Have Newcomers/Resubbers nowadays no chance to get a raid group or even a raid guild?

[Hurpdurp]

Welcome to the world of achievement craft. It like interviewing for a job, but they want you to have experience. You cant get experience until you get a job... very mean cycle . If you are geared, gemmed, chanted correctly I will have zero issue taking you in an alt/pug run. If/when you manage to get into a run and dont know a fight, you have to tell the RL before hand to explain the fight. Nothing will make me kick you quicker than no one saying anything about not knowing the fight then dying to fire. I wont tolerate it, and you will be gone.

I play on a few different servers and see multiple runs every day for people doing old content or pug FL runs. It will require some effort but you will get into a run. Just do what your supposed to, and youll stick around. As fickle as people are in this game, groups are always needing players.

I actually have to disagree with the A vs B team. My guild runs 2 10 man teams. Each group helps the other, and has lead progression at some point. At the start we formed a "super group" to down FL bosses early then spread officers to each team. Its not hard to find guilds with multiple competent 10 man teams. If one team is having an issue the other teams officers pop into vent to help out with a fight. We want both teams to succeed, not one team to loot the spoils, and the other team to bang their face in a wall.

[blackblade]

So my guild recently just went to 10s b/c we couldnt make numbers for 25 - Are you saying we cut our losses and kick the other 10 people that want to raid? Instead of making a second team that can raid on a differant day with older members they are all happy with?

there's a difference between a "B" team and having two raids in one guild.

Typically. Team A poaches from team B if someone in team B is better (in gear or numbers) than someone in team A. Team B basically becomes a pack of leftovers.

Team B is also borrowed from when someone in team A is absent.

The difference is that with two raid groups that are running alongside each other, if both are moderately at the same level, it'll work. but in the AB case, everyone on team B is only raiding because they want to be on team A, and naturally, will be miserable so long as they're not in team A. (even though team B is running the same content.)

[ghostprotocol]

Yes I did it. I stopped raiding in ICC and came back to raid firelands. It's very simple actually..

- run ZA/ZG until you get all your JP gear (don't really need valor). Get all epics in your gear slots for your class
- do the Molten daily quests and get as many 365 epics as you can
- apply to a raiding guild that's starting out

[Deleted]

(First: Sorry that I'm responding so late, but we had some problems with the internet at home... but they're fixed... hopefully)

Well, what i forgot was to post my character...

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/eredar/Seouljin/advanced

This is my mage, the old char was a DK, but i had also hard problems... not only experience and gearwise, but because i was a DK (because every DK is a fricken newb or so...). The DPS are between 22k and 19k, but i think, that i could do more. And i looked at the AH for better equipment... there is none, or it is so expensive, that i couldn't buy it.

I'm farming rep for the epic shoulder enchant, i should be exalted tomorrow or so. And i had to reforge Mastery to Hit, since i've would never been on hit cap without doing that. I also had a little insight to FL in a trash run... but it wasn't really successful. After 10 minutes, in the middle of a fight someone leaved and after the battle most of the group did... but it was a little improvement. A server change would something i would do only if i knew that a guild from another server had some interest in me... and than Hord only since i played 3 years alliance and i wanted something different. After reading guides multiple times i think i could do Shannox, Rhyolith and may be Beth and Baleroc in theory. But i don't think, that that would count as experience, or?

Well, tomorrow is another day, and i'm looking forward... maybe i have luck?

Thanks so far to giving tips etc.... i wasn't prepared that i get so much great answers and even created a little discussion... but on a constructive base.

So far
ChosenSpitfire

(P.S: And it seems, that my english get's better! I think, that i just need practice and i'm a little bit rusty, since, of course, i speak normally german.)

[redruMPanda]

Hi there,

i have a simple question: Has someone, who has resubscribed back to WoW, ANY chance to get a raid group for FL normal mode without pugging? I have unsubscribed 4 months ago because i had that problem with my old main (Tier 11 raid of course). I had only 8/12 NHC and i got no raid group after my guild teared apart... i was on 5 different servers, one of them was even a UK one. But every raid group, that i had, had the problem, that their raid members were to late or didn't came online etc. Or i didn't found any raid group, that wasn't raiding heroic...

I started one month ago again with a new char and i'm now at that point, where my equip couldn't be better except for raid gear. But my new guild, well... they are like the ones that i had months ago... the raids won't start. And a little part of me wants to quit again.

For me it seems that everyone is raiding heroic... and everyone, who doesn't want to pug or wants a normal raid since he knows the bosses only from guides and vids, has no chance to get into the raids, to get equipment and experience, so that he can finally go and do the first heroic bosses. And that's sad.

Am i right or am i just a very unlucky guy? Or are there any tips and suggestions, what could help? And please, do not troll, just post constructive things.

So far
ChosenSpitfire

(And sorry for my english, but english isn't my first language.)

I'm in the same boat I came back in July i quit back in January with no gear. It took me a little over a month to get caught up, and now I'm faced with the whole never clearing FL thing. I haven't even cleared one boss, and that makes me a sad panda.

