Why I've moved to only supporting indie games....

[hakujinbakasama]

So, a lot of my friends get on me about being so "negative" towards the gaming industry and the companies which back said industry. While I've tried to explain myself over and over again, each time I've felt as if I've just not made it clear enough.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...ndo-of-America

Here is a good example of why I no longer support this industry model and why it is that I personally get annoyed by people who do give these people money.

There is a great line between a "gamer" and "I like Zelda!" I had an ex once who loved video games.... that is to say she had masturbatory fantasies over Final Fantasy 7, but I wouldn't qualify someone who enjoys a specific franchise a "gamer." I tried really hard to find an analogy for this complicated issue but utterly failed to do so. In no other industry can I really equate a good enough comparison to the annoyance I find with the video game industry and its supporters.

Because I lack a better example, let me use Square Enix for a moment.

Listen, I understand there are those out there who don't know anything more from this combo company than Kingdom Hearts and "zomg FF10 was the best game ever!" and to those people I'm not talking to you because your actually not important in this. Who I am talking to are those people who remembered being so utterly excited about a release date of a Squaresoft product for their SNES that they damn near peed themselves. Yeah you know who you are. Let me ask those people a second here. When you read that the head of Square says in order for the company to give a damn about another Chrono or Mana title you need to buy a reprint of a game you bought/beat/and possibly still own from 1992 AGAIN, in order to increase sales for something that has several million in combined sales since its original release, or they will never consider making another one, WHY IN THE HELL do you keep sending money to them?

When Nintendo refuses to enter the modern world and localize products, but you still pay them money because you can't otherwise play Zelda XXIV, you realize that you're supporting a company who doesn't really care about putting forth effort back to you right?

I cannot think of another industry in which this sort of consumer behavior trend seems to also apply. I "believe" it could be said that this sort of shit goes on in the music industry, but seeing as how we almost destroyed that front and forced a business model change, I wouldn't really count that.



Rant out.

[Deleted]

sucks to be you then, there are loads of great games coming out in the next few months that the rest of us will enjoy.

[Fancyfeast]

sucks to be you then, there are loads of great games coming out in the next few months that the rest of us will enjoy.

QFT.

Why do you care so much what other people think about games, or even more abstractly, "the industry" as a whole? A gamer is someone who likes games. Period. The only problem I have with the gaming world is elitists like you.

Play what you like, don't play what you don't. You "only supporting indie games" is just as narrow minded and stupid as someone only liking Final Fantasy.

[Tekko]

sucks to be you then, there are loads of great games coming out in the next few months that the rest of us will enjoy.

This ^^ I have no problem giving a company money if they make a game I wanna play.

You're the one missing out.

[Sieger1145]

I'd say it's more a supply and demand issue with JRPG games. Your US playerbase is a group that buys buys buys. There's no "reason"(read financially) for them to translate and convert over. The reason a smaller company would be doing just that is because they don't have the buyers in japan alone.

That chart about how many people buy games in NA, Europe, and Japan is skewed. It has to be adjusted for population before it would have any compelling value.

In any state, I'm with you on supporting the indie game developers, but in the end they're just trying to get to the top like EA and Activision and nintendo. It's all about profits and if they're not releasing a game here in the US it's because the profit margins aren't great enough so they'll release their umpteenth zelda game instead and pull exponentially more money.

Also that video is so vulgar it's ridiculous, the guy has a point though.

[hakujinbakasama]

QFT.

Why do you care so much what other people think about games, or even more abstractly, "the industry" as a whole? A gamer is someone who likes games. Period. The only problem I have with the gaming world is elitists like you.

Play what you like, don't play what you don't. You "only supporting indie games" is just as narrow minded and stupid as someone only liking Final Fantasy.

I believe you missed the point. If you were to constantly go in to a restaurant in which the staff constantly treated you like shit, I doubt the 2 meals out of the 100 on the menu would keep you coming back. At some point, while constantly pulling up in your Ford Fiesta, you'd become greatly annoyed that your money was paying for the owners Ferrari and the staffs BMWs. Sooner than later, you'd simply refuse to indulge yourself at the saving of your pride and dignity. However, when it comes to video games and its consuming locust, there never seems to be a problem with this sort of treatment.

