This is your chance to get Doomguard's CD fixed

[Stridulent]

Among all the complaints about the Doomguard cooldown I've seen on the forums here, this might be your one chance to have your opinion actually be seen: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3369472?page=2

We’re looking for feedback on your class as we work on changes and adjustments for a future game update. While we may be making some specific class changes in 4.3, what we’re looking for in this thread is overall feeling on the class as a whole for more long term changes in the future.

Here is the kind of feedback that is NOT helpful in this particular thread:
[ul]
[li]Concerns that your current damage, healing or tanking is not competitive. While this kind of feedback is often useful, it also is the kind of thing that can change from patch to patch, and so it isn’t as useful for long term vision changes.[/li]
[li]Concerns that your feedback is being ignored or that we don’t take these kind of posts seriously, or otherwise posting anything that is off-topic or not in the spirit of this thread’s intent.[/li]
[li]Requests for responses to your suggestions or feedback. The purpose of this thread is to get information to us, not the reverse.[/li][/ul]
We hope you take these threads seriously, as we’re going to be reading them very carefully. We ask that you take time to think and formulate a useful and objective reply, as this feedback could be used to alter your class in substantial ways.

We won’t be replying here addressing your concerns. This is purely for us to read your answers to the below questions.

Please copy the below questions into your reply and answer each one.
[ul]
[li]What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both][/li]
[li]If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other][/li]
[li]If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs][/li]
[li]What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.[/li]
[li]What makes playing your class more fun?[/li]
[li]What makes playing your class less fun?[/li]
[li]How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)[/li]
[li]What’s on your wish list for your class?[/li]
[li]What spells do you use the least?[/li][/ul]

Be sure you post your feedback in the link I provided at the top of this page. In this thread, feel free to discuss the Doomguard or any other things you think should be fixed.

[Jahrastafari]

Right, because what I want is my favorite tree nerfed into the fucking ground, and see the other two trees take a minor hit.

They're not going to re-work the entire Demonology tree for 4.3, and that's what it'd take to change the Doomguard back down to 2% per point of mastery while maintaining competitive DPS. Until they're prepared to re-work the entire tree, they're going to consider it 'working as intended.'

The 10 minute cooldown instead of an exhaustion-style debuff is simply there for two reason:

First, they don't want Warlocks soul stoning themselves, killing themselves after the Doomguard dies, only to resurrect and blast away with another 1m+ damage guardian

Second, they don't want to have locks roflstomping BGs with a 1m+ damage guardian every time they die.

[mistuhbull]

What type of content do you focus on?

PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE?

10 Man raiding, due to heroics having become a chore in Cataclysm

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?

The main one is that debuffs like Shadow and Flame (think mages have one as well) do not cause DoTs to update properly. If they are not on the boss before the DoT then the DoT does not recieve the damage bonus.

Assist Stance is obnoxious, it feels to me like a bad version of old defensive. I would rather have old defensive and aggressive back.

What makes playing your class more fun?

everything =)

What makes playing your class less fun?

Demo is clunky, Affliction has almost zero use for Soul Burn, Doomguard is only available for every 2-3 attempts.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

I REALLY Like Affliction, IMO it is the best rotation in the game because it flows together so seamlessly.

Demo is clunky, especially when you factor in the variability of Meta CD as compared to the static time on Demon Soul and trinket cooldowns. Demo also gets too much of its damage from Meta while sitting uncompetitvely between them. Soul Fire is not an enjoyable execute. It does less damage than Shadow Bolt and is only used because Decimation makes it faster. Pet swapping feels clunky, not creative.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Less Reliant on Doomguard to be competitive, or have the doomguard up every attempt (5 min CD with Exhaustion type debuff?)

Soul Fire is not an enjoyable execute

Demon Soul:Felhunter feels less than optimal for Affliction, it's a simple dot buff until 25% since it does not benefit Shadow Bolt. That feels less than exciting to be one of the zomg cool moves we got in Cata

I would LOVE permanent Meta form for Demo. If the spec was balanced around being a giant purple demon, it would be the greatest spec ever.

Demonology using Felguard as their main pet in 90% of scenarios

What spells do you use the least?
Curse of Tongues
Voidwalker
Succubus
Imp
Demon Armor
Rain of Fire

[Deckon]

Mistuhbull, I do believe your response should be on the WoW forums, as that's where they are seeking otu the feedback. The OP was just copying the actual blue post so you could reference what he was referring.

[Jahrastafari]

Less Reliant on Doomguard to be competitive, or have the doomguard up every attempt (5 min CD with Exhaustion type debuff?)

Give me an exhaustion-style debuff on the Doomguard and I'll suicide,battle-resurrect, and 1.5m damage Doomguard 3 times an encounter. Hello 70k dps for the duration of the fight.

[mistuhbull]

Mistuhbull, I do believe your response should be on the WoW forums, as that's where they are seeking otu the feedback. The OP was just copying the actual blue post so you could reference what he was referring.

