Heroic Haraga 10m Frost Phase question.

[kya4life]

Hello, my group is 2/8 heroic (Morchok & Yor'sac) and we decided to give Hagara a try last night. Our raid make up currently is:

Prot paladin

Resto Druid
Resto Druid
Holy paladin

Fury Warrior (OT)
Fury Warrior
Surv Hunter
MM Hunter
Demon Warlock
Fire Mage

After a full night of attempts the only phase we were left scratching our heads at was Frost Phase. At first we tried to stack ranged and heals in the center with Hagara after the first crystal goes down... pop raid cooldowns then try to out heal the damage while ranged burn down crystals & melee/tank do the run. We cant seem to last more than 20-30 secs doing that method and only are able to kill 2 and 1/2 crystals. Both druids were pushing more than 20k hps... yet the whole inside group was lingering at around 20-30% the whole time... then eventually die at the 30sec mark.

We also tried having the whole group run but that was a disaster due to the amount of frost flakes dropping on the floor.

Any tips & tricks would be greatly appreciated.

[thehordemage]

if you can't survive in the bubble for 45ish seconds then running around the bubble is perfectly fine, especially since you've got 2 druids for stampeding roar. everyone should run as close as they can to the bubble then have frostflaked players step inside it for a quick dispel when they get the debuff. if your group falls behind have a druid roar.

[Zestrenocya]

If you run the whole group, have your hunter run Aspect of the Pack during frost phase. Nothing during the phase will daze you. Have your players duck into the bubble to get dispelled when they have frost flake to prevent the floor from becoming overwhelmed with ice patches.

If you elect to have your melee run with the rest of you in the bubble, have melee duck into the frost bubble whenever they get flaked in order to prevent the slowing effect on the outer ring (Dispeller should show both frostflake and watery entrenchment in their raid frames, dispelling the flake only once watery is present). Also, in this configuration, it is basically irrelevant for the melee to be "all together" since the heals and dispels are coming from the center. If a melee is in trouble, they should duck in to the bubble, let the wall pass, and come back out behind it. When the frost phase starts, we also have melee go to one crystal and ranged "start out" on a variety of different ones. Makes for less wasted melee damage when only one "high hps" beacon is left at the end of the frost phase...the ranged should be doing the majority of the work here though. (Of note, we run resto druid, disc priest, holy paladin and we stack in the center of the bubble without issue. Possibly you're too spread out in there. Clumping helps the paladin a lot for holy radiance. It's not easy to heal a clump, but it's do-able.)

[Spokeeasy]

I suspect it is our prot pallies fault tbh. Well him and people getting hit by the wall....

[Lumpriest]

Heyo! Our guild also had problems with the frost phase. I assume the frost patches on the ground are screwing you over? Us, too. Until we found out that you can dispel the debuff within the bubble and it won't leave a frost patch on the ground.

We have everyone together in one group running around the inside of the circle. Assign one healer to dispels and the other healers to heal any damage that might come about in that phase. Anyone who gets the Frostflake debuff on them will dip into the bubble and wait for the healer to dispel the debuff (which should be nearly immediately as they enter the circle) and then they can run back out and continue dpsing/running. Just repeat this throughout the phase and you'll be golden.

Your healers can put the Frostflake debuff and the water bubble debuff (forget the name) on their raid frames so they can dispel as early as possible to minimize damage and so people don't fall too far behind.

Have one hunter use Aspect of the Pack. There will be no knockback from the magical damage and it makes that phase a joke using that dispel method. Your new worry will be running into the wall rather than the wall catching up to you.

In regards to the "legitfulness" of that dispelling strat, I think a few people have asked Blizz about whether it's a bug or intended. It's been a while, but I think Blizz either never said anything about it, or said it was intended. So if you're touchy about that, no need to worry.

[Deleted]

Heyo! Our guild also had problems with the frost phase. I assume the frost patches on the ground are screwing you over? Us, too. Until we found out that you can dispel the debuff within the bubble and it won't leave a frost patch on the ground.

We have everyone together in one group running around the inside of the circle. Assign one healer to dispels and the other healers to heal any damage that might come about in that phase. Anyone who gets the Frostflake debuff on them will dip into the bubble and wait for the healer to dispel the debuff (which should be nearly immediately as they enter the circle) and then they can run back out and continue dpsing/running. Just repeat this throughout the phase and you'll be golden.

Your healers can put the Frostflake debuff and the water bubble debuff (forget the name) on their raid frames so they can dispel as early as possible to minimize damage and so people don't fall too far behind.

Have one hunter use Aspect of the Pack. There will be no knockback from the magical damage and it makes that phase a joke using that dispel method. Your new worry will be running into the wall rather than the wall catching up to you.

In regards to the "legitfulness" of that dispelling strat, I think a few people have asked Blizz about whether it's a bug or intended. It's been a while, but I think Blizz either never said anything about it, or said it was intended. So if you're touchy about that, no need to worry.

You know it would seem more "legit" too do the Dispelling strategy then standing inside the bubble and healing through? Why would there even be Icewalls if this wasent the case.
The reason people do the other way is because they got dumb people in the raid who cant run from an wall of ice comming to them.

