Warriors and Crit

[bigjohnburger]

Almost every beta video I've watched of warriors talking about new mechanics I've heard all of them bring up how warriors crit chance sucks. I thought Blizzard was trying to make every stat equally appealing. But then how does making crit terrible fix this?

[Vampyrr]

I think they meant crit chance. They have practically obliterated our crit chance in MoP

[Anuibus]

I'm pretty sure crit is still one of the bet stats, and they are instead meaning to say that how much crit a warrior has sucks. Strength classes have always had lower crit, with %crit talents to make up for it. With the removal of those talents, blizzard needs to allow strength to give crit to make it on par with agility as a primary stat.

[bigjohnburger]

ya, I wanted to play my warrior this expansion but with the state they are in currently there is no way. Terrible self healing and no critting.

[Firebert]

If crit falls, then a new secondary stat takes its place. I can easily see Arms going for Mastery and Fury going for Haste.

[Laundry]

If crit falls, then a new secondary stat takes its place. I can easily see Arms going for Mastery and Fury going for Haste.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

no it'd be mastery, not haste.

[Fireslave]

At the start of Cata until warriors could get enough crit from T11 there was serious benefit in haste. I expect this will be the same, the first few lock outs will suck then because of gearing crit will be awesome again and we can all do the warrior love happy crit rainbows dance.

[bals]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

no it'd be mastery, not haste.

wasn't there already a lot of discussion about doing a haste build for fury for 4.3? I haven't kept up with fury much at all though

[Firebert]

no it'd be mastery, not haste.

Our Mastery is changing to improving our damage whilst enraged. We need to crit in order to be enraged. Our Crit chance is being nerfed, and as such throwing points into Mastery is the same as throwing the dice every single encounter.

As a Fury Warrior's Mastery is tied into his Crit chance, I think it's likely that Haste is going to be Fury's main secondary stat.

Of course, it's still beta.

[rinleezwins]

Crit always goes low with new expansions, nothing new. Carry on.

[Roguezor]

ya, I wanted to play my warrior this expansion but with the state they are in currently there is no way. Terrible self healing and no critting.

I'm sorry, "terrible self healing"? it's just as good as it is now or even better in MoP.... You got a pretty ok CD on all 3 of the spec self heals + you can use glyphs to increase your self heals aswell.

But anyway, yeh crit is kinda low on beta. Fury lost rampage (5% crit), but from just a tiny bit og target dummy "testing" it didn't look too bad imo... And bladestorm with dual 2 handers seems fun :P

[Laundry]

Our Mastery is changing to improving our damage whilst enraged. We need to crit in order to be enraged. Our Crit chance is being nerfed, and as such throwing points into Mastery is the same as throwing the dice every single encounter.

As a Fury Warrior's Mastery is tied into his Crit chance, I think it's likely that Haste is going to be Fury's main secondary stat.

Of course, it's still beta.

Bloodthirst also has a 40% increased chance to crit.

[Firebert]

Bloodthirst also has a 40% increased chance to crit.

Still rolling the dice. It's just that it has at least a 45% uptime now (6s CD on BT, 6s duration on Enrage).

You're probably right. I'm still using the US talent calculator which they've not updated. Mastery for Fury in PvE it is.

I'm not sure about PvP, with the dispels and all. Stacking Crit means that there's less downtime for Enrage, as well as it being more resilient against dispels.

[Deleted]

Well the crit is going to be ridiculously low. Check this. Woltk bis gear we had crit around 55% (full buffed). Now in bis gear we have (as arms) around 27%.And i mop? 10%. I dont know how about u, but i am terribly bored of crit and spikes in dmg. In wotlk i had fluctuation of my crit chance on average boss fight around +- 5%, but now, when we have such low crit chance, the crit chance can jump even more then +- 10-15% and thats a significantly amount. For example this week i was curious why is my dps on ultraxion so low (did around 38k). Then i chcecked a recount. I had 23% MS crit, but should have 35%. Had 14% slam crit but should have 30%. Just cuz bad luck i dropped my dps about 5k or maybe even more and there is nothing to do about. With even lower crit the "luck factor" ll define our dmg. So it wont be dps output but luck output.

[Nuvuk]

I'm pretty sure crit is still one of the bet stats, and they are instead meaning to say that how much crit a warrior has sucks. Strength classes have always had lower crit, with %crit talents to make up for it. With the removal of those talents, blizzard needs to allow strength to give crit to make it on par with agility as a primary stat.

Then rogues wont need agility unless blizz makes it a rogue only stat. Or they could just have warriors need agility. I find needing strength and crit pointless if agility is both.

[Ellyidol]

+ the fact that Battle Shout doesn't give Agi anymore. Yeah agi is useless, but it at least gave me 2% crit chance.

I like strength adding crit chance.