As long as the company comes out with those 2 easily pooped out titles, you're happy to purchase them and throw money as if to thank them for their minimal efforts. Which is really odd considering that they intentionally will not put forth the effort to bring more to you. People who have gotten tired of that aren't suffering from "elitism" their suffering from a lack of stupidity. It doesn't mean that myself or anyone else feels that the games a company like Nintendo does localize aren't "good", but that there are other games out there by people who want to give to their consumers who are perhaps more "worthy" of getting my money. That is the same driven concept as the "vote with your wallet" bs with a company like Blizzard when something is going wrong with WoW.

This isn't an issue of "elitism" because if it were, than anyone who ever decided that their money was better spent supporting people/companies/hobbies in which the supplier better respected them would then too fall to prey of "elitism." And if you honestly believe that the aforementioned is an issue of elitism then the real problem is that you suffer from denial.

[Faile]

I agree with the OP.

the gaming industry has definitely become more about making money then anything else. too many games these days come out and have amazing graphics and sound effects and famous voice actors but lack any sort of gameplay at all. in terms of making money its actually not a bad short term way of selling games. the problem here though is that by the time you realize these games have no real substance, the company already has your money and is marking you ( and countless others) as a number in a report saying you must have enjoyed the game since you bought it.

a great example is FF13. in the first week over a million copies sold. but after a month only another 2 or 3 hundred thousand sold. This suggests that a lot of people bought the game based on the graphics they saw in the commercial and the Franchise name. but then sales dropped a lot due to all the really bad reviews the game got.

I think a big problem is older gamers today are used to the golden age of video games that were made for gamers by gamers. this industry used to be a very niche market and companies had a pretty narrow demographic that really only cared about game play. these days everyone and their mother plays video games and many are just casual gamers that only play for a half hour to an hour here or there so companies only really need to make their games interesting for an hour at a time anyway. not to mention these "anti-gamers" are the kind of people that see pretty shinies in the commercial and assume its going to be a good game.

I think indie games are getting back to those roots of games made by gamers kind of ideal which is a much needed thing in the growing industry

tldr; where there's money, there will be greed. and these days theres a lot of money in the gaming industry

[Deleted]

I can't say I really care.

Sure I'd be annoyed if a company chose not to release a title I wanted to play in my region but it is their choice at the end of the day. I (and you) have no right to insist they should release it here just as we have the right to get annoyed at that I guess.

But to choose not to play what good titles ARE released in this region is a simple case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I buy the games to entertain, and whilst they continue to do so, I shall continue to purchase. Our contract fulfilled.

[Duts]

u mad brah?

< please post constructively >

[JustintimeSS]

Here is a good example of why I no longer support this industry model and why it is that I personally get annoyed by people who do give these people money.

I read your whole shpeal but this part is what i want to reply to.

Why does what I do with my money or what game I want to enjoy annoy you? How about I set up a money management account for you to control for me and you buy my games for me, that way you're happy. Because my (and everyone else's) happiness should stem from yours.

[Digglett]

There is a great line between a "gamer" and "I like Zelda!"

You lost me here.

[Kavoo]

So, youre not as hot as Sephiroth, eh ?

[hakujinbakasama]

I can't say I really care.

Sure I'd be annoyed if a company chose not to release a title I wanted to play in my region but it is their choice at the end of the day. I (and you) have no right to insist they should release it here just as we have the right to get annoyed at that I guess.

But to choose not to play what good titles ARE released in this region is a simple case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I buy the games to entertain, and whilst they continue to do so, I shall continue to purchase. Our contract fulfilled.

I think I probably did my self some injustice by not going in a bit further on this. I never said that I do not "play" other games. I just said that I do not "support." And in equal terms that means I no longer give money to the types of companies or institutions listed or apart of the conceptual problem.

