Seal of Insight change harming prot pally old raid soloing?

[Deleted]

Yes, it's a PTR change and we all know these aren't final, but is anyone a bit concerned that this change will affect prot pally soloing in old raids/dungeons?

I may be doing things completely wrong, but I use SoI almost exclusively in these situations since I need the mana for all the self-healing I need to do.

Thoughts / opinions?

[Laquisha]

Shouldn't be going oom as prot, and the heal/mana on swing is still there.

[Deleted]

it will harm ret pvp much more, I think. ret is already struggling with mana in pvp.

We are? /10chars

[Pafinator]

Balancing classes around soloing old raids is important.

Oh wait, IT'S NOT.

[Deleted]

"Quote by Angrypaladin
it will harm ret pvp much more, I think. ret is already struggling with mana in pvp."

except we jsut gained 30% of spirit regen during combat from the change to the talent in holy tree we generaly take.

[Deleted]

Balancing classes around soloing old raids is important.

Oh wait, IT'S NOT.

Did I imply that in my post? NO I DIDN'T. Let me guess, you saw one or two keywords in my post and assumed it was a whine? It isn't. Nice try though.

Soloing old content is going to get a lot more popular in 4.3, particularly with the introduction of transmogrification.

I was looking for other's opinions who may use SoI and how they'll play with this change.

[Pafinator]

Yes, it's a PTR change and we all know these aren't final, but is anyone a bit concerned that this change will affect prot pally soloing in old raids/dungeons?

I may be doing things completely wrong, but I use SoI almost exclusively in these situations since I need the mana for all the self-healing I need to do.

Thoughts / opinions?

I don't think I misread your post. Once again...

Your concern with old raids is not important and by no means should be considered when Blizzard makes changes to class abilities.

If that is not clear enough for you then you have other issues and might consider spending your time elsewhere bettering your comprehension skills.

If you're looking for how you should adjust your play style to adjust to this new change... there are plenty of ways to get mana back and still be able to self heal without needing SOI, ever. L2play.

[Splosion]

now would you be so kind as to ask yourself, how much spirit a ret paladin has? the rest of thinking it out I will leave to you.

I wonder if you understand that ret's mana regen doesn't come from SoI either, you get a spec bonus that gives mana return on judgement. This change does not affect ret.

[Deleted]

I don't think I misread your post. Once again...

Your concern with old raids is not important and by no means should be considered when Blizzard makes changes to class abilities.

If that is not clear enough for you then you have other issues and might consider spending your time elsewhere bettering your comprehension skills.

If you're looking for how you should adjust your play style to adjust to this new change... there are plenty of ways to get mana back and still be able to self heal without needing SOI, ever. L2play.

Your concern with my opinion isn't important either.

And it was most kind of you to suggest I have issues, but I'm fine thank you.

And may I suggest that you are the one who's comprehension is lacking?

Don't look for arguments that aren't there. This is a discussion. Clearly you have bought nothing to it that adds to the discussion, so why bother?

[JayJay09]

"Quote by Angrypaladin
it will harm ret pvp much more, I think. ret is already struggling with mana in pvp."

except we jsut gained 30% of spirit regen during combat from the change to the talent in holy tree we generaly take.

Which wouldn't be much... It's a slight bonus, but we still would have to use cs 30% less mana glyph, cleanse glyph and/or rebuke glyph. At least for RBG where you gotta snare dispell urself pretty much all the time and forever.

[moveth]

now would you be so kind as to ask yourself, how much spirit a ret paladin has? the rest of thinking it out I will leave to you.

I have 180! Thats 60 Mana regen! YAY!. I can cast exactly one extra spell every 8-9 minutes.

[Splosion]

I wonder if you understand, that this judgement mana-regen is not sufficient for ret demands. hence I said *ret is already struggling with mana in pvp.*

---------- Post added 2011-09-28 at 11:15 AM ----------

you know, SOI-judgement thing was pretty useful when getting hard-pinned with snares. you cant afford to use HoF for yourself. You should've known if you had any pvp ret expirience.

Yes it was useful, sure we'll all miss it, but I'm pretty sure most of the time you barely gained any mana because you had to seal-twist to cast judgement in the first place. that's 2 gcds just to get mana to cleanse -> 3 gcds. 4.5 seconds, I'd imagine your target would be long gone by that point.

[Azshira]

I don't think it would hurt soling much due to you still get hp and mana % back per swing.

[Splosion]

gosh...
no pvp experience is no.
you dont sealtwist while being kited/heavily snared.
check out Rashnuxtreme on warcratmovies, he uses SoI alot so he can sustain himself pretty decent while providing gravely needed HoF to his partners.
incase you say whothefukishe, I say hes ~2700 rated ret paladin for 2 last seasons.

Meh. I can't imagine the damage using SoI being that fantastic, but why would you be using it if you're chasing someone anyway? Low pressure is low. But whichever.

As for that ret, the only notable high-ranked ret I've really known about was Vanguards.

[Splosion]

do you apply pressure with Judgement alone? do you care for SoJ procs? or maybe you care for 5-stack SoT judgement? well you gotta stack it, an' the best way to stack it is melee. you use SoI because you need extra mana(and tiny bit of healing) from it so when you finally get into melee zone, you are not oom from constant cleanse-spam and whatnot.
as for the ret, now you know one more

It was more centred around the 10% damage it contributes, but I concede the point. Chances are you're not relying on that, more ret's silly burst. (Every 2 mins :<)

[Splosion]

are you trying to say you rely on ret pressure?
please no, you've gotta be kidding me.
do you even know the reason ret struggles so hard to stay in melee nomatter what?

I don't rely on it, but it certainly helps. and I'm going to figure it's because of mana issues that they can't be in melee a fantastic amount.

However, I'm sure this topic was something to do with soloing :P

[noteworthynerd]

I find that, in most old raids, I never go OOM when using SoT, mostly because I regain mana on parries/dodges thanks to Sanctuary. The only time I have to worry about it is on bosses.

That being said, SoI will still give mana on swing, which should be more than enough to keep most Prot Paladins at max mana.

[EndGame]

Wear an int piece when soloing. The increased mana will scale with sanctuary.

[PhearMark]

For soloing the mana isn't the important bit for prot it's the self-heal from Insight, so you should still be able to do everything the same. Realistically you should also be dodging and blocking plenty to get your mana anyway and if it really comes to it you can always use specific glyphs to improve your mana regen.

[Veliane]

For soloing the Mana Return is/was important for Ret.
The extra 15% on Judge would allow you to use many mana intensive fire and forget abilities while keeping your defensive seal on.

Any boss worth a challenge will demand that, I used Holy Radiance almost on CD while doing Kael and sometimes I get unlucky and have to resort to a hard cast Flash of Light or two.
Both will be impossible to do so without actually nerfing yourself in the proccess after the patch.