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  1. #1

    [HOLY] Fix my Heals!

    Fix my Heals!

    What this thread for:

    • To help people who have put forth the effort into learning their class/spec and want to see how and where they may be going wrong when not getting the numbers you want. If you cant, on your own, figure out what more needs to be done, and want some "expert" opinions this is the place is for you!
    • Players with experience will be here to help you and explain what's going wrong and where. This is not to flame or make fun of people, if you do that "You're gonna have a bad time".
    • To learn and see, by example, where other Paladins have been falling short, and to use this information and help you further!


    Before you post!:

    Go over the stickied threads and other resources!
    [MoP] Holy Paladin Guide 5.0

    And other resources your fellow posters have put effort into providing you!


    How to post:


    This is a big part in helping you out. The more (relevant) information you give us, the better we will be able to serve you! This includes:
    • Your Armory
    • World of Logs or Warcraft Logs or any other parses you have from the fights.
    • Fights you're struggling to perform on
    • Your spec/glyphs for each individual fight you post questions for IF different than what's on your armory. You can use WoWhead's talent calculator for this!
    • Any information on why you think you might be having a problem. Highlight your rotation, CD usage, and any other information you think will help it. The more details and the more specific you are, the better!

    Once you have all that information compiled, fill this out with any


    HTML Code:
    [B]Armory Link:[/B]
    [B]Alternate Specs/Glyphs:[/B]
    [B]Worldoflogs Link:[/B]
    [B]Questions, concerns, expectations:[/B]
    [B]Description of Playstyle:[/B]


    Anything outside of what's there feel free to post in a freeform style below that. PLEASE use the template though for sake of ease.


    What not to post:

    • Logs bragging about how awesome you are. These will be removed. This is to help people, not flex your epeen. Want to show off? Show off with how smart you are and help others out!
    • Flaming, and hate. This will NOT be tolerated in any form. You're here to help people, not degrade people. If you flame and hate on people though, "You're gonna have a bad time"
    • Questions about HOW to gear, HOW to spec, HOW to reforge. Utilize the other tools on the forum to figure out the answers to these questions. If you can't find it, feel free to post in the utility threads and ask!

    IF YOU ARE RESPONDING!

    Make sure to address the person by name when you post! This will help prevent confusion and any mixups that might be had.

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    Finally:

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    All threads which fit into this type will be merged into here from now on, and this will remain a "timeless" thread.

    (Thank you for fixing this up, Krekko!)
    Last edited by Lucyrotten; 2014-12-16 at 10:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Could you tell me if I'm doing anything glaringly wrong?

    Armory
    H Ko'ragh wipe.

    Ko'ragh in particular I'm not pulling what I think I could (I pull nearly 10k hps more on HButcher), which is a problem because my raid keeps dying to slow environmental damage.

    Should I be using SS so I can cast more LoD? Holy Avenger better than Sanctified Wrath? Should I consider Merciful Wrath? My EF uptime was 78%; should I be aiming at better uptime?

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Caain; 2014-12-14 at 11:04 PM. Reason: clarity

  3. #3
    You're not swapping beacons, why glyph it? Glyph Flash, imo.
    Drop some Haste. It is kind of trashy atm. I personally am going more into crit > mastery >>>>>--over that-a-way---->>>>>>>> haste

    Little things you could change, sure. I think your other healers are not pulling their weight being the damage is going to be AoE. They wouldn't be trashing your HPS, but I could see another 10k out of each, comparing to what I am seeing on WarcraftLogs.
    Excellence, completed by Shyama!

