Dota 2, Why all the Hate?

[Kuntantee]

Never said DotA2 won't survive against LoL, of course it will survive, but it won't steal the "limelight" from LoL. It won't even come close and arguing against that point is.... not intelligent, to put it nicely. Yeah, some LoL players will leave LoL for DoTa2, and good riddance to them since these are the players that are spamming the forums non stop with Anti-Riot Pro-DotA2 BS. Once again, I am not a fanboy of any particular game. If I had to choose a game to call the best it would obviously be LoL because the numbers don't lie.

I have played HoN and I played DotA way back in the day when it was brand new in the Warcraft RPG maps. The simple fact is that people hopping on a forums spamming "OMG DotA2 gonna kill LoL" is annoying as hell since DotA2 is basically an updated port of DotA. There is nothing "New" or "Innovative" about DotA2, it is just more of the same and as such has already hamstrung itself. If DotA2 were releasing with new game modes and game types and "original" champions I may care to try it but it's not. Hell, I would even try it if it was a DotA port but based in a sci-fi type era because at least that would be something different.



Hermanni.... MoBa may have been coined by Riot but that doesn't mean it isn't a completely appropriate term for the genre. The term has been picked up and used by pretty much every game review magazine/site in the business so get over it. Someone coined the term MMO and MMORPG and FPS as well and they were simply adopted in the same exact manner as MoBa so even QQing against that is lame.

As to LoL having a lower skillcap than DoTa or HoN I call BS. When I see you playing at dreamhack next year holding up a sign saying "I told you so RAWRF" I will gladly eat my words. Just because there is less consideration as to how to level your champion doesn't mean the skillcap is lower. Lets be honest here, some math geek is going to sit in his mommy and daddy's basement and crunch numbers then post them on the internet and from there the only "skill" involved is reading the website and copying it.

As to LoLs lack of strategic depth I again call BS. This is where you QQ about no denying in LoL and I LOL at you. Yeah, denying is cool..... because like.... yeah.... lets waste time killing my own creeps to not give them gold/exp while I could be killing their creeps and getting gold/exp. If you were to think about it, if the 2 best teams in the world were facing each other they could both either deny or not deny and it wouldn't make a difference because they should both be doing it just as well as the other thus making the final outcome from playing the deny game the same as if they didn't deny. And Denying is the ONLY strategic difference in HoN/DotA than in LoL. A high ELO game of DotA/HoN/DotA2 will be decided based on champion choices and team fights just as it is in LoL.

I find it funny that you think you know what the "players" want from a DotA game. You may know what you want but you don't know what the whole community wants. You want a graphically updated DotA, fine, I want a new DotA gamestyle, and that is equally fine. All I am saying is that if you are already playign and enjoying HoN or LoL then DotA2 has given you no reason at all to try it. No reason. None. Nada. That is, in definition, bad business. That is like Ford making a Prius, calling it Prius2 and thinking they are going to steal business from Toyota. It doesn't work that way.

As to me using DoTa instead of DotA I just think the cap T looks better instead of the A. rofl

Different target audiences between LoL and HoN/DotA2? Do you really believe that? Like cmon, think about what you're saying there. You simply can't be serious? You make such a great post and response and you end with that? Cmon!? Really!?

Dota 2 is going to have same gameplay because that is what real dota players are demanding. I do think valve should listen why players had left dota but not as much as their hardcore player and their gameplay strategy which is said to be %99 same with original dota and this is a proof of what all dota players are demanding otherwise valve would make something more appealing to LoL players as well but they decided to listen dota fan base first. So your argument fails here. Your second argument which is "There is nothing "New" or "Innovative" about DotA2, it is just more of the same and as such has already hamstrung itself" fails hardly as well. There will be new modes such as death match and wild mode which is random heroes with random spells. These mods does not exist in original dota and death match seems pretty innovative to me. I'm pretty sure there will be more new things on dota so your argument fails once more.

You're saying "As to LoL having a lower skillcap than DoTa or HoN I call BS" but then failiing to prove it with arguments. I doubt some is going to believe you with this way. But i can tell you why LoL is considered to has lower skill cap. It's because indeed it has very little strategic depth.

"Yeah, denying is cool..... because like.... yeah.... lets waste time killing my own creeps to not give them gold/exp while I could be killing their creeps and getting gold/exp"

Above sentence makes no sense. Denying is not waste of time because it let's you block target's farming which is one of the primary thing in dota as well as other moba games ( if it's appropriate term)

"If you were to think about it, if the 2 best teams in the world were facing each other they could both either deny or not deny and it wouldn't make a difference because they should both be doing it just as well as the other thus making the final outcome from playing the deny game the same as if they didn't deny"

are you serious? You really believe this? Well, you're badly obsessed with denying it seems. I wonder the trauma behind this... i thinkyou've failed to kill one creep in lane for 15 mins because of deny mechanic?