[Nobleshield]

The issue is that when you come back from a hiatus, or if you didn't start playing the minute the xpac launched and got to 85/geared the first few weeks, time has passed. So the really good guilds have cleared a lot more, and therefore won't usually take somebody less progressed (e.g. they are 1/7H and you are let's say 3/7N), and the only recourse is the "scrub" guilds (term used lightly) that are just starting out and have maybe killed Shannox or Beth'tilac, and probably not good and will wipe on Alys/Bale/Rhyo and likely never see Staghelm or Rag, which then leads to you still having only a few bosses down, and the higher-end guilds still turning up their noses at you because now they're 3/7H and you're still 3/7N or maybe 4/7N if you're lucky.

Also, this:

there's a difference between a "B" team and having two raids in one guild.

Having two raid groups is one thing. Having one group that gets all the better players, gets pushed as the "real" group is something entirely different and will likely piss people off who are in the second group for one reason or another (e.g. cannot make the first group's schedule, etc) because they end up getting treated like second-class raiders while all the praise/gear/accomplishments is handed out to the first group. Raid groups have to be kept equal, you can't have an "A-team" and a "B-team" because the B-team people are pushed to the sidelines.

[wartywarlock]

I used to be in an 'A' team, the other 2 started moaning, nearly all 20~ of them, becuase they never raided or got anywhere when they did. We'd look at hte calender, oh they havn't made an event, we spoke in vent, oh they havn't read the basics. Try to explain the fight, they havn't even seen a screen shot or the map. We invite some to our raid and they are clueless!

Yeah, most 'B' teams are their own problems!

[Selkhet]

In general, I steer clear of guilds with more than one group. There's no reason, none at all, to have more than one raid group in a given guild. It rarely works, and the less progressed groups ALWAYS get the short end of the stick whether it's having to accept alts from the A group, or never filling holes in the roster. If the B group dies, who cares? A group is what matters - A group is the prestige holder in the guild.

NEVER. EVER JOIN A "B GROUP". NEVER. In fact, never join a guild that has an A group and a B group.

Funny, my guild has 3 groups but it works very well. This is because we have a serious "no poaching from other groups" policy, and the three work in a completely independent form, with different leadership and roster for each one of them.

[Deleted]

I think you can get into a FL raiding guild with semi decent gear suitable for FL normals, however, a lot would obviously depend on your application and you (this is from my point of view of course). Most people however tend to aim a bit too high - I wouldn't expect to get accepted to a 5/7 HC FL guild with not having done any normals. I suppose that now as there are less people playing WoW also the guilds who run normals need people.

I think the best solution, if you want to pug, is to prepare yourself for every fight you want to do and make your own pug.

[Gilian]

It's because organized raiding guilds steamroll through normal raids. The only ones still raiding normal modes after a month or two are just really really bad with a very few exceptions.

It's not hard to join guilds. You just have to impress them. The only time I didn't get accepted was when I applied at a top 50 guild when my previous guild was a around 400-500. They only didn't want me because I took a break and didn't clear Halion 25 HC and LK 25 HC although I played for 4 years and cleared all raids in TBC except for Kil'Jaeden in SWP and everything else in WotLK. They probably just didn't need my class that bad or had better applications.

But yes the only way to impress them is with experience and also a little with gear (comes with experience). So start pugging and join a guild which just started on hardmodes, a guild that is well organized (you can see if they are by visiting their website).

[Coldkil]

Unfortunately there are a lots of guild on WoW, and few of them are good guilds.

I'm not talking about progression, i talk about dedication. Most of the small guilds try only 10 man beacuse it's easier to find less people, then they die just because people quit after the first wipes.

Keep searching OP, make apply in the guilds you have seen around for more time, start as social or whatever, talk with people. You'll find a place suited for you.

EDIT: we have a stable 25man roster, but since we have lots of members with very different attendibility, we start 10 man raids to make all or at least the majority of the players available to raid. No A-team or B-team, people cycle through them randomly.

[seam]

Will a new player be able to join a raiding guild currently on heroics? No, and they shouldn't be able to.

Will they be able to join a newer raiding guild working on normal modes? Yes, and they should be able to.

Newer raiding guilds that are getting off the ground won't require top end gear, nor will they require a ton of experience.
If a player wants to raid, they will raid. They will learn about sites such as EJ and l2raid and become prepared.

[Primernova]

Newcommers have the richest WoW expirence since vanilla atm.

Very easy to get into, play for months and then have vets turn them into minced-meat due to Ethuggery, at end game.

[Deleted]

It's not that hard to get into proper raiding, just hop your way up from guild to guild. Or, as I did, impress someone of a decent guild by coincidence and get invited to their raid. Or rely on your old friends to get you in some guild as a social and work your way up from that.

It's really not that hard, just don't expect to get carried. You need to perform exceptionally for your gear level (which is quite easy nowadays, people thinking 15k dps is enough in 370+, lol) to have a chance on getting accepted into raids that you have no experience in. Or... make your own raids, get some achievements, work from that.

