Sooo, crit or haste for ret now?

[Jonuts]

crit and haste affect dots at the same rate

I'm going to have to ask you to prove your math on this one. On a per-point basis, haste scales faster than crit for giving percentages, i.e., it takes less haste rating to get 1% haste than it takes crit rating to get 1% crit. 1% haste increases the damage (over a sufficiently large amount of time) by 1% for anything affected by haste. In this case, in the time you would get 100 ticks of Censure, you would get 101 ticks. 1% crit also increases damage by 1% (Censure crits for double I believe, but I'm not actually certain), as 100 ticks would produce 101 ticks worth of damage. Of course, subject to RNG. Less haste rating gives 1% haste compared to crit rating for 1% crit. Censure crits don't proc anything. Therefore, haste has risen in value compared to crit. No, its value is not likely to have completely sky rocketed. After all, censure still benefits from crit, just slower. Also, the relative value of mastery compared to haste and crit has dropped. Again, not by jaw dropping amounts.

If you're on the fence between crit/haste, just one more reason to choose haste. If you're firmly in the belief that crit is better than haste, the change in relative value is probably small enough to not rock your boat. If you believe haste is better than crit, well, doesn't affect you since you're already stacking the stat that benefits the most from the hotfix.

[varstjasol]

My Vessel of Acceleration and Apparatus of Khaz'goroth say I'm keeping crit as is. At this point I just won't reforge haste -> crit.

[Shelly]

I honestly doubt t13 will push haste past crit. You would be giving up way too much mastery to make a 3 second CS worth it

Much of it just comes down to what our tier will be loaded with. If it's high on haste and low on crit haste will probably pull ahead at even rather basic levels - for more smoothness in the rotation if nothing else. If it's really high on crit, then crit will remain ahead.

I think the main thing that would hold haste back would be lack of a trinket. Otherwise we should be about on par with where I think Blizz has been pushing us this entire expansion with wanting to nab large amounts of haste to lower the CD on crusader's strike.

Which is kind of funny because if they had given us that amount of haste to begin with it would have made gearing up far more interesting and paladins much easier to balance since they wouldn't be aiming so much at a theoretical dps target for us.

[Jonuts]

If it's high on haste and low on crit haste will probably pull ahead at even rather basic levels - for more smoothness in the rotation if nothing else. If it's really high on crit, then crit will remain ahead.

Umm. You have that backwards. The more haste I have, the more crit is worth. The more crit I have, the more haste is worth.

[Deleted]

and the more haste you have, the more mastery is worth and the same is for crit. So just keep all three balanced.
I've reforged with haste higher than other 2, because when I use AoK with haste raid buff, I hit 3 sec cd on Crusader Strike and during zealotry I could following the CS - TV rotation

[Deleted]

all this hotix did was buf all stats that effect censure..... which is Everything EXCEPT mastery.

however crit is still meh, we already have
15% from Rule of Law on our crusader stirikes
60% on hammer from sanctified.
12% on judge and TV from arbiter of the light

remmber though they buffed the "base" censure by 40% thanks to inquiry of faith we have an aditional 30% more so we went from being

100% * 1.3(arbiter) = 130%
to
140% * 1.3(arbiter) = 182%

so as ret we have actualy gained more than 40% we gained more like 52% on censure damg.

[terrahero]

The buff to Censure is a bigger buff to Haste. Censure crits for 150% (spellcrit). So 1% haste is roughly a 1% dps increase to Censure, but 1% crit is not. But ill wait and see, if the old model is accurate the diffirence between crit and haste was to big for haste to suddenly overcome crit.

As for AoK. With 4pT12 your Zealotry starts long before your AW+AoK. Giving you 15sec of spamming TV's, wich is boosted through talents for extra crit aswell. So with 4pT12 there is already a very high likelyhood that youll have a full stack for AoK before you pop it. Extra crit would not be needed.

[Liquidevil]

Runing simcraft latest version on my gear setup, it showed me something interesting Mastery > Haste > Crit
Anyone else got "pushed" in to haste recently? i had before almost 13% crit ub, now im down to almost 8 (trinket stacks are zzzzz now )

btw my char is eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmane/Liquidsnake/simple

[Reith]

The buff to Censure is a bigger buff to Haste. Censure crits for 150% (spellcrit). So 1% haste is roughly a 1% dps increase to Censure, but 1% crit is not. But ill wait and see, if the old model is accurate the diffirence between crit and haste was to big for haste to suddenly overcome crit.

As for AoK. With 4pT12 your Zealotry starts long before your AW+AoK. Giving you 15sec of spamming TV's, wich is boosted through talents for extra crit aswell. So with 4pT12 there is already a very high likelyhood that youll have a full stack for AoK before you pop it. Extra crit would not be needed.

Censure crits for 200% damage. More with the metagem.

[epicasta]

you should also notice that the buff was just a near 1% total dps increase. Our main dmg still comes from TV and mastery. It wasnt a big change but yes crit is slightly better because of how BiS trinkets are, AoK and Vessel. They both require a higher crit value compared to haste.

Edit: Sorry, yeah its 3%. looked at wrong spell on WoL

[Reith]

you should also notice that the buff was just a near 1% total dps increase. Our main dmg still comes from TV and mastery. It wasnt a big change but yes crit is slightly better because of how BiS trinkets are, AoK and Vessel. They both require a higher crit value compared to haste.

It was at least a 3% total dps increase, not 1%. 40% of at least 7% of overall damage is not a 1% increase. With the change, Censure out-does white hits even on one target.

[Jonuts]

you should also notice that the buff was just a near 1% total dps increase.

Bad math is...bad? Definitely a larger increase. Right now, censure seems to be average ~12% of my damage output. Censure isn't a big hitter, but it certainly adds up. I do believe all the math has been saying ~3% increase.

[Judge Malthred]

I am looking forward to seeing what kind of changes this buff brings, hoping it is noticeable!

[Eurytos]

mastery, crit, and haste feed off of each other. Exemplar has stated this throughout the debate of haste and crit. The more you stack of one stat, the better the others become. So, you have to make a decision based on what your gear looks like and which stat is best at the moment for you.

The reason crit is favored by higher end ret pallies is because of trinkets and such, as Butosai has said.

[Khwaj]

well i just got AoK
i guess im gonna favour crit more than haste now

[terrahero]

Censure crits for 200% damage. More with the metagem.

appologies, you are correct.