1. #1

    [Spoilers] Caithe...

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/t...-thorns-beats/

    Wait, what? Caithe turned out to be a traitor? Why? (I don't have the season quest for it, so I can't play through it to see for myself).

    I want the full story!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    Annnnnnd...this is the point you should be euthanized for the betterment of humanity ;p
    Thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Catta View Post
    Val, im going to start punching you and Im not going to stop.
    You go do that pal!

  2. #2
    Not a traitor, just...protected information. If you'd like to play it, you can always join someone playing it, just can't get the achieves without buying it. If you'd like (and are on US servers), add me: Rhandric.9861

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  3. #3
    She's not a traitor. She just knows things that nobody else does and keeps it to herself. It's clear that the destination the master of peace brought the egg too was not the current answer because it was over run by mordrem. Caithe knew this so she acted on her own.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  4. #4
    or at least Caithe BELIEVES she knows better.

    Not that it should stop her from explaining things a bit, but plot.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    or at least Caithe BELIEVES she knows better.

    Not that it should stop her from explaining things a bit, but plot.
    I mean do YOU think putting the egg in the center of a mordrem infested maze of elder dragon vines is the way to go? Common sense says no...
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  6. #6
    oh I don't know, I often think the best place to put the worlds most prized possession is to put it in a pit full of a rival's minions

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I mean do YOU think putting the egg in the center of a mordrem infested maze of elder dragon vines is the way to go? Common sense says no...
    I wasn't going to put it there, she stole it from me and then took it into a non-secret lair without explanation...

    I'm not saying the Master of Peace is smart by any means, just saying that while Caithe might believe she knows best, she might just be deluding herself or just plain wrong.

    I mean, we all know I could just put the egg in my backpack along with a plethora of weapons and armor and other gear and Mordrem would never get it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I mean, we all know I could just put the egg in my backpack along with a plethora of weapons and armor and other gear and Mordrem would never get it.
    They'd find it the first time you died fighting them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    They'd find it the first time you died fighting them
    More likely I'd forget which alt has it and it'd be lost forever, but at least the enemy wouldn't get it!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I wasn't going to put it there, she stole it from me and then took it into a non-secret lair without explanation...

    I'm not saying the Master of Peace is smart by any means, just saying that while Caithe might believe she knows best, she might just be deluding herself or just plain wrong.

    I mean, we all know I could just put the egg in my backpack along with a plethora of weapons and armor and other gear and Mordrem would never get it.
    It is caithe, she knows secrets nobody else knows. And the hideout was the entrance to the new area.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  11. #11
    She is a traitor to most characters in the game. From the perspective of a character in the GW universe (even the PC), the cards are stacked against Caithe. She took the egg without telling anyone about her motives. The PC then learns about Caithe's grey past with Faolain. And when you finally get closer to Caithe...you're ambushed by Mordremoth and many Sylvari turn. This marks the 3rd major incident from the perspective of the PC and his/her followers which involves Mordremoth and a Sylvari whose actions may or may not have been influenced by their connection to Mordremoth. The PC can't exactly clear Caithe at this point in the story, not after the way events have lined up.

    PC = Player Character.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    She is a traitor to most characters in the game. From the perspective of a character in the GW universe (even the PC), the cards are stacked against Caithe. She took the egg without telling anyone about her motives. The PC then learns about Caithe's grey past with Faolain. And when you finally get closer to Caithe...you're ambushed by Mordremoth and many Sylvari turn. This marks the 3rd major incident from the perspective of the PC and his/her followers which involves Mordremoth and a Sylvari whose actions may or may not have been influenced by their connection to Mordremoth. The PC can't exactly clear Caithe at this point in the story, not after the way events have lined up.

    PC = Player Character.
    Certainly one way to look at it.

    From a PC perspective, despite Logan (iirc) saying that Caithe is direct, she's actually usually fairly underhanded. She's stubborn, she decides on something and sticks to it, but she often avoids the direct course to take the best course in sight. Everything in the personal story showed that Caithe wouldn't never directly attack problems, but find a means to manipulate, and then go that way. Caithe stole the egg from a place that was surrounded by Mordrem, that Mordremoth was actively enclosing with vines. Caithe then took the eggs to a secret place that she found, a place that Mordrem could not go until we broke the seal. For all intents and purposes Caithe was storing the egg in the safest place currently available at the time. Modremoth's vines are stretching to every corner of Tyria, there is no capital city in Tyria that could shelter the egg. The Priory, Order and Vigil also do not have the means to shelter the egg from a full on onslaught. This is all PC knowledge, because all we know is what has been presented to us in the LS episodes.
    Now the cards are certainly stacked against Caithe for many NPCs, but many NPCs aren't privy to the knowledge that the PCs are privy to, because the PC and Destiny's Edge 2.0 have decided to withhold a lot of information from just about everyone.

    All of that being said. If Anet has been planning the Mordremoth arc since before the game launched, and this was all intended to take us towards Maguuma, I wonder that means about Abaddon then. What does he have to do with Mordremoth? What did the God of Secrets know about this whole nest of secrets? Would we have found out more about Dragons from Abaddon, or about the potential betrayal from the Sylvari? Is there something we still haven't seen yet? Glint was freed by the Forgotten, who were devout followers of the Human Gods, Glint very well could have been freed while Abaddon was still in the Pantheon. Maybe Abaddon was the one that created the secret ritual that freed Glint, and instructed the Forgotten to carry out the ritual.