[Stevoman]

It is very possible to find a group. My guild has recruited many people who are skilled, well spoken, and correctly itemized what little gear they did have. It's very quick and easy to gear up players like that. The only true gear blocks are tanks, as it's near impossible to gimp along a tank around the 350 level against heroic Firelands if they are getting instagibbed.

Competent guilds don't consider gear after a reasonable level (obviously quest greens won't fly, but a mix of crafted, rep, and ZA/ZG gear is perfectly acceptable).

[ragingsoul]

when applying lie and say XXX is my character but I rerolled to this and haven't got achievements yet.

I wouldn´t do that if you can´t back it up. When I´m reviewing an application, I go look at this stuff, and I really hate people that say that have cleared everything from vanilla to now when the data isn´t here to back it up.
And when we don´t have a link to the former main, we get a lame excuse like " my account was hacked" . Makes doubt already in the applicant, and doesn´t help him at all.
On the other hand, someone that clearly states what he has done, and wants to do, with honest and constructive answers, and criticize his choices ( either on the positive or negative side) shows a lot more effort, and is generally what guilds look for.

Between someone that has the achievements, and a respectable gear, but doesn´t give any info of commentary on them, and someone that explains his gear choices, his future picks, and what went wrong in the attempts in details would have the same chance in my eyes.

In the end, the time you take to make an application (using the guild templates, puting details, good sentences, grammar, and clear text) and the lvl of details in it will be as much important as the gear and experience themselves.

[Bitlovin]

I'll never understand why these people even recruit. Is it some kinda perverse "Gotta Catch Em All" mentality?

I suppose the mentality is that it is better to have too many raiders than too few... but I agree, having A, B, C, etc. teams is always a bad idea.

[Crableg]

One of the problems is getting into a PuG, if you are guildless, and dont have the achievement, you wont get invited to a raid, how are you supposed to get the achievement if your never allowed to join ?

Anyway, I mainly do PvP now anyway so not a big issue.

[Chamass]

Having two raid groups is one thing. Having one group that gets all the better players, gets pushed as the "real" group is something entirely different and will likely piss people off who are in the second group for one reason or another (e.g. cannot make the first group's schedule, etc) because they end up getting treated like second-class raiders while all the praise/gear/accomplishments is handed out to the first group. Raid groups have to be kept equal, you can't have an "A-team" and a "B-team" because the B-team people are pushed to the sidelines.

I disagree, this completely depends on how your guild is build up.
In my guild we have a group1, group2 and even a group3..
Group 1 are our real raiders.
Group 2 are the more casual raiders, with some socials who happen to be good
Group 3 is purely socials.

None of the socials expects to clear firelands in group 3, none of group 2 expect to progress as fast as group 1..
Its all about expectations

edit:
also, getting in to pugs is though.. but you want to get achievments, put some time in aquiring a vent server, read up on tactics and lead the raids urself with people like you
Or find people like me, who dont even care about achievs..
If i pug for my group 1, i check gear and talent choices.
If i pug for t11, i check the same :P
and i never, ever not clear full instances with pugs

[Loaf]

Behold one of the biggest reasons I despise raiding guilds: They're cliques. I was in a particular raiding guild for 2 years during Wrath, and during the night in question we were attempting our B-Squad ToC10 HM for the first time. Now the fact that there was an A-Squad should give away the cliquey right there. But anyway, the guild was cruising along in this run, with my GF's Ele shaman. This was her night. There was finally an open spot for her, she comes in and is 2nd on the charts. Not bad for a first timer.

But about an hour and a half into the raid, this guy signs on and sees we are doing ToC10 HM. His main is in A-Squad. He wants in on his crappy alt. The raid leader gives without much effort, and my GF is unceremoniously dumped from the raid. I confront the raid leader later, who was actually more of a Co-GM. I tell him that it was a bullshit call, and other players could not progress in the guild if only the same 10 individuals raided. His response was basically that we should feel honored to even be brought at all, and we were subject to be kicked in favor of A-Squad at any time and for any reason. Harsher words were exchanged, and both she and I left a short time later.

The guilds I experienced later weren't much better. Almost everyone had a core 10-man group that was really close, and 25s were attempted (and usually pugged) because the leet raiders wanted better gears. A "B-Squad" was almost always in the works for 10-mans, but a plethora of lame excuses usually kept that from becoming a reality.

I'll never understand why these people even recruit. Is it some kinda perverse "Gotta Catch Em All" mentality? Most new people never do well in these guilds. Many never even make friends with The Inner Circle. So yeah, I'm quite done with these guilds, thanks.

This was similar to me about halfway through ToC to a month after ICC came out, except I had no gf at the time and was never benched. I was part of our A-team but the guild was big enough for two 25s, but even being on the a-team, I never felt like I was any part of that guild. Plus the raiding was more hours per night than I was used to and I burned out quick(hence why I left after only a month of ICC). I knew there was only a small selection(like 5-6 people iirc) that were all the leader/co-leaders/officers and knew each other IRL and were very clique-y. Even in crappier guilds I've been in, there's ALWAYS some sorta clique that goes on with the people that lead/do anything and getting to feel like you belong is nigh impossible.