[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

This may sound weird, but sometimes when playing MMOs i set my own achievements and goals, which almost always coincide with some form of reward in game, but not all the time. And that can sometimes feel as rewarding as hearing the sound of an achievement pop, like "Hey, fuck it, i did that, i said i would and i did it." Back when WoW didn't have achievements people felt they were progressing in something regardless of if it included Character Power or not.

I use to do that too

During an arathi basin weekend I would aim for 1000 hk in a day back when I will still grinding for my tabard of arathor in vanilla.

[Deleted]

The intentions wasn't to invaldiated gear progression. Merely to highlight the issue it presents, which is that gating content behind a completely different kind of content isn't a good idea. Also, you forgot about leveling. Why is leveling mandatory? You alienate everyone who doesn't like leveling but might enjoy arenas, rbgs, raids, heroic dungeons, challenge mode, ect.

If it wasnt mandatory almost no one would do it after the first time, why put in effort when you dont need to. Kinda like how people are mostly running 10 mans instead of 25 these days, easiest road is the one people will take, which leads to a huge part of content being wasted. Leveling keeps player playing the game. Back in the days it took a very long time to level, if you would have removed that from being mandatory you remove a huge part of the game. If people want to focus on one thing only and ignore the rest, play another game, simple as that.

[RoninaThorstone]

If it wasnt mandatory almost no one would do it after the first time, why put in effort when you dont need to. Kinda like how people are mostly running 10 mans instead of 25 these days, easiest road is the one people will take, which leads to a huge part of content being wasted. Leveling keeps player playing the game. Back in the days it took a very long time to level, if you would have removed that from being mandatory you remove a huge part of the game. If people want to focus on one thing only and ignore the rest, play another game, simple as that.

So the objective is to make people play content they don't find fun?

Again, if you are content with that, then great. I just don't see why you would be.

I did my best to complete every quest in WoW, practically did around the time wotlk launched. I even thought about doing it again in Cata but I quit very early on. So, there are people who like questing for questings sake.

They would do it if you structured it the right way like by doing what EQN does with the 1 character 40 classes thing, firefall and the 1 character 16 frames, or final fantasy 14 and the 1 character lots of classes thing so they would be playing through the story once.

or you could make quests repeatable with time trials and efficency and damage taken vs damage recieved like defiances quests that have leaderboards and you could have rankings for each quest and the goal would be to master questing. (like the Wyrmsrest, complete quest in under 2 minutes achievement. You know, before increased the time needed to get the achievement)

So there would be a sort of "questing end game" along with "arena end game" and "battleground end game" and "dungeon end game" and "raiding end game" and "group questing end game".

There no reason to create a player hierarchy where it's like, the raids get the best gear, the dungeon player the second best, and the questers get GREENS! (another problem with gear) Esp if you can make the difficulty for all the types of content relatively equal (granted, you would have to make it an semi action game a little like wildstar or full action game like Tera for solo end game to be meaningful).

But again, if you are content with a sort of "In order to do things that you want to do and are paying for you must first complete this content you don't want to play!" design then great. There's plenty of games that do that.

[Deleted]

So the objective is to make people play content they don't find fun?

Again, if you are content with that, then great. I just don't see why you would be.

I did my best to complete every quest in WoW, practically did around the time wotlk launched. I even thought about doing it again in Cata but I quit very early on. So, there are people who like questing for questings sake.

They would do it if you structured it the right way like by doing what EQN does with the 1 character 40 classes thing or firefall and the 1 character 16 frames thing so they would be playing through the story once.

or you could make quests repeatable with time trials and efficency and damage taken vs damage recieved like defiances quests that have leaderboards so you could have rankings for each quest and the goal would be to master questing.

So there would be a sort of "questing end game" along with "arena end game" and "battleground end game" and "dungeon end game" and "raiding end game" and "group questing end game".

