearly can't determine that and back into the hands of developers by content. It also gives developers a more clearer indication of what their player base can handle.

The person willing to raid gets the required experience before the raid and the raid group gets the minimal experienced person. Despite population issues recruiting in wildstar was easier, since a person either needing to complete their final attunement parts or fully attuned at least met the minimal requirements.

I take no offense on exclusive created content even if i can't partake in it myself, unlike others.

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Think they are seriously looking at LFR, so your number 3 will have a home, really hope it's like the level 10 tutorial dungeon! That will give players a chance to learn more about things.

Any new to the thread and thinking of playing once it goes F2P ? Then check out today's ( 18:00 GMT )

Last time i checked it is more likely to see duo 'dungeons' than lfr raids. If we go based on developer quotes, i have no clue where you are pulling the lfr from other than pure baseless speculation bring up some citations at least if you want to argue that.

[Coldkil]

Think they are seriously looking at LFR

Tbh i don't like the "let's water down stuff so more players can complete the dungeon" thing. Given the innately chaotic W* combat syatem (i'm not saying it's a mess, but with a lot of telegraphs on the ground it can become messy).

If anything, if they want to put "story mode" in W* i'd prefer a scaled version of raids, made for 5 people so you get both accessibilty and make them easier (a lot of stuff is much more dangerous when you're in many people), while people still needs to play properly to do them (interrupts/personal movements).

I wouldn't like a LFR is the style WoW has brought - there's too much "i can stay afk the entire time since there will be someone doing the stuff for me".

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Last time i checked it is more likely to see duo 'dungeons' than lfr raids. If we go based on developer quotes, i have no clue where you are pulling the lfr from other than pure baseless speculation bring up some citations at least if you want to argue that.

Duo dungeons would be cool. I'm all for small groups content (while keeping the current big groups content, there are no issues with that imho).

[Deleted]

Last time i checked it is more likely to see duo 'dungeons' than lfr raids. If we go based on developer quotes, i have no clue where you are pulling the lfr from other than pure baseless speculation bring up some citations at least if you want to argue that.

If you had been playing the game and keeping up to speed with the forums, you would have seen TT asking players for their thoughts on how to best implement LFR into Wildstar! Seeing he is the lead raid designer, I think I was safe to say Carbine are seriously looking into LFR.

[Marston]

If you had been playing the game and keeping up to speed with the forums, you would have seen TT asking players for their thoughts on how to best implement LFR into Wildstar! Seeing he is the lead raid designer, I think I was safe to say Carbine are seriously looking into LFR.

And that doesn't have to be a bad thing, depending on how they implement it. Could also be limited to 10 people, easier (but still harder than dungeons) and completely new zones. Could also be similar to WoW. Could also be something completely different. We don't know yet.

Also, instead of duo dungeons I would like see more Shiphands or Expexditions or something similar that scales from 1-5 people. Maybe let bosses drop more loot and gain new mechanics with more people available.

[Tekkommo]

LFR is only a bad thing if it takes too much development time.

[Deleted]

This was one of his posts

Timetravel

Carbine Studios Staff
Posted 31 March 2015 - 07:06 PM
Next Developer Post »
I'm curious: For folks in favor of LFR, what are you looking for?
Very low barrier to entry (ie, forgiving difficulty, limited time investment, minimal organizational requirements) large-group content
What would you view as a reasonable "limited time investment"?
Which of those three is the largest turn-off to you? (difficulty, time, or organization)
Pass to see the lore and story and characters in the raid zones. Or, well, do you want to *specifically* see Genetic Archives and Datascape (and Initialization Core Y-83 soon!) or simply any [some cool zone] that scratches the itch of content at the suggested difficulty level?
Raid-quality loot

[zito]

LFR could work, they could pull a rift and let it offer no loot. Just a "I got to see the content" sort of thing

[Deleted]

WildStar raiding is not about killing the boss before enrage timer happens, it is all about surviving until the end. KNOWING that there is red doesn't help you DODGE it.

Mainly wildstar raiding is about costing the raid design 2,600$ per raider, as it only adresses a few (#hardcore). All the other customers may pay that parasitism then.

Organized raiders are parasites in wildstar, they suck their blood from the veins of the content of those who pay the game but never see endgame raids.

No wonder the game suffers. If it needs 1000 players to pay one raider.

For me, there are only two viable solutions for Wildstar to handle raiding:

1.) Get rid of it

or

2.) Make it accessible to anyone

I really would love to see Wildstar to be an alternative to World of Warcraft. But it wont become that if it needs thousand of players to carry a few that demand exclusive content.

[Coldkil]

If LFR ships as a "clone" of WoW setup, then i wouldn't like it much and i don't think it would work well in W*. I don't want a 25 man zergfest.

Less people needed makes things easier both about fight mechanics and organization, and they have proven they can make compelling content even for solo (veteran shiphands). No need to make a "let's all queue to this dungeon and spam abilities until stuff is dead".

Also: if LFR provides loot (and it needs to provide seomthing better than current small group content otherwise no reason to do it like it happened with old crafted gear and dungeons) it should provide an adequate challenge.