Stop bashing dota man because it makes you funny.

[Ishu]

moba games ( if it's appropriate term)

Yes, it is the appropriate term. What else would it be? AoS clone?

[Deleted]

I like HoN more than LoL, mostly because LoL looks really plastic.

Played HoN with a friend and spanked some for about a year ago. Then he switched to LoL for some reason that is unbeknownst to me, and I just didn't get satisfaction in playing it. The UI and Heroes are all fine and the balancing is great, I just can't stand how it all looks in-game.

I'll probably get DotA2, because that's what all my friends used to play with me 3-4 years ago at school.

Gimme dota dammit, the only reason I play troLoLol is because I'm waiting for dota

[Underskilled]

HoN? :P It was dota 1:1 in beta with everything you just said.

Also, the term "MOBA" wasn't invented by Riot. Please... the term was around a lot longer before that.

And pay the extra money for HoN? Outrageous!

Besides, everyone I played DotA with hated HoN to the core

[Hermanni]

All of my arguments are sound and your whole post completely failed to counter a single one of them.

Saying that doesn't make it real. You haven't made one convincing argument in the entire thread, everything you've said has been just your opinions stated as if they were facts or just speculation. In my eyes you do make a good representation of my idea of a LoL player though, and for the love of god you should stop accusing anyone else for being a fanboy to anything.

And if you really think Icefrog gives a flying fuck about anyones opinion but his own you have some serious issues. Why do you think Icefrog is making DotA2 instead of working for Riot? haha

Icefrog has had his own team of testers and he always listened to pro-level players in DotA development, which is why DotA is as balanced and relatively bug-free as it is. And to add some speculation, if I were him I wouldn't want to see my game butchered from half of it's mechanics to be replaced by powerups with a price tag. DotA is still easily the best working "MOBA" game with he best gameplay, and DOTA 2 will compete with that. It won't compete with LoL in numbers and numbers aren't what makes games "good", especially when they're free and their comparison partner isn't, else I could just say Farmville is ten times better than any of these games.

[Kuntantee]

All of my arguments are sound and your whole post completely failed to counter a single one of them. So I dunno why your telling my I failed to prove anything. Maybe you should actually read my post before replying and flaming me and making yourself look like an idiot.

The bolded part is fact. You are obviously not a high ELO player because you would realize this. This is actually the reason LoL doesn't have denying.

And I am not bashing DotA, not once have I bashed DotA. I played DotA for more than 4 years. I simply think DotA2 is failing to add anything substantial enough to the game in order to successfully compete with existing games.

As to your "real DotA players" are you really so stupid as to think that LoL is so amazingly different from DotA? That one paragraph means I am done trying to have a conversation with your stupidity. You are nothing more than a DotA2 fanboy and a LoL hater. You are probably one of those trolls on the Riot forum spamming pro DotA2 shit. If you are really stupid enough to try to tell ANYONE that LoL has no strategic depth you obviously never played past 1500 ELO. And if you really think Icefrog gives a flying fuck about anyones opinion but his own you have some serious issues. Why do you think Icefrog is making DotA2 instead of working for Riot? haha

indeed you're pmsing calm down man calm down...just like hermanni said, just because you say it, it doesn't mean it's true. The bolded part is bullshit because you can't deny all of your creeps in theory and in practice. It seems i really hurt you with my sentences since you're nerdraging hard in front of your computer. I'm not a fanboy but you're one because you're the one who nerdrage just because his fav. game got some criticism . Icefrog was maintaining original dota map for years without getting paid. You're full of fail arguments lmao.

Not me but you have some real issues since i suggest you to go a doctor or something, a random guy one the internet shouldn't have made you nerdrage

[Ishu]

you're the one who nerdrage just because his fav. game got some criticism

You DotA fans are the ones who can't accept that other people like other games, so you go around saying we're idiots for choosing to play another game we enjoy more. I agree that RAWRF isn't in the right either, but that doesn't make you any better.

[Hraklea]

Yes, it is the appropriate term. What else would it be? AoS clone?

A lot of people, including Valve, call these games "action RTS".

The bolded part is bullshit because you can't deny all of your creeps in theory and in practice.

Your answer doesn't prove he's wrong.
Players equally skilled will deny each other in the same proportion and the XP will be balanced, like it would be if there was no deny. Deny has no purpose rather the make the game more complicated, it doesn't add any depth to the game.

[ultimar235]

I personally don't like how they haven't tried to expand DoTA. I thought the WC3 engine had limitations which meant certain abilities and such just couldn't be created. I'd have like to have seen new mechanics and abilities. I think they played it way too safe and it's hard to respect the game because of that.