There no reason to create a player hierarchy where it's like, the raids get the best gear, the dungeon player the second best, and the questers get GREENS! (another problem with gear) Esp if you can make the difficulty for all the types of content relatively equal (granted, you would have to make it an semi action game a little like wildstar or full action game like Tera for solo end game to be meaningful).

But again, if you are content with a sort of "In order to do things that you want to do and are paying for you must first complete this content you don't want to play!" design then great. There's plenty of games that do that.

If you need to do certain content before you get to do something you really want, you will do it anyway. Would you still do all the quests if the loremaster title wasnt there? Or all the shit you needed to do for the insane one? I think not. So if they added that title for everyone after all the "but why do i have to do all that boring shit to get the title, i want it anyway", i guess you would still run Dire maul, how many times was it now?

There is a reason to create the hiearchy, othervise no one would do the content that requires more effort. And more players = harder in most cases, since it requires more communication and timing to pull it off. That is if content is created in a correct way. But i guess you do not seem to get that the more effort you put in, the greater the reward should be.

Yeah, this game will do that, which is great.

[RoninaThorstone]

There is a reason to create the hiearchy, othervise no one would do the content that requires more effort. And more players = harder in most cases, since it requires more communication and timing to pull it off. That is if content is created in a correct way. But i guess you do not seem to get that the more effort you put in, the greater the reward should be.

Yeah, this game will do that, which is great.

Did you not catch the

There no reason to create a player hierarchy where it's like, the raids get the best gear, the dungeon player the second best, and the questers get GREENS! (another problem with gear) Esp if you can make the difficulty for all the types of content relatively equal (granted, you would have to make it an semi action game a little like wildstar or full action game like Tera for solo end game to be meaningful).

[Deleted]

Did you not catch the

So you will need to to be able to scale every single content out there, othervise hardcores and baddies wont be able to exist in the same game. That sounds like a really really bad idea to me. Like having supereasy, easy, normal, harder, even harder ,hardest, harder than hardest. I dislike even having normal and heroic of the same stuff.

[RoninaThorstone]

So you will need to to be able to scale every single content out there, othervise hardcores and baddies wont be able to exist in the same game. That sounds like a really really bad idea to me. Like having supereasy, easy, normal, harder, even harder ,hardest, harder than hardest. I dislike even having normal and heroic of the same stuff.

: l

Why are you even posting this? Go look at the OP about this topic. It was addressed already.

[Deleted]

: l

Why are you even posting this? Go look at the OP about this topic. It was addressed already.

Since it is a single thread about a whole game, im not going to read every single of these 483 pages.

[RoninaThorstone]

Since it is a single thread about a whole game, im not going to read every single of these 483 pages.

I suspect I am the only one on this forum who thinks this way but, I really wish MMOs would trend away from this. Instead focus on making achievements and cosmetics from achievements the main form of reward.

For example, let's say there was, in addition to normal and heroic a master mode for Deadmines in WoW. Each boss would have an achievement and a few other achievements throughout the instance for each difficulty. There would be a meta achievement for the dungeon and its separate difficulties as well. Boss achievements would get you each a part of a costume, defias bandit, defias pirate, and finally vanclef armor. The meta would get you the helm for each set and a title. How you choose to look would broadcast what you have done. I mean, I would remove traditional leveling all together and have a statless level system where achievement points act as exp. So a level 90 would be like someone with 95% of all the achievements in the game complete and would have no advantages over a new player. I mean, I guess you could customize your build and stats but everything would be a +10 X / -10 Y sort of deal.

Rant, I know, but as it relates to wildstar, they are going to have competitive raiding with weekly boards. Gear always seems to fly in the face of true competition. /shrug

It's baffling to me that you don't remember since you were one of the people who responded

Yeah remove the gear progression and there wont be anyone left for that competitive raiding. A lot of people want rewards that make your character stronger, not a pet or a costume.

If Wildstar is targeting the old Wow crowd, this is the opposite of the direction they should be heading.

