1. #1

    A Minor Thought On Holy Wrath In Terms Of Ret PvP-Viability

    the potential of ret revamp (esp. sustained damage) is widescreen underestimated. the retirement-agenda most rets developed in x-pacs of agony is understable, like Vanguard quitting ret for enh in 6.1. but also potentially blinding:

    if ret in opposing team: tunnel ret, gg.
    Holy Wrath is close to an all-inclusive policy vs not exclusivly melee-trainz, cuz bubble (also) not dispellable anylonger.
    Holy Wrath is a nuke, possibly the mightiest offensive cd in game: 40-50% health 4 enemies 10yrds.

    mobility is an issue now, but was it prior to 7.0 when ret sucked blockbuster?

    sustained damage+anti-tunnel-nuke, hm?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Lyons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    UK.
    Posts
    102
    Have you tried actually doing that sustain damage vs any class that knows how to kite?

    Have you tried getting Holy Wrath off on targets that know to watch out for it and kite/cc or pop a CD when the Ret drops low?

    Have you tried the far superior sustained damage most other melee have? Have you noticed that all Ret defensive utility besides Bubble is dispel able/stealable and therefore worthless in any decent rated setting?

    I am convinced Ret will be worse than it has been in quite some time. The total loss of ranged damage, slow removal and mobility has killed the spec in competitive as far as I can see.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z022gkNfSeM

    Aveng set out a pretty good list of our problems.

  3. #3
    qed.
    agenda, cuz Aveng explicitly states ret doesnt need any dps increase. so sustained damage isnt issue compared to other classes.

    there r 2 rated scenarios:

    rbg mobility is secondary (even with pre-7.0 toolkit, there r better FCs), ret has to stick with pack - works fine. actually iam always top of the pops, but thats just personal experience, cuz i know how to TEAMPLAY.

    arena is where mobility issue forces to rethink traditional behavior patterns, ret has to play far more tactical with LoS. like Savix vs those bodybuilders (mage).

    mobility is an issue now, but was it prior to 7.0 when ret sucked blockbuster?

    ofc Holy Wraht is counterable, but every move should be, hm? again - revamp forces to revamp tactix.
    btw is Divine Shield again the most powerful def-cd ingame, now without 50% damage redux. BoP isnt dispellable also.

    sry, but the result of mentioned agenda is pessimism close to ignorance. major issues got worked, iam optimistic how this revamp will perform with Honor Talents and maxed Ferrari.

  4. #4
    Banned Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pleasure Planet
    Posts
    2,488
    HoP is undispellable? Huh?

    What about HoF, SoV and bosanc, then?

    What about no choice choices? what about not working talents, not interacting talents and abilities?
    What about very greater blessings?
    What about not viable talents? What about literally the whole ashbringer grid being shite?

  5. #5
    Blade of Justice is 20 yard range, sure its not old judgement range but its pretty nice. And when we get the PvP talents will apply 3 seconds of hindrance if you spec for it. It makes it pretty damn nice to me.

  6. #6
    Banned Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pleasure Planet
    Posts
    2,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Tortillagirl View Post
    Blade of Justice is 20 yard range, sure its not old judgement range but its pretty nice. And when we get the PvP talents will apply 3 seconds of hindrance if you spec for it. It makes it pretty damn nice to me.
    It's 12 yards, not 20.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Lyons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    UK.
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenging Wrath View Post
    qed.
    agenda, cuz Aveng explicitly states ret doesnt need any dps increase. so sustained damage isnt issue compared to other classes.

    there r 2 rated scenarios:

    rbg mobility is secondary (even with pre-7.0 toolkit, there r better FCs), ret has to stick with pack - works fine. actually iam always top of the pops, but thats just personal experience, cuz i know how to TEAMPLAY.

    arena is where mobility issue forces to rethink traditional behavior patterns, ret has to play far more tactical with LoS. like Savix vs those bodybuilders (mage).

    mobility is an issue now, but was it prior to 7.0 when ret sucked blockbuster?

    ofc Holy Wraht is counterable, but every move should be, hm? again - revamp forces to revamp tactix.
    btw is Divine Shield again the most powerful def-cd ingame, now without 50% damage redux. BoP isnt dispellable also.

    sry, but the result of mentioned agenda is pessimism close to ignorance. major issues got worked, iam optimistic how this revamp will perform with Honor Talents and maxed Ferrari.
    What I mean is that our sustained damage is comparable to most of the other melee, except they have far greater uptime and offensive utility, meaning our damage is less attractive.