  4. #4
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A4gnus/simple

    Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X64rvNFgD7VTQ3aB

    Hello guys, just came back to play at this expantion and my guild uses uses Warcraft Logs. I don't know how to read them properly to asset my healing performance; also, I'm pretty sure that I'm having some problems with Holy Prism and have minor issues about efficiency. I appreciate any advice you can give me and Thank you in advance.
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  5. #5
    Hi, I've returned to wow after 6 months and am a bit confused about all the changes to healing. Was playing holy paladin last in SoO (ex-hc), but then made a lock cause I got bored of healing. Now I had to reroll because we lack healers in the guild and for the sake of testing I asked to have 1 shot in healing on Imperator hc last night.
    At that time I was 620ilvl with my holy paladin bcs I dinged like 4 hours before raid. What happened in raid left everyone speechless and needless to say my paly got promoted to full time raider asap. After a few pulls I've kept ending up top with 25-27k hps. We were 4 man healing, holy paladin, holy priest, resto druid and resto shaman. They're all 645+ so I wanted to ask if paladins are so damn OP or if I did something exceptionally good. Atm I'm not sure at all how much should I be able to pull.
    Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Palyboo/simple
    Would link logs but we didn't have them on at the time.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by favor98 View Post
    Hi, I've returned to wow after 6 months and am a bit confused about all the changes to healing. Was playing holy paladin last in SoO (ex-hc), but then made a lock cause I got bored of healing. Now I had to reroll because we lack healers in the guild and for the sake of testing I asked to have 1 shot in healing on Imperator hc last night.
    At that time I was 620ilvl with my holy paladin bcs I dinged like 4 hours before raid. What happened in raid left everyone speechless and needless to say my paly got promoted to full time raider asap. After a few pulls I've kept ending up top with 25-27k hps. We were 4 man healing, holy paladin, holy priest, resto druid and resto shaman. They're all 645+ so I wanted to ask if paladins are so damn OP or if I did something exceptionally good. Atm I'm not sure at all how much should I be able to pull.
    Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Palyboo/simple
    Would link logs but we didn't have them on at the time.
    25-27k is about average. can't tell you too much without logs but probably what made you so high was all the spirit on your gear. Imp has a history of running healers oom by the end of the fight and failing to mana issues. Also the damage is similar to Garrosh in that it's more bursty unless you have people eating mines so throughput healers lag behind.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquilesmagno View Post
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A4gnus/simple

    Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X64rvNFgD7VTQ3aB

    Hello guys, just came back to play at this expantion and my guild uses uses Warcraft Logs. I don't know how to read them properly to asset my healing performance; also, I'm pretty sure that I'm having some problems with Holy Prism and have minor issues about efficiency. I appreciate any advice you can give me and Thank you in advance.
    Your armory link seems to be getting a 404 error. Unable to view stat priority/ilvl so info is limited.

    Your logs look good though. The main thing I am seeing is that you guys are bringing 7 healers. Even with 30m, 7 is overkill. Your prism usage seems ok but that could be due to overhealing the encounters and not getting as much out of it as one would like. Just make sure you know you DO NOT have to use it on CD, you can wait for the next damage spike before you cast.

    When you say efficiency, do you mean mana efficiency or Holy Prism usage efficiency? I slightly addressed HP efficiency above but if you meant mana efficiency, it will depend on your gear and length of fight in your case. Your spell usage appears to fine, no over use of Flash/HR and you aren't specced SS which will be your main culprits of mana burn. As long as you are bringing mana/channeled mana pots to every fight, there isn't much more you can do. Your fights are just lasting a long time and naturally you are going to end up on fumes.

    You look good bud, I am sure you will see better numbers in mythic. Good luck.

    Amazing sig compliments of Alyajna!

  8. #8
    Armory link corrected: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A4gnus/simple

    ilvl: 651 equiped

    We tried twins M last night, 4 healers, I was doing 40k hps average but no kill, is it good or I'm lacking?
    IM TEH RET! er... teh holy... or it was teh prot?!
    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  9. #9
    I'm struggling to perform in comparison with the rest of the healers in the guild on most bosses. I know my "rotation" isn't optimal, often missing out on shocks and prisms at times, and I should switch to another glyph (probably MW) since I dont beacon swap, but I doubt that is the only area I'm messing up on. Could you tell me where else I can improve?

    Character: US - Barthilas, Ashanderei
    Warcraft Logs: pY7fdtxFHr6qWjLz#type=summary&boss=-2
    (sorry I can't post links yet on my account)

    I'd say I'm doing particularly poorly on Tectus and Ogron.

    Thanks so much for helping review this!

  10. #10
    So after my thread here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-(Holy)-Help-(

    I raided 6/7 HC (and Kargath Mythic but I died early) tonight and things seem a little better but another paladin is smashing me with the same ilevel so I was looking for some analysis and tips!

    Also the other paladin (Melanies) is gaining more value from Prism every pull, every fight and am unable to ascertain how.

    Am not sure where i'm going wrong now, things seemed a lot more fluid than last week but still some way off being where I should be.

    Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/C8vHd6Fc39nQ1TZ7
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ormie/advanced

    Thanks in advance.

  11. #11
    To get value from prism you simply have to look at timers and predict damage, also open your eyes and see if melees are in range.

    Also he has close to 10-15% more uptime with wings than you on nearly all the fights, which is probably why he heals more than you. Be more smart with it, dont be afraid to use it and call it out when you pop it so you two dont overlap, just make sure to time it so it's up for when it's really needed.