*Hell, Rift has 3 difficulties and Vindictus has 4 (at least, I haven't checked lately. Nothing like watching a lann square off with a desert giant (1vraidboss). Very attack on titan)

[RoninaThorstone]

I thought we already had this in WoW with challenge modes. Seems like no one I know does those anymore, either.

Not surprising. Challenge modes conflict with the rest of the games design, so the likilihood that you are playing still playing WoW after 90 levels and maybe a few years and would enjoy challenge modes is probably pretty low. I nearly came back when I read about challenge modes, they match my preferences

[Darksoldierr]

Not surprising. Challenge modes conflict with the rest of the games design, so the likilihood that you are playing still playing WoW after 90 levels and maybe a few years and would enjoy challenge modes is probably pretty low. I nearly came back when I read about challenge modes, they match my preferences

Meanwhile at the Blizzard HQ : "Dammit, so close."

[jearle]

. And more players = harder in most cases, since it requires more communication and timing to pull it off. That is if content is created in a correct way.

More players does not necessarily equal harder content. It simply adds an extra layer of organization and finding players to fill spots that adds difficulty to the act of raiding.

40 player content is going to be EXTREMELY hard to tune correctly. And frankly it kind of scares me, its either going to be faceroll easy where any 40 monkeys can down bosses or incredibly difficult where class stacking will be the norm.

I don't mind the idea of 40 man raids, but personally I hope that they go the route of WoW and make them a tack on to the end game content and not what they are going to put all of their resources into.

WoW does great with 10 and 25 player modes, so far it looks like Wildstar is going with 20 and 40 mans. It will be interesting to see what they come up with for their raiding.

Technically they could just throw in World Bosses (ala WoW) and technically this would be 40 man raid content. I use to lead 80 man raids in Everquest with no voice chat and barely any in game tools it felt epic but I wouldnt say it was extremely difficult. 40 mans in WoW were great with a disciplined group, but those that werent, you were always waiting for someone to come back from afk or some other BS and was just terrible.

If they do put effort into developing solid 40 man raid content I hope they develop it around needing more tanks and healers than traditional content. 5 Tanks required for 40 mans would be awesome, with each of them off doing their own job.

[Gunther]

As much I am excited for this game, I am having a hard time justifying some of the combat mechanics the developers are showing. Few videos from Wildstar show area target attacks and area of effect damage ( red circles) are being shown as game changing and new concepts. This isn't new guys and shouldn't be advertised as heavily as Carbine studios is doing, I hope more information on the combat mechanics comes out as there isn't much to go on.

[Stormkhan]

As much I am excited for this game, I am having a hard time justifying some of the combat mechanics the developers are showing. Few videos from Wildstar show area target attacks and area of effect damage ( red circles) are being shown as game changing and new concepts. This isn't new guys and shouldn't be advertised as heavily as Carbine studios is doing, I hope more information on the combat mechanics comes out as there isn't much to go on.

Agree heavily. I think the more the game is being delayed (also in terms of information being given out), the more I`m focusing on EQNext Landmark D: and possibly the next WoW expansion 2015.

[jearle]

As much I am excited for this game, I am having a hard time justifying some of the combat mechanics the developers are showing. Few videos from Wildstar show area target attacks and area of effect damage ( red circles) are being shown as game changing and new concepts. This isn't new guys and shouldn't be advertised as heavily as Carbine studios is doing, I hope more information on the combat mechanics comes out as there isn't much to go on.

TBF some of the stuff they are releasing is pretty unique, nothing actually game changing but the small things they are showing about the combat has me intrigued, varied combat between tab targeted and aimed abilities, the CC mechanism, ability mechanics ect. You can't fault their marketing team for trying to make this sound as awesome as possible.

and possibly the next WoW expansion 2015.

If WoW next xpac takes this long they are going to be hurting for subs, big time.


On another note, reading the Wildstar forums is pretty depressing, it reminds me of the TOR forums pre-launch a little bit, which scares me. Posters are sold that this game will be the next MMO messiah. I just want a decent game to spend some time in, not looking for the "perfect" game.

