Paladin Class Feedback - Ret and Consecration

[Sourjoe]

I've been reading through some of the class feedback posts about paladins and was suprised to see how many people were on page with me about how Consecration just does not go well with trying to keep the damage up with its heavy mana usage. I read a few things about how maybe they should lower the mana amount needed to cast, or possibly making it a zone that offers a buff to the caster (thus usable to all specs like GoAK).

I'm curious to see this community's thoughts of how to treat consecration upcoming in the new content patch. Thoughts? Worries? Ideas?

[Nyghtfall]

Conscecration as a holy power AoE finisher. Make it more powerful and work like Flamestrike.

Both Prot and Ret would benefit greatly.

[Deleted]

I must agree that consecration feels useless, at least for Ret, at least during levelling. One cast and it eats like... half of my mana. Every time I press it, I actually end up regretting it, because I lack the mana for proper self-healing. And it doesn't even do that much damage! IMHO the mana cost of it needs to be lowered.

[Propane]

Stop using it on anything other than AOE unless you have mana to spare.

[Deleted]

Stop using it on anything other than AOE unless you have mana to spare.

I try to use it only when I get ganged by a couple of mobs at once. And even then it's useless, because it eats up the mana I'd use for healing myself out of all the damage from multiple mobs.

[Deleted]

I think its better to use Consecration than standing and waiting for CS... Even if it would be only 50~ dps incrase, but the mana cost are way to high

[Téuntjûh]

I like concecration how it is actually.

[Deleted]

I like to think of Consec, along with Flash of Light and Cleanse are spells that "make the mana bar exist". If you don't use those, the mana remains at above 90%.

It's actually part of playing ret right, it still keeps a mana management component. Basically if you spam consecs on CD without timing you lose mana and DPS.

It'd be nice if more spells that cost mana would go in the ret rotation to compete with Consecrate though, as consec has big CD, and it's.. alone in PvE for that role.
Something spammable perhaps, or perhaps even Crusader Strike with no cooldown but with manacost debuff building up like Arcane Blast, so you could build 3 power fast but lose say half of your mana ba if you choose to do so, and haste would make that extra cost debuff last less.

Ret mana management in PvP's nice though. Like a slower energy bar.

[Deleted]

Then please tell me how to use it right. Really, I may honestly not know, just basing this off my personal experience.
If you use it on single target, it's absolute waste.
If you use it on multiple targets, you lose mana you could use on healing, for minimal DPS increase.
If you don't use it on multiple targets, it's actually better, because you still have the other AoE Spell to whittle down secondary targets and also have the mana to heal yourself between mob switching.

So AFAIC, using it anywhere is just a waste of your mana, because you're actually better off without using it.

[sleepy67]

I use it on the scorpion packs in FL trash and some of the bigger mob pull in HC's. very situational but it does have the odd use.

[zcks]

Afraid if your actually expecting them to listen to ret paladin feedback your going to be let down.

Time & time again they have ignored the feedback given by people who play ret, even when it is given by the best players of pve & pvp in the entire world. When they do actually listen they most often either
A: joke about how about how bad the play of the spec actually is then do nothing about it like they don't even care how bad it is & just wanted to taunt people
B: Take the feedback posted & use the ideas to create an entirely new class or further improve another spec from another class to "fix" problems it doesn't even have (see death knights as well as several warrior & rogue abilities)
or
C: Tke the feedback and in a hurry create a rushed, half assed untested P.O.S spec that is easily countered & very unreliable because meeting a deadline is more important then doing their jobs even though they could have easily started working on the class that needed among the most work first instead of dead last.

[MerinPally]

If consecration is changed, it will cause so much QQ. It just needs a buff of some sort, its a defining paladin spell and it needs to remain so.

[Ryme]

Then please tell me how to use it right. Really, I may honestly not know, just basing this off my personal experience.
If you use it on single target, it's absolute waste.

It's a gain, albeit a very, very small one, to use it in single target.

[Lothaeryn]

If consecration is changed, it will cause so much QQ. It just needs a buff of some sort, its a defining paladin spell and it needs to remain so.

How exactly would changing consecration cause QQ? its the only spell that paladins no longer use because its mana cost far exeeds its usage in any given situation.