[Firebert]

Then rogues wont need agility unless blizz makes it a rogue only stat. Or they could just have warriors need agility. I find needing strength and crit pointless if agility is both.

We only get 1 point of attack power per point of Agility, whereas we get 2 points of attack power per point of Strength.
I don't think Warriors are ready to give up DPS just to crit more.

As it stands at 85, Warriors need 243.6 Agility to get 1% crit chance, and 179.34 Crit rating to get 1% crit chance. This makes Agility worth half the value of Strength (or equal to the value of Attack power) plus (179.34/243.6) times the value of Crit Rating. By referencing the stat weights that Ask Mr Robot has, this would put Agility at around 95% the value of Strength for Arms, around 93% the value of Strength for Single Minded Fury, and around 96.5% the value of Strength for Titan's Grip.

We're going to have to watch the conversion ratio of Crit from Agility closely in Mists. If it goes up much more (than this value), we could see Agility becoming better than Strength for DPS (which is clearly a design flaw).

EDIT: Or not. Apparently I forgot that Agility doesn't increase attack power for Warriors any more. This makes Agility around 49% the value of Strength for Titan's Grip, around 45.75% the value of Strength for Single Minded Fury, and around 49% the value of Strength for Arms.

So, Agility's still terrible, but can beat out some secondary stats.

[Anuibus]

Then rogues wont need agility unless blizz makes it a rogue only stat. Or they could just have warriors need agility. I find needing strength and crit pointless if agility is both.

I'm not sure where you're getting at. Strength currently gives 2 ap per point. Agility gives 2 ap per point AND some extra crit to spare. Even intellect gives some small amount of crit for spells as well as spell power, but im not sure entirely how intellect works in MoP so i'll keep it between the 2 physical primary stats.

For a strength user, strength gives 2 ap per point while agility gives just some crit.
For an agility user, strength gives 1ap per point while agility gives 2 ap+some crit.

If strength gave crit, than the ap given if you're an agility user would have to go away, so make it fair. So if you're agility and use strength, you just get crit, and if you're strength and use agility, you also just get crit. Or just completely make it so strength does nothing if you're an agility class and vice versa. Any strength user going for agility or any agility user going for strength would be severly gimping themselves, and there would be no more reason to do so than there is now. Strength doesn't need to give as much crit as agility does for agility users, but even at half of what agility did, it would provide 10% extra crit at current levels.

[Milkshake86]

I'm not sure where you're getting at. Strength currently gives 2 ap per point. Agility gives 2 ap per point AND some extra crit to spare. Even intellect gives some small amount of crit for spells as well as spell power, but im not sure entirely how intellect works in MoP so i'll keep it between the 2 physical primary stats.

For a strength user, strength gives 2 ap per point while agility gives just some crit.
For an agility user, strength gives 1ap per point while agility gives 2 ap+some crit.

If strength gave crit, than the ap given if you're an agility user would have to go away, so make it fair. So if you're agility and use strength, you just get crit, and if you're strength and use agility, you also just get crit. Or just completely make it so strength does nothing if you're an agility class and vice versa. Any strength user going for agility or any agility user going for strength would be severly gimping themselves, and there would be no more reason to do so than there is now. Strength doesn't need to give as much crit as agility does for agility users, but even at half of what agility did, it would provide 10% extra crit at current levels.

This thread is terribly uninformed. They stopped strength from giving agi users 2ap per hence why ferals stopped using the strength to glove enchant. Str as of firelands gives 1ap to non plate wearing dps and 2ap to plate wearing dps, as well as the change to agi to be 2ap to agi users. Now it is still silly to have 2 100% identical stats. 2ap+crit on both agi and strength defeats the purpose of removing attack power from items. Either things will change or they are intentionally removing more crit as they did from wotlk to cata, id assume a bit of both. Warriors do also tend to be the bitchiest class in game, warriors should have the slogan "topping meters since 05" , regardless start voicing your opinions on the official forums and get a chance to be heard by the dev's it is the only way to your going to get heard.

[Ssateneth]

Having a low base crit chance actually makes crit rating BETTER if all mechanics and damage scaling are 100% identical. Example: 2 extreme and generalized cases where you have 0% crit and 50% crit. On average, you hit for 100% damage and 150% respectively. Say you get enough crit rating to add 10% crit, which changes your crit/average damage to 10%/110% and 60%/160% respectively. In the 0% -> 10% crit scenario, you do 10% more damage on average than what you used to go (110%/100% or 1.1/1 = 1.1 or 110%). In the 50 -> 60% crit scenario, you gain 6.666...% damage (160%/150% or 1.6/1.5 = 1.0666... or 106.666...%)

Removing baseline haste/crit/mastery/whatever = better haste/crit/mastery/whatever scaling. In contrast, primary stat scaling is a little lower. Blizzard did mention that they want secondary stat scaling to be better in MoP than in Cata, this is very likely one way of doing it.