[Kuntantee]

You DotA fans are the ones who can't accept that other people like other games, so you go around saying we're idiots for choosing to play another game we enjoy more. I agree that RAWRF isn't in the right either, but that doesn't make you any better.

by"you" i meant only RAWRF not all LoL players. I'm a LoL player(very very casual) as well and it's a good game but not as much as dota. You misunderstood me. Before you jump in to last page and and quote some parts of my post, please read entire thread.

Your answer doesn't prove he's wrong.
Players equally skilled will deny each other in the same proportion and the XP will be balanced, like it would be if there was no deny. Deny has no purpose rather the make the game more complicated, it doesn't add any depth to the game.

how can something CAN happen if it's not applicable in theory and practice?

okay I'll give a clear example for you to understand. First of all deny is matter of timing rather than skill also it depends A LOT to the base damage and attack speed of the heroes as well as the attack range of the heroes because a ranged hero would not let melee to deny if he/she plays well. Some heroes have huge advantage in terms of "last hit" because their base damage or attack speed is higher. For example, with magina it's very easier to last hit due to it's high attack speed (less time for animation) or with nessaj very very ieasy to last hit due to it's high base damage. So please answer me, all heroes are different in terms of attack speed, range and most importantly base damage how can two person who have same timing ( if it's measureable ) can deny all of their creeps? Also in some cases, more than one creep dies at the same time. Another situation is some heroes use their ability to kill creeps for example rikimaru's blink, it also gives you an advantage.

it fails in theory and practice.
it does add depth to the game.
I hope you get it this time.

[zaoly]

DotA 2 is a clone of DotA 1 with better support for replays and for competitive gaming.

With that said, I want to see at the very least, new features like matchmaking, or training mode for new players. LoL and HoN both have features that ease new players into the games. DotA has always been newbie unfriendly, be it the game itself or the community. How many when any of you just started DotA, you've been called out "GTFO and L2P", seriously how do you L2P without playing? And I have no problem with denying as part of gameplay. HOWEVER there should be game mode where deny is turned off for new players that are learning.

[Kuntantee]

DotA 2 is a clone of DotA 1 with better support for replays and for competitive gaming.

With that said, I want to see at the very least, new features like matchmaking, or training mode for new players. LoL and HoN both have features that ease new players into the games. DotA has always been newbie unfriendly, be it the game itself or the community. How many when any of you just started DotA, you've been called out "GTFO and L2P", seriously how do you L2P without playing? And I have no problem with denying as part of gameplay. HOWEVER there should be game mode where deny is turned off for new players that are learning.

there is a game mod which removes the penalty of deny for enemy players but the mechanic will be there for practice.

[Ishu]

by"you" i meant only RAWRF not all LoL players. I'm a LoL player(very very casual) as well and it's a good game but not as much as dota. You misunderstood me. Before you jump in to last page and and quote some parts of my post, please read entire thread.

I've read the entire thread, and I've seen DotA players call every LoL players retards for playing an "inferior" game. Not saying you did it personally, but some DotA fans have. So idiots really exist on both sides, no need to generalize (again, not you personally, but some of the DotA fans in here).

[Kuntantee]

Your entire deny argument about denying is flawed because, as I said, In a top ELO environment Deny will not matter because both teams will be equally as good at denying. In top ELO the winner or loser of the game will be determined based on team composition and coordination in team fights. All denying does is add another mechanic that is completely ignorable in top ELO.

For example, why waste time denying when you can instead pressure the opposing champion directly so he has to retreat to heal, thus losing out on gold/exp anyways. Then you get to clean up mobs and maybe put a spanking on a tower. The only time Denying is truly going to matter is if your team is stupid enough to have a weak attack champion up against a high defense champion. If that is the case you deserve to lose the game out of stupidity anyways.

Yeah, LoL has less tedious game mechanics to pay attention to. That does not, at all, mean that it is an easier or less complex game. If you think so then, again, as I said, you have never played high ELO and most likely never will.

What the **** is high ELO? Anyway I don't care what do you think about me, I'm just trying to prove how fail your arguments are...
deny mechanic works for tower as well as heroes, your whole argument failed... Because when you deny a friendly hero ( you can't deny always, only deny-able if he/she has dot and about to die) or a tower it creates advantage and denying towers or heroes is not like creeps. They depend on situation so both teams will not be able to deny towers and heroes equally.
You're a hardcore lol fanboy, I've failed your argument more than once but you persist act like you're true. I'm tired of this stupid discussion. Goodluck with your high ELO or whatever if you're not pathetic enough to lie here little kid