[Edge-]

On another note, reading the Wildstar forums is pretty depressing, it reminds me of the TOR forums pre-launch a little bit, which scares me. Posters are sold that this game will be the next MMO messiah. I just want a decent game to spend some time in, not looking for the "perfect" game.

Yeah, I've been staying away from official WildStar stuff because they are acting exactly like the WAR/SWTOR communities before each of those games launched.

They really need to do some work with expectation management. Unreasonable expectations have done as much to hurt MMO's at launch as server woes or gameplay problems, because no developer wants to reign in peoples hype a bit. That leads to disappointment as the game isn't able to live up to peoples unreasonable expectations.

[Viscoe]

Is Carbine supposed to come out and go "HEY WAIT STOP NO STOP HYPING BAD, BAD FANS" and hit them with a newspaper?

I mean like.. what could be a solution for people overhyping other than their friends telling them to calm down?

I wouldn't expect any game studio/company/publisher to come out and go "Please stop being excited for our game. You're going to get too excited and then you'll realize it wasn't that great after all."

[Valeron]

Is Carbine supposed to come out and go "HEY WAIT STOP NO STOP HYPING BAD, BAD FANS" and hit them with a newspaper?

I mean like.. what could be a solution for people overhyping other than their friends telling them to calm down?

I wouldn't expect any game studio/company/publisher to come out and go "Please stop being excited for our game. You're going to get too excited and then you'll realize it wasn't that great after all."

Indeed. It's not up to the developers to manage the customers expectations. Plus they are trying to sell the game and downplaying the game does you no favors. Just like when you are applying for a job, you cannot be humble.

[Kelimbror]

On another note, reading the Wildstar forums is pretty depressing, it reminds me of the TOR forums pre-launch a little bit, which scares me. Posters are sold that this game will be the next MMO messiah. I just want a decent game to spend some time in, not looking for the "perfect" game.

The worst part is that their community developed this mentality instantly. I remember posting on WSC back in Feb. In a thread regarding the payment model there was the highest level of ignorance I could ever imagine.

I was basically tarred and feathered for daring to say that it would likely be better for the game overall if it was B2P/F2P with a subscription option. The same cliche and vitriol kept getting repeated that all games without subs are bad and just haven't earned it, but THIS ONE WILL BE SOOOOO DIFFERENT.

Between that community and watching the people defending FFXIV (which I love to play btw)....yeah. I'm starting to wonder if the reason 60% of MMO players are solo is because we all hate just about everyone else who doesn't share our opinion. I sure don't want to do anything with most people I read on the forums if they can't even see me say "I love x game, but I wish y feature was different' without telling me I'm wrong, I'm stupid, and that this game was birthed of a unicorn and an angel, raised by a majestic swan under the golden sun of Rivendell's mountain streams.

You think I'm kidding, but that's the level of ridiculous these people go to in assaulting every single criticism with their games. It's...disgusting really.

- - - Updated - - -

Is Carbine supposed to come out and go "HEY WAIT STOP NO STOP HYPING BAD, BAD FANS" and hit them with a newspaper?

No, but they should probably not try and find the slimmest line to traipse around lying in order to determine how to market their game.

[Edge-]

Indeed. It's not up to the developers to manage the customers expectations.

It's up to their community/communications teams.

Seriously, I've worked doing communications (PR) for some games in the past and not working to manage expectations through better communication and identifying key points where people are blowing things out of proportion has led to some problems for the games at launch. It's the games where we were given the leeway to actively work to keep expectations reasonable without negatively impacting the messaging within the game that we had the best reactions to at launch.

You can do what teams who worked on games like SWTOR or WAR did, and let hype spiral to impossible levels, not doing anything to bring people back to reality. But all that did was lead to a huge crash when both games launched and could never meet fans impossible expectations. Had they done some management of community expectations/hype, people wouldn't have reacted quite as negatively to the flaws within the games at launch.