Furor vs Moonglow

[Deleted]

I recently had a chat with another Resto Druid on our server, who was 100% sure 3/3 Furor, 2/3 Moonglow would benefit him more then 2/3 Furor,3/3 Moonglow. I have always blindly taken the fact that Moonglow beats Furor, but was wondering if there is a point where that 5% mana will beat the 3% reduced mana cost.
In other words, how much mana is needed to make Furor better then Moonglow?

[sarad]

It's more like a fight length issue. the longer the fight goes on (past like 2 or 3 minutes), the more efficient MG proves to be than Furor.

[Blueeagle]

ive never quite done the math to an extreme, but with lifebloom giving % based mana back, having a larger mana pool will lead to higher regen, where as having reduced mana cost, you wont need to regen.
Personally i take 3/3 furor because i enjoy my mana, and quite frankly, as gear scales, just in my opinion, furor will beat out moonglow. As far as im concerned, it was close to beating it in full 359 gear.

[MasterNewbie]

ive never quite done the math to an extreme, but with lifebloom giving % based mana back, having a larger mana pool will lead to higher regen, where as having reduced mana cost, you wont need to regen.
Personally i take 3/3 furor because i enjoy my mana, and quite frankly, as gear scales, just in my opinion, furor will beat out moonglow. As far as im concerned, it was close to beating it in full 359 gear.

The 2T12 bonus, lifebloom returning mana is based on base mana, which is unaffected by furor. 0/3 furor or 3/3 furor, 2T12 will give you the same mana return.

Theorycraft has already shown that moonglow is better than furor per point for regen for the standard raid encounter, your personal opinion doesn't change that.

[tangedyn]

You can check this easily with my Resto Healing Spreadsheet (link in my sig)

Play around with the encounter duration and watch how it affects the value of Moonglow and Furor relative to each other. You'll find that Moonglow will be better than Furor for any encounter with duration > 3 minutes.

[MasterNewbie]

You can check this easily with my Resto Healing Spreadsheet (link in my sig)

Play around with the encounter duration and watch how it affects the value of Moonglow and Furor relative to each other. You'll find that Moonglow will be better than Furor for any encounter with duration > 3 minutes.

I tinkered with it, cranked up the Int to large numbers. For a 6 minute fight, Furor was on par with Moonglow at about 19000 intellect. I didn't mess with the secondaries though, and after adjusting those (there would be ~17.7k worth of secondaries with a boost of 14k int, I put about 3k in spirit, enough haste to make the last WG breakpoint, and split the remaining portion evenly into mastery/crit) the value of furor dropped significantly compared to MG.

Very unrealistic, but with the current implementation of talents it doesn't appear the value of MG will be overtaken by Furor's in a progression raid situation.

Though to be fair, if you kiss dirt often, usually towards the beginning or middle of an encounter, Furor may be better than MG.

[Dendrek]

I did some papernapkin math for Furor to estimate its value assuming the following:

• You have 5900 Int (before Heart of the Wild, Mark of the Wild, and Leather Specialization, and without Flask or Food buff). Raid buffed, that would put you at 7350 Int. Note that this is more int than is available in BiS HM gear (in other words, it's more Int than you could possibly have).
• You use Innervate on CD, and that Replenishment and Revitalize proc as often as they can.
• You cast Innervate when Power Torrent is active, and that Power Torrent procs on CD.

From all that, I arrived at the following mp5 values for Furor:

Mp5 provided by*        2/3 Furor            3/3 Furor
 Innervate              79 mp5               113 mp5
 Revitalize             71 mp5               105 mp5
 Replenishment          112 mp5              169 mp5
Total                   262 mp5              387 mp5

Increased mana pool**
 Over 6 minutes         185 mp5              278 mp5
Total                   447 mp5              665 mp5

* The "mp5 provded by Innervate, Revitalize and Replenishment" values show how much the mana regen from these sources increases by getting 2 or 3 points in Furor.
** The "increased mana pool over 6 minutes" converts the extra mana gained from Furor into mp5. Taking that extra mana provided by Furor and calculating how much regen that would be if that mana were slowly gained over a 6 minute fight produces the resulting mp5 values.


How does that compare to the points put into Moonglow?
That's not an easy question to answer primarily because it's heavily dependent on how often you cast as well as on what you're casting.
But let's consider a few situations:

Mp5 gained by spamming       Every            2/3 Moonglow          3/3 Moonglow
 Rejuvenation                1 sec            1118 mp5              1677 mp5
 Regrowth                    1.3 secs         1505 mp5              2258 mp5
 Nourish                     2.1 secs         266 mp5               399 mp5
 Healing Touch               2.1 secs         799 mp5               1198 mp5

If all you are doing is spamming inexpensive spells (Nourish, Lifebloom and/or Swiftmend) Furor is better. But if that's all you're spamming, then mana isn't an issue at all and your talent choice doesn't matter. However, if you're using any kind of mana-intensive rotation (Healing Touch, Wild Growth, Rejuvenation and/or Regrowth) Moonglow wins by a wide margin.

When mana is an issue, Moonglow will always be better.

[Myrrar]

I did some papernapkin math for Furor to estimate its value assuming the following:

You always rock my world with your number crunching and making it easy to follow for our normal users!! Can I use this for the sticky? I'll give you credit =]

[Dendrek]

Thanks :P
You can use it.

[Siri]

You should also consider that furor increases your initial mana pool. Moonglow is obviously going to be better anyway
but I feel it is nice to pay attention to details. May also want to account for one hymn of hope.

[Leetbeartank]

It's more like a fight length issue. the longer the fight goes on (past like 2 or 3 minutes), the more efficient MG proves to be than Furor.

Not really this... I've always thought right after you use Innervate, Furor is better, but the shorter your Innervate cooldown gets, the better Moonglow is.

[tangedyn]

Going from 94% mana cost to 91% mana cost is about 3.3% increase in efficiency. Going from 115% mana to 110% mana is about 4.5% increase in efficiency.

Mana regen from Int/Spi benefits only Moonglow
Mana regen from Innerviate, Replenishment and Revitalize benefits both Moonglow and Furor.

More than 50% of your MP5 will come from Int/Spi

[Azrael1985]

Awesome maths, all looks clear now!!

Az!

[Romulan1993]

no idea why people go for furor. baffles me.

[Dendrek]

You should also consider that furor increases your initial mana pool. Moonglow is obviously going to be better anyway
but I feel it is nice to pay attention to details. May also want to account for one hymn of hope.

I took your advice in adding the mp5 that a higher initial mana pool is worth. I may consider adding Hymn at some point, but I don't get it myself. It is worth considering, so we'll see.

Myrrar, I changed some of the information in my post. I'd recommend changing the sticky as well.

[Deleted]

Nice maths Dendrek, ty once more :bow:.

[tangedyn]

Hymn of Hope is not going to make a significant dent in Moonglow's lead over Furor.
Yes, for Hymn of Hope, Furor is better than Moonglow, by 4.5% vs 3.3%
But the majority of your mana regen still comes from Int/Spi regen where Furor is worth nothing.