Further more, I guess I will agree more with what another poster commented on. I'm one of those people nearing my 30s who remembers gaming all of his life in one form or another. I and other friends or associates have worked in various professional industries and probably gotten to the point of maturity on this level a bit quicker than most. And that isn't a jab that other people are being necessarily immature but more to the point that the older you get the wiser you tend to get about the world at large and how you specifically help to aid in various events or scenarios.

Frankly, this is another part of the whole pie as it were. When people complain about the future of gaming with regards to pass key codes or the debate over the Used Game market, people let their opinions fly on how they feel the industry should operate, but they seemingly do so with a sense of ambiguity and removal of them selves as a part of the collective. At some point you either wake up and realize that every dollar you spend helps to keep things moving in a specific direction, and more often than not, it is a direction which most people don't like in the end. You can easily relate similar examples to modern politics.

Fact remains, its easier to shrug and take it then it is to actually refuse to be a part of it. By and large, people don't like it when you point out that they are helping to aid in a problem that even they don't agree with if it means you are pointing out the only way for them to change it is to seemingly make a self sacrifice...even when it really isn't. Insults aren't going to change facts; so I don't mind a little hostility. Companies like Nintendo, Ea, Activations, Sony, and many others don't care about the end users, they care about annual profits. And as long as more people stay in line with the mainstream their profits will continue while innovation and effort get pushed to the side.



And to simply comment. This isn't an issue of JRPG. As an example, Sony has a long history of shooting down titles because they didn't push system specs....
"According to IGN's sources, both games were showed to Sony Computer Entertainment America last summer, but Sony turned them down, responding that neither game showed off the PS2's technical strengths well and that Sony might look at them at a later date. Since sales of Viewtiful Joe were respectable for GameCube, it's possible SCEA changed its mind and is indeed considering bringing the cool 2D action game to PS2."

"SNK’s US offering, headed up by the infamous Ben Herman, has had some difficulties in its attempts to get games already on open sale in Japan accepted as stand-alone PlayStation 2 releases. “Sony just isn’t interested in 2D games anymore – whatever it might be,” exclaimed Koyama-san. “And yet many games, as long as they are in 3D, trickle through all the time. It’s a crazy situation and we don’t believe it reflects the needs of game consumers.""

"Metal Slug 3 will not be comming out on the PS2 in USA! and the reason for this is because that SONY of USA have blocked it because it was 2d and nobody likes 2d!!!"

---------- Post added 2011-09-22 at 12:53 PM ----------

You lost me here.

Context is given directly afterward explaining that there is a difference between someone who likes a culture to that of one who likes a franchise.

It's the same as someone who says they like "Rock music" but listens to only classical music save for "Metallica." If that still "confuses" you, there isn't much I can do to help you.

[Letanitus]

I believe you missed the point. If you were to constantly go in to a restaurant in which the staff constantly treated you like shit, I doubt the 2 meals out of the 100 on the menu would keep you coming back. At some point, while constantly pulling up in your Ford Fiesta, you'd become greatly annoyed that your money was paying for the owners Ferrari and the staffs BMWs. Sooner than later, you'd simply refuse to indulge yourself at the saving of your pride and dignity. However, when it comes to video games and its consuming locust, there never seems to be a problem with this sort of treatment.

As long as the company comes out with those 2 easily pooped out titles, you're happy to purchase them and throw money as if to thank them for their minimal efforts. Which is really odd considering that they intentionally will not put forth the effort to bring more to you. People who have gotten tired of that aren't suffering from "elitism" their suffering from a lack of stupidity. It doesn't mean that myself or anyone else feels that the games a company like Nintendo does localize aren't "good", but that there are other games out there by people who want to give to their consumers who are perhaps more "worthy" of getting my money. That is the same driven concept as the "vote with your wallet" bs with a company like Blizzard when something is going wrong with WoW.

This isn't an issue of "elitism" because if it were, than anyone who ever decided that their money was better spent supporting people/companies/hobbies in which the supplier better respected them would then too fall to prey of "elitism." And if you honestly believe that the aforementioned is an issue of elitism then the real problem is that you suffer from denial.

