Holy Wrath... for real its dumb!

[Johnmatrix]

This has been said here already but atm the spell is very dumb and i hate it. It trahses the utlitity of it that it's part of the rotation. When you actually need it, it's on its looong cooldown because you had to hit it for damage. Removing it from the rotation and adding a new filler would help using it when it's actually useful and maybe someday i can stop hating to use the spell. It's utterly dumb to break cc accidentially with a damaging move that does like 1,5k damage if it hits 3 players in 3s, but having to do that because everything else is in cd.

[Reith]

Simple and good fix:
"Holy wrath also affects all targets hit with a 5-stack censure." this will buff AOE quite a bit and would help stack 5 censures quickly. and would have NO effect on boss fights. Brilliant right ??

AOE does not need a buff.

[Deleted]

I love how people are saying the damage is fine when ret is lowest class dps-wise. And don't give me that hybrid shit because Hyrbids are at the top.

And according to other simulation sites, but especially other players, Enhancement Shamans, Destro Warlocks, Frost Mages, Survival Hunters, Arms Warriors, Unholy Death Knights and Balance Druids are also the lowest. Infact, anyone who plays a class where they're unhappy about it seems to be 100% convinced the class is the worst in WoW History DPS/Tank/Healwise.

Ret Paladins are doing fine overall. They have good utility for PvP, but are very do-or-die oriented is about the only downside with them. But it's really a rare flavor you should embrace instead of cast away 'cause your class HAS special flavor. PvE wise they're also just fine if you know how to play them.

[Thoelle]

Well its more usefull. besides getting a 5-stack censure at 15 yards range before doing the first crusader strike is nice.

[Deleted]

This has been said here already but atm the spell is very dumb and i hate it. It trahses the utlitity of it that it's part of the rotation. When you actually need it, it's on its looong cooldown because you had to hit it for damage. Removing it from the rotation and adding a new filler would help using it when it's actually useful and maybe someday i can stop hating to use the spell. It's utterly dumb to break cc accidentially with a damaging move that does like 1,5k damage if it hits 3 players in 3s, but having to do that because everything else is in cd.

If everything else is on CD and you're near a stunned target which could be broken by the ability, please don't tell me you STILL actualy use it just to go "lol i had no other buttons to press".. Please. I beg of you.

[Johnmatrix]

If everything else is on CD and you're near a stunned target which could be broken by the ability, please don't tell me you STILL actualy use it just to go "lol i had no other buttons to press".. Please. I beg of you.

No that is not what i do on purpose. But for example warriors fear can run the target to your location while bursting and HW has a stupidly high range when you don't want it to have, or my dk could do hungering cold at the same time when i use Holy Wrath while killing the enemy. And just because of your attitude to me, i have to say this to you: a stun does not break from damage, so a stunned target won't lose the cc if i use holy wrath = hell yeah i use it near stunned targets. Otherwise cc'd targets i don't.

[Deathwhite]

Pretty anoying on my dk.. stuns my 2 pets and myself while lichborn'd -.-

[Polarthief]

while it is useful for some trash in some dungeons in general the OP is right the spell is rather crappy & should not be part of the single target rotation.

Hopefully blizzard will eventually fix this problem along with the many others ret has, I won't hold my breath however given the fact that after 7 years the spec is still horribly designed.

Arcane says hi.

Vanilla: No primary nuke
BC: Only Arcane Blast. It wasn't really developed yet.
LK: Finally! We get a decent arsenal, but no good rotation.
Cata: Even worse than previous rotation and more boring due to the crappy Mastery we were given.

[Reith]

And according to other simulation sites, but especially other players, Enhancement Shamans, Destro Warlocks, Frost Mages, Survival Hunters, Arms Warriors, Unholy Death Knights and Balance Druids are also the lowest.

Oh my god, there's so much shit wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin. Well, I guess first off, every spec you've mentioned has an alternative DPS spec, for one. The next thing is he that clearly stated worst class, which you then listed specs for no reason. The only legitimate CLASSES in comparison to DPS are Shaman and DK out of all of those when you include all of their DPS specs, which Frost DKs and Elemental Shamans do better than Ret, too.


Then there's all of that wrong with what you said about Balance Druids, plus the fact that Balance Druids are one of the higher damaging specs. See: [literally every site that records parses ever] They're doing MORE than good.

Infact, anyone who plays a class where they're unhappy about it seems to be 100% convinced the class is the worst in WoW History DPS/Tank/Healwise.

Except that, when you take into account all the DPS specializations that every class has, Paladins are literally the lowest DPS class, period. Let's just ignore that fact, I guess? I really want to call you an imbecile right now.

[Xami]

As Holy I glyph HW just for the stuns. Can be handy in some situations.

[Talen]

Of all the paladin abilities Holy Wrath might be the one i think its dumb as it most! Cmon what type of AOE is this? Little flashes of light that can kill rats or critters in the world? That is even on your RET rotations? I mean what good it does for tanks also? Even if it can stun some undeads its not really usefull also Glyph of Holy Wrath dont help much! The dmg is pathetic i really dont see some nice function for it... Well just discuss! THX!

HW is a decent AoE stun with situational uefulness and the ability to deal a little damage in an interesting manner.

Theres nothing wrong with it except Blizzards decision to use it as a filler move for even a single target rotation. People insist on seeing it as a low damage AoE spell with a stun side effect when what it SHOULD be seen as is an anti-demon/undead AoE stun that also deals damage as a bonus.

