What % of Ret dps does each skill make up?

[Felixphaeton]

Assuming BiS 4.2 gear, what % of our dps does each of our skills sim to be? As in...Templar's Verdict is 18%...etc. I need these numbers to do some simple math to calculate how much dps the current T13 Ret 2pc actually gives.

[holyman]

I think the easies way to find this out is if u just go bash it out on a dummy. Do it 5-6 times and get an avrages. Seeing as u wanna do some math cor it u might aswell give urself the best conditions as what u can. I think its differs for every1 anyway. 1 i do know is CS is around the 30% mark

[Lucetia]

Assuming BiS 4.2 gear, what % of our dps does each of our skills sim to be? As in...Templar's Verdict is 18%...etc. I need these numbers to do some simple math to calculate how much dps the current Ret 2pc actually gives.

Best bet would be to sim this yourself in whatever gear you are using. The simulation should tell you exactly what amount of damage/dps/total % the 2pc is giving you.

[Felixphaeton]

I need the numbers for a light theorycrafting debate on the battle.net forums, so I should avoid personal gear. I still have the T11 2pc that skews results, personal skill issues, etc. I'll resort to that if I have to, but it makes whatever numbers I come up with lose what credibility it has.

Edit: I forgot a key piece of info in the OP. I meant T13 2pc. I want to calculate how much DPS it should give.

[Nyghtfall]

Simcraft with t12 heroic BiS is as follows:

Templar's Verdict: 18.3%
Hand of Light: 18%
Crusader Strike: 13.2%
Melee: 8.4%
Seal of Truth: 8.1%
Censure: 7.9%
Exorcism: 6.4%
Hammer of Wrath: 4.8%
Judgemetn of Truth: 4.7
Seals of Command: 3.6%
Flames of the Faithful: 2.0%
Holy Wrath: 1.7%

[Felixphaeton]

Thanks very much!

[Lucetia]

I need the numbers for a light theorycrafting debate on the battle.net forums, so I should avoid personal gear. I still have the T11 2pc that skews results, personal skill issues, etc. I'll resort to that if I have to, but it makes whatever numbers I come up with lose what credibility it has.

Edit: I forgot a key piece of info in the OP. I meant T13 2pc. I want to calculate how much DPS it should give.

To be completely honest with you no number is going to be exact. You can't assume people wearing T13 will be in BiS 4.2 gear. By the time most get it they will be in 4.3 gear. In order to get more tuned numbers we need to wait for the PTR so that we can see what gear is available and how that influences it. One of the biggest factors of TV is weapon damage.

Also, not really sure how you are going to calculate Judgement giving a 50% chance ever 8 seconds for 1 HP. If everything went perfect you would have 3 HP in ~8 seconds, if things go bad then it's ~12 seconds.

[Nyghtfall]

Your welcome, but i don't think i have updated it since the censure hotfix so they may be a little off.

[Felixphaeton]

To be completely honest with you no number is going to be exact. You can't assume people wearing T13 will be in BiS 4.2 gear. By the time most get it they will be in 4.3 gear. In order to get more tuned numbers we need to wait for the PTR so that we can see what gear is available and how that influences it. One of the biggest factors of TV is weapon damage.

Also, not really sure how you are going to calculate Judgement giving a 50% chance ever 8 seconds for 1 HP. If everything went perfect you would have 3 HP in ~8 seconds, if things go bad then it's ~12 seconds.

If Judge is used on CD, you will Judge 7.5 times per minute, which results in 3.75 HP per minute with T13 2pc. This, in turn, nets 1.25 TVs per minute. I was going to use the % of our damage TV accounted for to estimate the damage a TV should do for a paladin doing 30k DPS (arbitrary number), and use that to estimate how much of a gain we should be getting.

However, I just realized that for this approach to work, I also need to know how many times, on average, a Ret uses TV per minute, including DP procs. Does anyone by chance have this info?

[Lucetia]

If Judge is used on CD, you will Judge 7.5 times per minute, which results in 3.75 HP per minute with T13 2pc. This, in turn, nets 1.25 TVs per minute. I was going to use the % of our damage TV accounted for to estimate the damage a TV should do for a paladin doing 30k DPS (arbitrary number), and use that to estimate how much of a gain we should be getting.