It is there, is this not a discussion thread? What better way to trigger discussion than by laying out your issues.

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 10:37 AM ----------

Give me an exhaustion-style debuff on the Doomguard and I'll suicide,battle-resurrect, and 1.5m damage Doomguard 3 times an encounter. Hello 70k dps for the duration of the fight.

and then you have a healer die due to inattentiveness and you wipe because you cannot ressurect them. Glad you got 70k DPS on a wipe.

Not to mention, how many fights are you doing that are 16+ minutes long?

[Jahrastafari]

and then you have a healer die due to inattentiveness and you wipe because you cannot ressurect them. Glad you got 70k DPS on a wipe.

Not to mention, how many fights are you doing that are 16+ minutes long?

The point is, if you have a raid of people that can keep themselves from dying, it opens up massive exploitation of the cooldown. Not every raid has mouth-breathers standing in fire using up a battle res every attempt.

The duration of the debuff is irrelevant if it's an exhaustion-style debuff that clears on death. The fight doesn't have to be 16 minutes long.

[warician]

every time my raid does a ready check and my DG is on CD, i click "not ready" and state the amt of time left on the cd. it's kind of a funny that we cant use our main ability on every pull attempt.


it is an ongoing joke in my raid that is kinda getting out of hand lol

[Kenasan]

The point is, if you have a raid of people that can keep themselves from dying, it opens up massive exploitation of the cooldown. Not every raid has mouth-breathers standing in fire using up a battle res every attempt.

The spell would have 5 min cooldown also just like bloodlust meaning, at best, you'd get to use it maybe one extra time at the cost off all your buffs.

[mistuhbull]

The point is, if you have a raid of people that can keep themselves from dying, it opens up massive exploitation of the cooldown. Not every raid has mouth-breathers standing in fire using up a battle res every attempt.

So you can meter top the shit out of Farm bosses?



WHO CARES? You're not going to be doing this on progression fights so why does it matter? Do you care THAT much about the "sanctity" of the WoL rankings? Then shouldn't you be protesting the tricks feeding of DPS, since it is a spell designed to assist tanks with threat.

[Jahrastafari]

The spell would have 5 min cooldown also just like bloodlust meaning, at best, you'd get to use it maybe one extra time.

Or, like I said, die to clear the exhaustion-style debuff, resurrect and boomguard again.

[Kenasan]

Or, like I said, die to clear the exhaustion-style debuff, resurrect and boomguard again.

Yeah you're missing the point. If I cast bloodlust then die I can't just rez and cast it again because the spell has a 5 min cooldown, dieing resets the exhaustion, not the cooldown of the spell.

[Jahrastafari]

So you can meter top the shit out of Farm bosses?



WHO CARES? You're not going to be doing this on progression fights so why does it matter? Do you care THAT much about the "sanctity" of the WoL rankings? Then shouldn't you be protesting the tricks feeding of DPS, since it is a spell designed to assist tanks with threat.

You're asking why they don't have an exhaustion-style debuff for the Doomguard. I'm explaining a valid reason as to why they don't. Raids aren't designed around having Demonology warlocks being able to drop 3+ Doomguards in a fight.

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 01:45 PM ----------

Yeah you're missing the point. If I cast bloodlust then die I can't just rez and cast it again because the spell has a 5 min cooldown, dieing resets the exhaustion, not the cooldown of the spell.

If you can get him in twice in an encounter over 5 minutes they'll just cut his damage in half, making it less significant of a cool-down. In fights under 5 minutes you'll take a solid DPS hit because you'll get a single-summon with half the damage.

Is it worth having a cooldown that's guaranteed every attempt but only does half the damage? Are they going to take the time to change code for that? I'm doubtful on either of those questions.

Besides, what's the point of a 5-minute debuff if there's also a 5 minute cooldown? The point of the debuff is that it clears on death. A matching debuff and cooldown is pointless.

[mistuhbull]

You're asking why they don't have an exhaustion-style debuff for the Doomguard. I'm explaining a valid reason as to why they don't. Raids aren't designed around having Demonology warlocks being able to drop 3+ Doomguards in a fight.

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 01:45 PM ----------



If you can get him in twice in an encounter over 5 minutes they'll just cut his damage in half, making it less significant of a cool-down. In fights under 5 minutes you'll take a solid DPS hit because you'll get a single-summon with half the damage.

And how many fights are honestly over 16 minutes? Not to mention, they wouldn't balance it around 3+ Doomguards since a 10m group only gets 1 Brez, and that would be an exploitation of the system that nobody but the extremely bored on Farm and the WoL nuts would use.

I would LOVE it to be a less significant cooldown, there is no reason it cannot be and they roll that damage into my actual spells.

[Jahrastafari]

And how many fights are honestly over 16 minutes? Not to mention, they wouldn't balance it around 3+ Doomguards since a 10m group only gets 1 Brez, and that would be an exploitation of the system that nobody but the extremely bored on Farm and the WoL nuts would use.

I would LOVE it to be a less significant cooldown, there is no reason it cannot be and they roll that damage into my actual spells.