[kilometer18]

Dispelling individuals after they step in the watery entrenchment is the only way to do this fight. A couple incorrect dispells won't ruin the outer circle, but they aren't ideal, obviously. Have every single person run around the circle, there's no point in staying inside and healing yourself.

@Lumpriest there was never any doubt in my mind that dispelling inside the bubble wasn't "legit" - the way to do this fight that wasn't legit was use pvp trinkets to remove the damage of the entrenchment as well as the reapplication of the dot, allowing everyone to stay inside indefinitely and kill the crystals at your leisure, which was hotfixed soon after

[kya4life]

Thanks all for the feed back... we will continue trying the group running strategy. I once read that dispelling in the bubble doesn't drop a patch on the floor but wasnt 100% sure since I coulda swore I saw a patch down in the bubble when we were trying the stacking method. Going to give this another go, thanks again everyone!

[Deleted]

your melee should never have an issue because of the dispels - your warriors can leap/intervene/charge next cone and your paladin can freedom/bubble.

They will be moving so much that their dps will be horrible during that phase anyway. If you are having issues with the healing of the frost phase, you should have a word with your healers, you have some excellent AOE healing classes, plus tranqs/tree of life

i'm not sure if you are doing double frost or double lightning phase but we actually found that if you have more than 1-2 melee (incl tank) it was easier to do lightning phase twice since they will be shorter than frost phases owing to the amount of damage your melee can do while running during frost.

[morphling8]

Also, have your hunters pack during frost. I believe the only damage that will actually daze you is the falling rocks, but I'm not even sure about that one as it's rather hard to get hit if you pay attention.

[kya4life]

I believe the only damage that will actually daze you is the falling rocks, but I'm not even sure about that one

I can confirm that they do indeed daze you with pack on... but ya its a non-issue as you shouldn't be getting hit by them in the first place.

[Tearyn]

Dispelling individuals after they step in the watery entrenchment is the only way to do this fight.

Simply not true. Whenever we have a hunter for aspect we brute force the frost phase and instant dispel the debuffs, leaving frost flakes everywhere, but because we stay as close to the wave we're following as possible, at all times, we never risk being hit by the one behind us.

I dunno what to tell you really, we do not dispel inside the bubble, ever, if we have a hunter.

This week however, one of our 10mans did not have a hunter for aspect, and so we dispelled in the bubble.

[Spokeeasy]

your melee should never have an issue because of the dispels - your warriors can leap/intervene/charge next cone and your paladin can freedom/bubble.

They will be moving so much that their dps will be horrible during that phase anyway. If you are having issues with the healing of the frost phase, you should have a word with your healers, you have some excellent AOE healing classes, plus tranqs/tree of life

i'm not sure if you are doing double frost or double lightning phase but we actually found that if you have more than 1-2 melee (incl tank) it was easier to do lightning phase twice since they will be shorter than frost phases owing to the amount of damage your melee can do while running during frost.

Being one of the druids I know we aren't the problem. I was hovering around 28k hps our best attempt, 26k the others.

[LaplaceNoMa]

Is it 100% certain that going into the bubble doesn't daze you? My RL keeps enforcing this wierd strategy of running around in circles while NOT having the aspect (he claims it dazed him). I decided to keep silent yesterday but I'm rather sceptic about that

[Deleted]

Dispelling inside the bubble will leave a patch, this got fixed/changed not too long ago. When you're stacked in the middle, are you perhaps dispelling the debuff on people who are stacked?

/edit
Also, could you provide a World of Logs report?

[Deleted]

Is it 100% certain that going into the bubble doesn't daze you? My RL keeps enforcing this wierd strategy of running around in circles while NOT having the aspect (he claims it dazed him). I decided to keep silent yesterday but I'm rather sceptic about that

The only thing that will daze you with aspect of the pack up is the falling rocks and possibly ice walls but thats a non issue either way.

[Deleted]

All range and healers go into the middle and AoE heal, it's easy to out heal the dmg, that what we did and it's a cake walk :P

[Shaina]

We did this fight just instant dispelling every debuff while staying outside the bubble. With aspect of the pack and a gap between the frost patches every now and then it is very easily doable. You also have 2 freedoms in your setup, people should call out for them if they fall behind.

Oh, and, there is no reason for you to be using more than 2 healers unless you're stacking in the middle of the bubble and just healing through that phase.

[Serj Tankian]

What we do.

Since I'm BM I set my pet on the last Crystal we'd be passing and KC on CD. We blow up the first one before we have to start moving to the second Crystal. We DPS it as far as we can. Onto the third Crystal we DPS it as much as we can, go into the bubble and back around the wave DPS'ing the Crystal more (by this time it's dead). We move to the fourth crystal (by this time my pet is on the second Crystal and it's dead), we repeat the same step as we did for the Third crystal.

Sorry if it's a bit messy to read. I hope this helps though. Also I use Aspect of the Pack.

[Deleted]

your melee should never have an issue because of the dispels - your warriors can leap/intervene/charge next cone and your paladin can freedom/bubble.


i'm not sure if you are doing double frost or double lightning phase but we actually found that if you have more than 1-2 melee (incl tank) it was easier to do lightning phase twice since they will be shorter than frost phases owing to the amount of damage your melee can do while running during frost.

you can chose whether to do a Frost or a lightning phase ?