However, I just realized that for this approach to work, I also need to know how many times, on average, a Ret uses TV per minute, including DP procs. Does anyone by chance have this info?

You need to account for less judgements. You can perform 7.5 judgements if you judge exactly on cooldown. This is not the case, sometimes it's on cooldown during filler phase, comes up just as CS comes up, a Divine Proc occurs, Excute phase, etc.

You would be better off saying you will use judgement 6 times in a minute (gives 12 seconds leeway whereas the other is 4 and not always viable. So the T13 2pc bonus will give you either 1 extra TV or WoG each minute with the assumption you are already keeping Inquisition up before it falls off.

[Deleted]

You need to account for less judgements. You can perform 7.5 judgements if you judge exactly on cooldown. This is not the case, sometimes it's on cooldown during filler phase, comes up just as CS comes up, a Divine Proc occurs, Excute phase, etc.

You would be better off saying you will use judgement 6 times in a minute (gives 12 seconds leeway whereas the other is 4 and not always viable. So the T13 2pc bonus will give you either 1 extra TV or WoG each minute with the assumption you are already keeping Inquisition up before it falls off.

definately beter going with a less judges per minute model due to RNG as with enough aow and dp procs you can go 30 secs without judging, also every other minute we are doing a higher % of TV's due to zealotry and due to rotation being somtthing similar to :
cs->tv->how->cs->tv->judge->cs->tv->how->cs->tv->judge->cs->tv->how
however thats assuming 0 AoW's as those would be used instead of judges and also assuming no dp's which would also be used instead of how's which would them push the how back to replace the next judge generaly resulting in no judgeing for zealotry duration. which in T12 bis is the extended duration not the base.

also you ave to consider that 1 extra hp will not just be 1 extra tv after 3 procs. but i am not sure how you could model that as i don't simcraft myself.

[Felixphaeton]

You need to account for less judgements. You can perform 7.5 judgements if you judge exactly on cooldown. This is not the case, sometimes it's on cooldown during filler phase, comes up just as CS comes up, a Divine Proc occurs, Excute phase, etc.

You would be better off saying you will use judgement 6 times in a minute (gives 12 seconds leeway whereas the other is 4 and not always viable. So the T13 2pc bonus will give you either 1 extra TV or WoG each minute with the assumption you are already keeping Inquisition up before it falls off.

I believe that the T13 2pc is underpowered in terms of DPS boost, and I am trying to prove it to someone who believes that it is near overpowered. Thus, if I can prove that the bonus is lacking even with Judge being used on CD, then the it will surely be underpowered if we take into account that we don't Judge on CD and the bonus does nothing under Zealotry.

Anyways, I'm going to need a different approach if no one knows how many times a Ret uses TV in a minute, or at least how many times TV is used in a certain length of time of a sim.

Any ideas, anyone?

[NotValidAnymore]

Judgemetzen of Truth: 4.7%

Wait what?

[Butosai]

Simcraft with t12 heroic BiS is as follows:

Templar's Verdict: 18.3%
Hand of Light: 18%
Crusader Strike: 13.2%
Melee: 8.4%
Seal of Truth: 8.1%
Censure: 7.9%
Exorcism: 6.4%
Hammer of Wrath: 4.8%
Judgemetn of Truth: 4.7
Seals of Command: 3.6%
Flames of the Faithful: 2.0%
Holy Wrath: 1.7%

Censure is closer to 10% now, simcraft mus tnot have been updated with the ret buff

[anaxie]

Hand of LIght also hasn't been below Templars since AoK became widely used.

Plus any work you are putting in is completely and utterly moot. It's the final tier so we can expect hopefully stellar tier itemization and a wider variety of offset choices, atleast in the 396 department from Valor items. However skills, damage, and even talents are very likely to be tweaked this coming patch, expect to see judgement up there with Censure and auto attack on % of damage next patch.

[Butosai]

Hand of LIght also hasn't been below Templars since AoK became widely used.

Plus any work you are putting in is completely and utterly moot. It's the final tier so we can expect hopefully stellar tier itemization and a wider variety of offset choices, atleast in the 396 department from Valor items. However skills, damage, and even talents are very likely to be tweaked this coming patch, expect to see judgement up there with Censure and auto attack on % of damage next patch.

i propose that no one can post on the pally forums from now on unless the word "moot" is included in the post.