If the limitation of the Doomguard is an exhaustion-style debuff, the fight doesn't need to be 16 minutes long. The debuff clears on death, freeing you up to summon anther Doomguard. If there's a hard 5-minute cooldown on the spell, the debuff would be redundant and irrelevant.

[mistuhbull]

If the limitation of the Doomguard is an exhaustion-style debuff, the fight doesn't need to be 16 minutes long. The debuff clears on death, freeing you up to summon anther Doomguard. If there's a hard 5-minute cooldown on the spell, the debuff would be redundant and irrelevant.

Why would the debuff be redundant and irrelevant on Doomguard yet it is not on heroism?

The point of the Debuff is prevent multiple doomguards per fight, just like it is now. However with the 10m CD you do not get the doomguard on every attempt, which causes your DPS to drop in and out of competitiveness between each attempt, or you are forcing your raid to wait an extra X minutes so you can have YOUR CDs back up. No other class is subject to a 10m CD spell to do competitive damage

[Deleted]

Just reset the Cooldown :
- on classic ressurect after a wipe

Don't reset the CD:
- after Brez
- in PvP areas

Problem solved.

[Jahrastafari]

Why would the debuff be redundant and irrelevant on Doomguard yet it is not on heroism?

The point of the Debuff is prevent multiple doomguards per fight, just like it is now. However with the 10m CD you do not get the doomguard on every attempt, which causes your DPS to drop in and out of competitiveness between each attempt, or you are forcing your raid to wait an extra X minutes so you can have YOUR CDs back up. No other class is subject to a 10m CD spell to do competitive damage

Heroism is a raid buff, Doomguard is a personal cooldown. If you have multiple classes with heroism/bloodlust/timewarp, you can and SHOULD fire up that raid buff again after any battle resurrections, for the players that have cleared their exhaustion debuff. Nobody else can apply the doomguard spell to you, as you know, and that's what makes having a 5-minute exhaustion-style debuff redundant and irrelevant. When the spell is a personal cooldown whose cooldown duration matches the debuff duration, the spell will always be limited by the personal cooldown, making the debuff redundant and unnecessary.

I understand why you want to be able to have the Doomguard every attempt. I'm just pointing out that there are more than a few hurdles to overcome and or balances to make if you're going to make any change that makes the spell available every attempt.

[Kivimetsan]

What type of content do you focus on?

PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE?

10 Man raiding, due to heroics having become a chore in Cataclysm

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?

The main one is that debuffs like Shadow and Flame (think mages have one as well) do not cause DoTs to update properly. If they are not on the boss before the DoT then the DoT does not recieve the damage bonus.

Assist Stance is obnoxious, it feels to me like a bad version of old defensive. I would rather have old defensive and aggressive back.

What makes playing your class more fun?

everything =)

What makes playing your class less fun?

Demo is clunky, Affliction has almost zero use for Soul Burn, Doomguard is only available for every 2-3 attempts.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

I REALLY Like Affliction, IMO it is the best rotation in the game because it flows together so seamlessly.

Demo is clunky, especially when you factor in the variability of Meta CD as compared to the static time on Demon Soul and trinket cooldowns. Demo also gets too much of its damage from Meta while sitting uncompetitvely between them. Soul Fire is not an enjoyable execute. It does less damage than Shadow Bolt and is only used because Decimation makes it faster. Pet swapping feels clunky, not creative.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Less Reliant on Doomguard to be competitive, or have the doomguard up every attempt (5 min CD with Exhaustion type debuff?)

Soul Fire is not an enjoyable execute

Demon Soul:Felhunter feels less than optimal for Affliction, it's a simple dot buff until 25% since it does not benefit Shadow Bolt. That feels less than exciting to be one of the zomg cool moves we got in Cata

I would LOVE permanent Meta form for Demo. If the spec was balanced around being a giant purple demon, it would be the greatest spec ever.

Demonology using Felguard as their main pet in 90% of scenarios

What spells do you use the least?
Curse of Tongues
Voidwalker
Succubus
Imp
Demon Armor
Rain of Fire

Basically what I wrote on official forums

Glad im not the only one XD

edit: Full time Meta Form sounds amazing, Druids can do, why cant we?
Also, Immolate aura should be just a normal thing that comes with Meta Form, kind of like Ret Aura, which you can turn on and off, encase you dont want to be doing damage to something

[mistuhbull]

Heroism is a raid buff, Doomguard is a personal cooldown. If you have multiple classes with heroism/bloodlust/timewarp, you can and SHOULD fire up that raid buff again after any battle resurrections, for the players that have cleared their exhaustion debuff. Nobody else can apply the doomguard spell to you, as you know, that's what makes having a 5-minute exhaustion-style debuff redundant and irrelevant when the spell is a personal cooldown whose duration matches the debuff.

Why would the Doomguard exhaustion be 5 minutes long? You can't just arbitrairly pull numbers out of your ass to support your point, they have to be based in some sort of rational logic