Holy: mana consuming sin. you mineaswell kill yourself for pressing the button

Prot: very situational, the only time its ever used is if you have a very heavy influx of adds that need to pe picked up and you can kite them into it (I.E. when you open the doors at the beginning and after Malacrass in ZA)

Ret: compeltely obsolete, the amount of damage it deals is less than half of what a ret can do with Seal of Righteousness(with Seals of Comm.) doing Divine storm and holy wrath all day. And is essentially a mana sink for no apparent reason.

the spell is entirely useless. I still wonder why i even have it on my hotbar when i can use its spot for a more worthy spell

[Demiknight]

I guess you'd have to rationalize any change with the idea that Blizzard seems to want different rotations for single vs. multiple mobs. What I mean is that if consecrate is a DPS move it should be silly to use it in a single target event. The main problem with that idea is that Paladins have some rotation gaps... so if you could afford consecration, regardless of how little it provides, it would still be buffing damage more. So in effect you still have the same rotation. I wonder if you could scale the spell damage based on the number of targets in the effect area? So for example it hits for almost nothing on a single target, but like a respectable mid sized sedan with 4 or more targets.

If you can't solve the rotation challenge then it sounds like making it a buff tool limited by mana might be an interesting solution. Something simple like targets standing in consecration take x% more holy damage. It may be worth keeping the high mana cost and literally limiting the availability of the buff by mana. At least then you could make smart choices about when and how to use it that would have some meaning... not just "blow it whenever it's up".

[ghostomc]

i think for the mana and for the cd it brings it definitely sound do alot more damage. maybe give us a buff while where standing in it or something. put a debuff on the person or npc thats standing in it. anything would be better then it is now.

[NaaBcAke]

Then please tell me how to use it right. Really, I may honestly not know, just basing this off my personal experience.
If you use it on single target, it's absolute waste.
I
.

On 20k+ mana when in those rare ocasions when there is absolutely nothing to cast between two crusader strikes. Its tiny dps gain, but yeah only rare situations when it shoud be casted. Beside holy wrath, that one could really get buffed, i dont see that change being broken in PvP or whatnot :/

[ipoststuff]

I played pala from the release. Consecration has never been a fun skill to use.
i dont want consecration to be an ability i use in my rotation. Give it a minute or two cooldown and then make it usefull.

idea_1) Whenever you dmg a target standing on conc you heal for X% amount of the dmg done.
idea_2) Hostile targets standing on conc have their dmg and/or healing done reduced by X%.
idea_3) Hostile targets standing on conc for 3sec or more gets taunted (prot talent)
idea_4) Friendly targets standing on conc gain X% haste.
idea_5) Conc move with the paladin
idea_6) Removes all debuffs from paladin and splits them to enemies.
idea_7) Any player standing on conc can not be affected by defensive or offensive dispell.
idea_8) Each tick slows the movement speed and haste by 15%. Stacks up to X times.
idea_9) Combine a few of these ideas and make conc do heavy dmg.

[Zephyrie]

I played pala from the release. Consecration has never been a fun skill to use.
i dont want consecration to be an ability i use in my rotation. Give it a minute or two cooldown and then make it usefull.

idea_1) Whenever you dmg a target standing on conc you heal for X% amount of the dmg done.
idea_2) Hostile targets standing on conc have their dmg and/or healing done reduced by X%.
idea_3) Hostile targets standing on conc for 3sec or more gets taunted (prot talent)
idea_4) Friendly targets standing on conc gain X% haste.
idea_5) Conc move with the paladin
idea_6) Removes all debuffs from paladin and splits them to enemies.
idea_7) Any player standing on conc can not be affected by defensive or offensive dispell.
idea_8) Each tick slows the movement speed and haste by 15%. Stacks up to X times.
idea_9) Combine a few of these ideas and make conc do heavy dmg.

These are some good ideas, but sadly, I doubt any of them would even be considered for any class.
1. Too much self healing, could be considered OP for Retribution, especially in pvp/arena.
2. Dmg reduction already given by prot (Vindication) and MS from other classes.
3. Taunts are usually needed on the fly, and prot paladins already have 2 taunts.
4. This would promote the whole raid stacking in Conc, and would benefit melee over ranged.
5. I like this idea, but it would make Consecration a completely different ability. Like a holy radiance that does damage.
6. LOL. Overpowered for pvp.
7. Paladin smokebomb. Overpowered for pvp.
8. Paladin desecration. Would never affect haste. Maybe movement speed.
9. Increase dmg, reduce mana cost IMO.

[Malthanis]

Maybe, since they want to ensure that we don't just spam it for both single target and AoE, the mana-cost can drop per the number of targets around you when you cast it. That would both ensure that it isn't dropped on CD, and that it's viable for AoE (with a reasonable damage buff, of course).