    Anyways, Caithe has had solid motivations for everything that she's done. She's been actively working to keep the egg away from Mordremoth, doubting her would be like thinking Trahearne was in cahoots with Zhaitan. (I mean, he put the PC in command of a lot of stuff, and every time the PC came back as the lone survivor, he gave the PC a whole new batch of people and sent the PC out again, pretty suspicious behavior when fighting against a necromatic based enemy)
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  13. #13
    Oh I have wild theories about Trahearne too. Its mostly just silly fan fiction.

    There are no accounts of Morde controlling Sylvari from the Pale Tree before the end of LS, but we know he could influence their behavior/mess with them (see Scarlet). Morde also seems like a very aggressive and dominate dragon, quickly moving across Tyria when he awoken and not carrying about moving into the territory of other dragons.

    Morde acted as a voice in the back of Trahearnes head, a voice that drove Trahearne to fiercely and swiftly defeat Zhaitan. A voice that had Trahearne to move the Pact away from the heart of Tyria while Morde was contributing to the lunacy of Scarlet, which led to him being awoken and weakening Tyria. He then manipulated Trahearne into bringing the entirety of the Pact to the Silverwaste, where Morde staged his magnificent ambush. He both devastated the Pact and bolstered his own forces. Morde isn't just satisfied with draining Maguuma of magic, he wants it all. From getting rid of Zhaitan, to getting Scarlet to map the leylines and wake him up, to feeding off the ley lines (briefly until Taimi intervened), to caused a major blow to the Pact Fleet once he no longer needed it.

    Trahearne was being manipulated by Mordemoth this entire time! (Again, just silly fan fiction).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    Oh I have wild theories about Trahearne too. Its mostly just silly fan fiction.

    There are no accounts of Morde controlling Sylvari from the Pale Tree before the end of LS, but we know he could influence their behavior/mess with them (see Scarlet). Morde also seems like a very aggressive and dominate dragon, quickly moving across Tyria when he awoken and not carrying about moving into the territory of other dragons.
    Pretty sure he was asleep, and Scarlet poked his awareness. There's also a bit of a geographical issue, the Pale Tree can shield Sylvari within the bounds of (let's just call it the World At Launch), but outside those bounds it stretches her ability. I wonder if there's also a numerical problem, the more Sylvari the more stretched the protection. In any case, the Soundless have discarded that protection.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Pretty sure he was asleep, and Scarlet poked his awareness. There's also a bit of a geographical issue, the Pale Tree can shield Sylvari within the bounds of (let's just call it the World At Launch), but outside those bounds it stretches her ability. I wonder if there's also a numerical problem, the more Sylvari the more stretched the protection. In any case, the Soundless have discarded that protection.
    Thats why I said it was silly fan fiction.

    Serious lore discussion now though. I think the Pale Tree's "protection" ("protection" because the Pale Tree is actually sort of an anonomly that goes against the true nature of the Sylvari as part of Morde's court), depends on geography and the mental state of the Sylvari. Sylvari are sort of like biological robots meant to execute the will of Mordremoth. The will of Mordre is passed down to the Sylvari though his magical trees (Pale Tree for instance). The Sylvari require this programming because of their accelerated growth rates, without it we can only guess that the Sylvari are left in some sort of zombie/feral state.

    Ventari's Tablet was able to influence the Pale Tree because the Pale Tree was no longer close to Morde, this means that proximity to Morde (and the Pale Tree in the case of Sylvari from the Grove) factors into whether or not he can influence the Sylvari. Sylvari also need some sort of programming/foundation (with the Grove Sylvari its The Dream or the derivative of The Dream, The Nightmare) or again, they become feral.

    Being a feral Sylvari doesn't mean that you're like a rabid animal, but it does leaves the Sylvari mentally vulnerable, perhaps unstable and empty. This is observed in the Soundless who must work hard to keep themselves centered or risk becoming unraveled of falling under the influence of just about anything. Scarlet is another example (can't remember if she was officially Soundless but she also wasn't keeping herself stable by checking in with Pale Tree), who ended up going mad partly do to that fact that she independent while taking in too much without a filter too keep herself grounded. Her mind was too strong for Morde to outright control but not strong enough to not be weakened by constantly having to drive his voice back. You don't check in with the Pale Tree (or the Nightmare in the case of the Nightmare Court) and you risk being open to anything.

    Morde was able to exploit the distance between the Sylvari of the Pact and the Pale Tree with their proximity to him. These Sylvari weren't Soundless but there link to the Pale Tree was probably at a minimum, weakened more by being in Morde's backyard. Those who took their teachings more seriously or perhaps had been to the Grove recently were able to resist Morde, the average Sylvari in the fleet was no match for Morde though. He had no problem taking control of them.

  16. #16
    Caithe has always been sort of a gray character... It's an area the devs have poked at repeatedly. The only thing you can really trust her to do is what she thinks is necessary no matter what. At this point we don't really know why she took the egg or what exactly she is up to. I think traitor is a bit strong because I think her goals aren't very different from our own; she just might go about it in a bad way.

    Scarlet wasn't officially stated as soundless but she is more or less. They choose to cut themselves off from the Pale Tree and the Dream of Dreams and that's what opens them up to Mordy's corruption. As for influencing the Pact Sylvari it probably wasn't proximity alone but also the fact the Pale Tree has been considerably weakened after she was attacked.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/t...-thorns-beats/

    Wait, what? Caithe turned out to be a traitor? Why? (I don't have the season quest for it, so I can't play through it to see for myself).

    I want the full story!
    I know I'm late, but if you want I can queue the story quests up for you to experience. You won't get any achievements, or rewards for doing it, though.

    If not, you can find spoiler-y information on the wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cai...ry_involvement

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