It stinks in one role but excels in the other.

EJL

[shadowkras]

Usefull? Well on certain speccs it might be, but for me as Ret who does mostly pvp, i wouldnt call it usefull, just breaks aoe if not being cafefull, dmg is bad, and that aoe stun is nice on... DK's ud army? :P I agree that its best to used to kill critters around the world :P

Then you are a terrible one.

It can stun:
Warlock pets.
DK pets.
DKs using Lichborne.
Shaman elementals (if glyphed).
Boomkin treeants (if glyphed).


And about 80% of everything you will encounter pve-wise.

[zcks]

And according to other simulation sites, but especially other players, Enhancement Shamans, Destro Warlocks, Frost Mages, Survival Hunters, Arms Warriors, Unholy Death Knights and Balance Druids are also the lowest.

Funny you mention those specs because if you look at the numbers every single one of them is either A: Far ahead of ret in terms of numbers (often even utility & or offensive control) or B: can easily swap to a far better spec because the class has another one that fills the exact same role. Paladins do not have that luxury & must reroll completely in order to be anything but subpar for dps considering the time & effort the put into it vs what they would with other classes.


Also if you count having these problems fine then I think you need to look up the definition of the word.
1: extreme reliance on RNG procs for fillers
2: extreme reliance on RNG procs for resource generation
3: horrible horrible gap closing mechanics that don't assure any time on target
4: being easily countered by any mage, shaman, priest, hunter or felhunter pet because they can offensively dispel.

I'm not going to advocate ret being up there with the top 5 specs but it should not be dead last (& so far behind the other end of the pack dps specs.). That being said the defensive utility the spec brings & can use on others is at this point a bit to high for balance. If they were to slightly lower that offensive utility (just how effective it is on others) then give the spec a slight dps boost (while fixing its RNG problems) & a bit more offensive utility (reliable gap closing etc..) then it would be in a much better spot.

This is because it's a well known fact that the defensive hybrid model simply cannot be balanced properly for this game, even blizzard admits that. Sadly they won't allow the effort to be put in for ret to be designed properly so its stuck in that role.

---------- Post added 2011-09-15 at 04:40 PM ----------

Arcane says hi.

Vanilla: No primary nuke
BC: Only Arcane Blast. It wasn't really developed yet.
LK: Finally! We get a decent arsenal, but no good rotation.
Cata: Even worse than previous rotation and more boring due to the crappy Mastery we were given.

I never disputed that arcane has had trouble at some points, however as a mage you can simply respec to fill the role of dps because at least 1 of the class has always had great tools/dps/control for its given job weather that job be in pve or pvp.

[Vuagnon]

They should decrease the damage of Holy Wrath, it hits way too hard. Not fair against Warriors and Mages.

[Deleted]

Holy Wrath is one of the most useful abilities in the Paladins arsenal. Just...it shouldn't be part of our rotation. It should be a stand alone utility.

This. Using Holy Wrath for single target feels wonky as.

[Christan]

Holy Wrath is one of the most useful abilities in the Paladins arsenal. Just...it shouldn't be part of our rotation. It should be a stand alone utility.

glyphed wrath on rag elementals, in a group without knockbacks is sexy.

extra stun is extra, the utility of this is awesome.

[Deleted]

Yeah utility is awesome but, the fact we use it in a single target rotation is not <.< Why do we have to deal with this stupid bullshit <.<

[Shelly]

Simple and good fix:
"Holy wrath also affects all targets hit with a 5-stack censure." this will buff AOE quite a bit and would help stack 5 censures quickly. and would have NO effect on boss fights. Brilliant right ??

You do realize this is a horrible idea because one of the things that they count on with our need to have a ramp of to 5-stack of censure is that it will lower our burst but increase our sustained damage right?

Not saying it doesn't need a fix, but really the problem is pretty much where everyone put it, it shouldn't be a filler attack when you're just out of stuff to do with Ret. It should be part of our AoE rotation and does indeed help keep undead and other mobs that are affected by it being glyphed inside the AoE killzone and not running after the guy with the huge nuke AoE.

So really before we can talk what may be deficient in our AoE let's get our single-target and even better yet our overall dps figured out.

[Incuded]

I don't think it's dumb, I just think it needs a much better animation. Rather than having the bolts of light fly out of your hand, why not have them come from the sky down onto the enemy, like Priests Holy Fire.

[Eon Drache]

Oh my god, there's so much shit wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin. Well, I guess first off, every spec you've mentioned has an alternative DPS spec, for one. The next thing is he that clearly stated worst class, which you then listed specs for no reason. The only legitimate CLASSES in comparison to DPS are Shaman and DK out of all of those when you include all of their DPS specs, which Frost DKs and Elemental Shamans do better than Ret, too.


Then there's all of that wrong with what you said about Balance Druids, plus the fact that Balance Druids are one of the higher damaging specs. See: [literally every site that records parses ever] They're doing MORE than good.



Except that, when you take into account all the DPS specializations that every class has, Paladins are literally the lowest DPS class, period. Let's just ignore that fact, I guess? I really want to call you an imbecile right now.

Darn you XD I was going to say that. And yes, I stated class because you can't respec for more skill in Retribution. Using the word skill loosely.

Edit: Put Respect instead of Respec.