Dicks Last Resort would like to say hi. The waiters will throw your napkins and straws at you, they will make jokes about your weight, or how much beer you'd order, there are also napkins and straws all over the floor, and yet somehow with all of those things and more people still go there, and they have locations all over the US. That is the thing, you can't just throw in every single company/group into one category, there are and will be exceptions. It doesn't matter to them if you buy a game or not cause there will be more people who don't care that they won't make a remake of a 10-20 year old game just because that group wants it.

[hakujinbakasama]

I read your whole shpeal but this part is what i want to reply to.

Why does what I do with my money or what game I want to enjoy annoy you? How about I set up a money management account for you to control for me and you buy my games for me, that way you're happy. Because my (and everyone else's) happiness should stem from yours.

It annoys me because people don't think about what cause they have in the whole of things. If you want to make it personal then by all means.

Example:
Nintendo specifically exclaimed that the DS would not replace the Gameboy. It did. They then focused all of their handheld efforts into a system which forced a mechanic that many people did not want a part of. Where as the Gameboy, though various means, could allow for TV play (using a cart system such as that on the SNES or Gamecube) there is no such feature (possibly ever) for DS titles due to the requirement of many games utilizing the touch screen in either form.

This isn't an argument of how a company has a justification to make money based off of their market. If you really want to argue that I hope you're standing in the same line for Violent Media and every venue of Pornography because they too are appealing to a market. The point I made was that the end users of that market effect that market by their decisions to support things with not thought to how their money shapes the industry, and more so they refuse to accept that they've had a hand in it an continue to support it with a sense of denial and contentment that it isn't their fault and they can't do anything about it so they might as well keep funding it.

[DrakeWurrum]

QFT.

Why do you care so much what other people think about games, or even more abstractly, "the industry" as a whole? A gamer is someone who likes games. Period. The only problem I have with the gaming world is elitists like you.

Play what you like, don't play what you don't. You "only supporting indie games" is just as narrow minded and stupid as someone only liking Final Fantasy.

QFT right here.

Video games are really not something to get political about. Stop worrying about what other people do with their money in the gamer market. If they enjoy the product, they will buy it. If a LOT of people enjoy the product, that product is a big success and the company will build on it further to capitalize on it. If you didn't like the product, that's your problem.

[Arganis]

Rosy nostalgia goggles: check

Over inflated sense of self worth that leads to "my argument is on another level, one you wouldn't understand.": check

Over complicated argument hiding the fact you simply don't want to pay $9.99 for another copy of Mana or whatever: check

Conclusion: if you're not happy then just don't buy the game(s), nobody is forcing you. You won't change the gaming industry by whining about it. The world is ruled by money and that's just the way it is.

[Deleted]

Oh look. Hipsters are everywhere these days.

[Doonie]

You lost me here.

I loved this. Zombie Link avatar, Link + Zelda Signature. This guy who loves a WELL EARNED fantastic classic game series is more affected by the OP's dumb comment than anyone.

I agree with everyone who has disagreed with the OP. Lots of games are good.. Not just Chrono Trigger and some other bullshit that nobody has ever heard of.

I think this guy is a new breed called "Gipster" Gamer + Hipster.

Stuck in the mentaility of "I was into that game before it was cool."

For all our sakes. keep it off the internet and keep it in your basement dwelling mouthbreathing head of yours.

[hakujinbakasama]

QFT right here.

Video games are really not something to get political about. Stop worrying about what other people do with their money in the gamer market. If they enjoy the product, they will buy it. If a LOT of people enjoy the product, that product is a big success and the company will build on it further to capitalize on it. If you didn't like the product, that's your problem.

It's funny that you say that because you simply cannot support it when challenged. If you were to pick a game franchise you simply cannot stand and then imagine an industry where 95% of all games or more that were coming out where modeled off of that because that is what sold, you would probably get pretty upset. If at the same time, the 5% that weren't happened to be developed in a country in which you cannot speak the language, you would probably get pretty upset. However, remember, you don't like the other 95% of the product and "that's your problem."