  12. #12
    Ashanderei, you could fit in many more Holy Prisms and Holy Shocks on most of your fights. HS is worth casting on CD, while Holy Prism you might want to hold for a period of higher damage--but still be liberal with its usage, since its only a 20s CD. Prism represents about a fifth of total hpaladin healing in many fights.

    You also cast very few Holy Flames, which is bad. If you take the talent, you should always be able to keep two 3-HP holy flames rolling on your tanks (especially important on fights like Butcher, split Tectus, and Twins). Aim for 85-95% uptime (you had 45%). If you rather would dump your HP on Light of Dawn, take Sacred Shield instead, and keep that on both tanks.

    IDK if you're running low on mana during long fights, but most hpallys have at least 100 more Spirit than you, and I'm running 300 more. Get a spirit trink, or alternatively enchant your weapon with Shadowmoon. It also looks like you're over-prioritizing Haste. Holybouch.com suggests crit is better than haste in a 5:4 ratio.

    Most important is to use HS on cooldown so that you can generate more HP, which you then turn into more Eternal Flames/Light of Dawns.

  13. #13
    dis needs a bump to the front page, lots of help threads popping up!
    Guild - Twitter - 7/7M Highmaul (US#87) - 10/10M Blackrock Foundry (US#49)

  14. #14
    It won't let me post links so i had to do it this way. I just need some help assessing my performance for a mythic twins kill today, i felt it was sub-par.

    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Morningstar/advanced
    Log: warcraftlogs.com/reports/RQymkGK3NhLrC7YW#type=summary
    Glyphs: Hand of Sacrifice, Divine Protection, Merciful Wrath

    My main job was to heal the tank that was going to pull Phemos away for whirlwind. We used 5-healers and all of them were a higher ilvl, and me being a Paladin the least mobile of the group does mean i wont top their numbers but i still felt that i could have done better.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionmann View Post
    It won't let me post links so i had to do it this way. I just need some help assessing my performance for a mythic twins kill today, i felt it was sub-par.

    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Morningstar/advanced
    Log: warcraftlogs.com/reports/RQymkGK3NhLrC7YW#type=summary
    Glyphs: Hand of Sacrifice, Divine Protection, Merciful Wrath

    My main job was to heal the tank that was going to pull Phemos away for whirlwind. We used 5-healers and all of them were a higher ilvl, and me being a Paladin the least mobile of the group does mean i wont top their numbers but i still felt that i could have done better.
    Doing a quick comparing to our kill that was 12 secs short(we 4 healed)
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ts&source=74,1

    1. # of holy shocks are kinda low, you should be using it alot more on cd then you did you had 53 cast out of a max of 69(not counting procs your 8 enhance holy shock procs)
    2. # of holy prism, you casted 11 out of a max of 20. While you dont want to use this spell right on cd every time you should have more casts then that

    Personally for this fight I like Sacred shield more then eternal flame because it something extra to cast during all the moving you have to do.
    My 10 man 2 nights 6 hours a week raiding guild at 7/7M and 10/10M
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  16. #16
    Keyboard Turner
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    Holy pally

    Hey, Thanks in advance for any help anyone is able to give me on my healing troubles.

    My pally is 665 ilvl, Well high enough to put out the numbers needed in raid but I feel I always fall behind in every fight. I have tried both the SH and EF styles. Higher movement fights i usually fall back to SH, but if I keep tryin to use EF. I know I should be doing way better HPS then what I am now but i cant figure out what my problem is.... Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Play style: When i use EF, i never swap beacons, I don't have too much mana troubles, I almost never heal the beacon targets with my heals so i can get as much out of it as possible, I feel like i'm always casting something, I try and use prism and holy shock on cd and use my Avenging Wrath on CD for the most part.

    I try selfless healer on heavy movement fights since I am the one going up in the crowd for butcher, and twins is constant shit going on lol. But, every other healer in my group always shoots past me and i know i can do better then what i am. Please help .

    Logs: warcraftlogs.com/reports/DqTp3Jfyt4McKmZd
    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Cmil/simple
    Last edited by cmill; 2014-12-21 at 04:47 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by cmill View Post
    Hey, Thanks in advance for any help anyone is able to give me on my healing troubles.