    I'll have to just say off the bat that I don't really care about RBG's just like I never cared about 5v5. As far as I'm concerned those areas of the game were largely just aoe/multidot clusters and have very little elegance of play so I have very rarely bothered with them, 2v2 and 3v3 is what I care about. Ret will probably be better than it has been in RBG's, though why you would waste a spot on one over a Deathknight I don't know.

    Mobility issues does not cause us to rethink our behaviour, since we have always had mobility issues, they just made them worse. We have always tried to kite behind pillars to heal up, but our ability to do that is very hampered now with no baseline instant heals and a very small mana pool, in addition to not being able to sprint round corners with Long Arm of the Law to avoid damage, or remove our slows with Emancipate. Nor can we pop out, generate holypower from ranged and back off to heal.

    I am not pessimistic, I am realistic. It's a hell of a lot better than when I was playing it during Alpha, but it has a long way to go before it is a good spec.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyons View Post
    2v2 and 3v3 is what I care about.

    sry 4 late bump, was on vac.
    gotcha, thats what qed is 4, me fooled u (:D) :
    Aveng explicitly stated ret is "pretty good" in duel + arena, better than ever. maybe u watch it again (with focus), just to update ur "realism"

    Holy Wrath 200-250k...

    ur perception on ret mobility issues prior 7.0 is somewhat...subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    (rephrased) itz da most ugliest ret tree ever
    180% agree

    but r these issues comparable 2 missing sustained damage and trainz?

    btw: i just dont get kited somewhat, neither mage, nor hunter, sometimes damagestop till 5% health, 4 a HW one-shot :D rethinking behavior patterns...

  9. #9
    High Overlord Lyons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    UK.
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenging Wrath View Post
    sry 4 late bump, was on vac.
    gotcha, thats what qed is 4, me fooled u () :
    Aveng explicitly stated ret is "pretty good" in duel + arena, better than ever. maybe u watch it again (with focus), just to update ur "realism"

    Holy Wrath 200-250k...

    ur perception on ret mobility issues prior 7.0 is somewhat...subjective.



    180% agree

    but r these issues comparable 2 missing sustained damage and trainz?

    btw: i just dont get kited somewhat, neither mage, nor hunter, sometimes damagestop till 5% health, 4 a HW one-shot rethinking behavior patterns...
    Holy Wrath does nothing against competent players, absolutely nothing, good players have already adjusted for playing around it. You will very rarely take it over Divine Purpose in rated arena, it only seems good at the moment because everything is double dps skirmish, and ofc a gimmicky oneshot button excels in that environment.

    Wait until it goes back to ww/healer, hunter/healer, mage healer....then see how useful Holy Wrath is.

    As for mobility issues prior to 7.0, you call my view subjective, yet I'm sure most long term Ret's would agree that gapclosing has ALWAYS been one of the specs shortcomings. It was somewhat mitigated before with ranged attacks and sprints, but it has never been as good as most of the other melee. Certainly it was one of the specs weaknesses.

    The spec has consistently been one of the least represented in high end everything, despite being the most popular spec in the game. So more people play it, but less people can manage anything with it, there are reasons for that, and mobility is one of them.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyons View Post
    The spec has consistently been one of the least represented in high end everything, despite being the most popular spec in the game. So more people play it, but less people can manage anything with it, there are reasons for that, and mobility is one of them.
    180% agree

    but y`know, thats y an agenda seems likely. itz not our first rodeo :D, and despite the ugliest ret tree, the most stupid movement ever, revamp has potential. which i use successfully in an environment, most "pros" judge ret as underperforming? (which is somehwat subjective, 2)
    many of Avengs suggestion r right, as the comms r, but most pl r not even trying to rethink (outdated) tactical patterns.

    to counter HW will be challenging at least due to bubble, also DP+JV (heal, which is the worse choice imo) ret has more rated potential than ever?

    btw - DH is underperforming massively, MW is just disappointingly easy to own

  11. #11
    Banned Storm the Sorrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pleasure Planet
    Posts
    2,488
    DI+Equalolity is a onetrick pony's route.

    DP+JV, on the other hand, provides tremendous sustainability and brust(if you connect somehow, that is).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •