Resolve: a different Diminishing Returns system

[Deleted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndVN1sOoeEg&t=400

The video should start at 6:40. From PAX Prime 2011.

What do you think about such a system to limit crowd-control? Instead of all the crazy and confusing diminishing returns timers to use such a system?

Please don't be a smartass doing direct comparisons, this is about the concept of it.

[Stanton Biston]

I want to wait and see how their system does in the hands of people who aren't mouth-breathing back-peddlers.

I like the theory of the resolve system, though.

[Deleted]

These are two different games. ToR is a simpler game PvP-wise.

Please read the fine print, this isn't about comparing. This is about the "what if" it being in WoW.

[Illana]

I preferred the Age of conan cc system

if you used a stun, depending on the length of the stun and the cooldown it has they would be immune to ALL stuns for a certain amount of time.

for example impact stuns for 2 seconds, the stun "immunity" would be 10 seconds long

kidney shot stuns for 6 second and has a cooldown of 20 seconds, the immunity would be for 30 seconds starting from when the stun is applied

charge stun is 1.5 seconds and has a 14 second cd immunity would be for 10 seconds etc etc

[Darcks]

I preferred the Age of conan cc system

if you used a stun, depending on the length of the stun and the cooldown it has they would be immune to ALL stuns for a certain amount of time.

for example impact stuns for 2 seconds, the stun "immunity" would be 10 seconds long

kidney shot stuns for 6 second and has a cooldown of 20 seconds, the immunity would be for 30 seconds starting from when the stun is applied

charge stun is 1.5 seconds and has a 14 second cd immunity would be for 10 seconds etc etc

the healer in me loves this, but the rogue in me is crying a million angry tears at this idea

[Illana]

yeah but it just makes people more aware of what theyre doing, not just spamming ccs at people randomly.

So you got a rogue and a warrior playing together, just coordinate when you're going to kidney so the warrior knows when its safe to charge.

Obviously would be chaos in bgs and you'd be immune to cc most of the time, but it will stop overpowered comps a little by reducing the effect of spammable ccs liek cyclone/sheep/fear.

[Darcks]

it would make healer 10X better which is soo many times better imo

[djnastya]

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[Deleted]

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[zalmatra]

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[Stanton Biston]

Here's the deal. The thread is on the idea of a universal diminishing return system with a visible bar like indicator.

Posts off topic will be infracted.

[Deleted]

What's the difference, other than it allows longer CC lockdowns before you are punished by immunity?
Seems academic, and actually weaker in the way it allows CC to remain fully effective when chained.

[Korgoth]

I think it could work but it would depend on how fast the bar filled, and what counts towards it. The strength in it I suppose would be its universal, so instead of multiple CC DRs, you have 1 resolve bar. Does it work based on CC duration so say resolve gave 20s immunity so a 4s cheap shot would fill up 20% of the resolve bar, or would every ability be given the same %, say 33%. The weakness though is 2 full duration fears, or sheeps, is just too punishing, so how does the resolve bar take into account long CCs?

There is definitely some upsides to it, but I would not say it's better then DR, just seems better in some situations then the current dr implementation of wow. If the DR in WoW was universal I would not see much appeal to the Resolve bar setup.

[Stanton Biston]

I think the biggest issue I have to a universal DR is that if all CCs fill it up, then wouldn't there be a premium on the best CCs? Namely stun.

Universal DR begets universal CC to me. Because why take a warlock with their fear that breaks on damage and adds to a universal DR meter when you could take a rogue or something. It is an interesting concept to discuss.

[zcks]

As Stantion Bistion said the problem with a universal DR to CC would be that all CC fills it up making it very hard to balance.

That being said Diminishing returns are due for a bit of an overhaul & the list of abilities which cause diminishing returns needs to be expanded (looks at spammable snares & roots).

[Deleted]

would the stun share DR with the silence/school lock?
not sharing would be a way to keep healers on a leash and it's only stun/cc immunity not intrupt healers would stil work in pvp they would need more control in other ways through movement like death grips and stuff.

[ashin]

I preferred the Age of conan cc system

if you used a stun, depending on the length of the stun and the cooldown it has they would be immune to ALL stuns for a certain amount of time.

for example impact stuns for 2 seconds, the stun "immunity" would be 10 seconds long

kidney shot stuns for 6 second and has a cooldown of 20 seconds, the immunity would be for 30 seconds starting from when the stun is applied

charge stun is 1.5 seconds and has a 14 second cd immunity would be for 10 seconds etc etc

Immunity timers are the best way to handle this. DAoC discovered this like.. a decade ago.. but Blizzard decided to go with Diminishing Returns instead. I've never heard anyone try to argue that DR is good. It's a bad system, and it is unintuitive (in fact invisible without UI mods). It doesn't penalize spam.

The reason Blizzard would not like "Resolve" is that Blizzard believes chaining different kinds of CC together is indicative of "skill" or "teamwork", so they think that is good gameplay. They wouldn't like the idea of a blanket immunity.

An immunity system promotes skillful gameplay because applying CC at a bad time, or breaking it early, puts that person on immunity and actually winds up hurting you. So you have to think twice before throwing out CC. You can still chain together difference forms of CC because they have separate immunities. And it is much more clear to the new player because they can see the immunity as a buff in plain sight.

[Dayn9]

One of the biggest problem with the current WoW DR system is that there are too many things that prevent people from casting, and that therefore encourages instant-spells spam.

For instance, I was playing my shaman against FMP the other day. I juked counterspell, still was unable to cast for 4 sec. I then had to juke feral's kick, to sit through his instant cyclone (I don't really have time to dispel it), and then got deeped into impact stun'd.

4 sec + 6 sec + 5 sec + 3 sec = 18 sec without being able to do anything, and I'm not counting I can get feared, plus I have to fake cast both kicks (feral's kick has got like 13 yards range so you can't easily outrange it), that's long enough for DR to reset, and almost long enough for the mage to get his CS back.

Imho you should be rewarded for fake casting, however currently you aren't. Juke kick ? jk, gouge into KS into (vanish) garrote. Juke Rebuke ? jk HoJ into repentance, etc.

[ashin]

See an immunity-based system can address that too. The whole idea is that immunity timers create a punishment for doing cc wrong. Or, in your example, a reward for successfully dodging / managing / juking cc.