    My pally is 665 ilvl, Well high enough to put out the numbers needed in raid but I feel I always fall behind in every fight. I have tried both the SH and EF styles. Higher movement fights i usually fall back to SH, but if I keep tryin to use EF. I know I should be doing way better HPS then what I am now but i cant figure out what my problem is.... Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Play style: When i use EF, i never swap beacons, I don't have too much mana troubles, I almost never heal the beacon targets with my heals so i can get as much out of it as possible, I feel like i'm always casting something, I try and use prism and holy shock on cd and use my Avenging Wrath on CD for the most part.

    I try selfless healer on heavy movement fights since I am the one going up in the crowd for butcher, and twins is constant shit going on lol. But, every other healer in my group always shoots past me and i know i can do better then what i am. Please help .

    Logs: warcraftlogs.com/reports/DqTp3Jfyt4McKmZd
    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kelthuzad/Cmil/simple
    After looking at your logs what I concluded was that your healing isn't the problem. Your over healing is what makes you look lower on the meters. If you compare the raw throughput then you are solid on second place in output but last in actual healing done. And most of it is purely mechanical. You essentially are forced to snipe through the Discs shields,Druid HoTs and fight with the AoE healing of Shaman with single target spells.

    I personally believe there are 2 paths to take. You try to raise your mastery more for Illuminated Healing which is quite hard with the gear choices we have now or try using Sacred Shield. Sacred Shield can be cast while moving as well and seeing you have high haste and crit but low mastery you potentially should get out more raw healing with changing to it.

    I'm sure there are things you could do with your current play style and gear as well but it requires a bit more understanding of logs than I have.

  18. #18
    Keyboard Turner
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    Ok well that's kinda comforting to see that its not my healing that sucking, its just my ability to snipe heals. Ill give SS a try and see how it preforms this week. Gear here does suck so mastery will be interesting to try and acquire. Maybe i can just work on my sniping or try and talk the RL into dropping to less heals some fights so i can actually get a heal in here or there haha.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Caain View Post
    Ashanderei, you could fit in many more Holy Prisms and Holy Shocks on most of your fights. HS is worth casting on CD, while Holy Prism you might want to hold for a period of higher damage--but still be liberal with its usage, since its only a 20s CD. Prism represents about a fifth of total hpaladin healing in many fights.

    You also cast very few Holy Flames, which is bad. If you take the talent, you should always be able to keep two 3-HP holy flames rolling on your tanks (especially important on fights like Butcher, split Tectus, and Twins). Aim for 85-95% uptime (you had 45%). If you rather would dump your HP on Light of Dawn, take Sacred Shield instead, and keep that on both tanks.

    IDK if you're running low on mana during long fights, but most hpallys have at least 100 more Spirit than you, and I'm running 300 more. Get a spirit trink, or alternatively enchant your weapon with Shadowmoon. It also looks like you're over-prioritizing Haste. Holybouch.com suggests crit is better than haste in a 5:4 ratio.

    Most important is to use HS on cooldown so that you can generate more HP, which you then turn into more Eternal Flames/Light of Dawns.
    Thanks so much for the feedback. I know that I'm doing poorly when it comes to using HS, HP and EF/Lod.

    Are there any addons or UI setups that can help? I'm currently using Shadow Unit Frames with clique and TMW for cds. I find myself spamming HL/FoL when things get hectic and forget/miss the other spells. Is it just a matter of practice and breaking of a bad habit?

  20. #20
    Hello guys!

    I'm not sure if you'll feel great about a PvP question here, but I would be happy to get some help.
    My main problem lies in 3v3 where i prefer to play PHD (Paly, Hunter, Death knight) with my friends.
    I will not ask you about some sort of positioning and things like cc breacks, but about healing itself.

    Let's see it as an easy fight, where I dont get chain cc and am able to heal.
    We face some sort of a high damage cleave with phys dps and a priest as healer... I just cant outheal my hunter...
    Casting all the time can take him from 50% to 80%. After getting a cc I am batling for his life in range from 30-50% after some actions with Bop I may be able to get him up to 50% again, but typicly it just gets dispeled and my mate is geting trained down again.

    Mostly using flashes to burst heal in pair with shocks and a 20sec cd prisma.
    But my heals are mostly enough just to keep him at a level of health, not bringing him up to 100 again to have some space for crit steal, some control and positioning.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/characte...9%D1%82/simple

    Here is my armory, but I dont think that gear is the problem.
    To be honest I just cant get, how to do proper heals with all this cast-feat Blizz gave us this addon...
    Is there something I'm missing ? Some rotation ?

    And sorry again to post in a PVE thread but I'm sure to find here some people who are playing 3v3 in the free time...

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