Paladin tank - DPS problem

[Deleted]

Hi all!

First of all, here's my armory: http: //eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/ezzored/advanced (cant post links sry)

I have constant aggro problems nowadays with this char. Not losing aggro to DPSers obv, but our raid groups other tank, a DK beats my TPS with like autoattacks... U can see its clearly a problem on boss swaps...

I do like 6-7k DPS raidbuffed, which is extremely low i think.

Obv im reading maintankadin and EJ, know my rotation, etc... The wierd thing is, this problem started like 3 weeks ago, before then, i did 10k+ DPS, adn had no problems with keeping up in threat with the DK i mentioned. No idea, what changed... Replaced some of my gear obv, but that shouldn't affect my threat this much, and i replaced 359s w 378s...

Any ideas what is wrong, what might happened? Thanks in advance!

[Deleted]

You forgot to activate Righteous Fury or you are not pushing your buttons correctly, now which one is more likely? You decide.

[Deleted]

hmm does tank dps realy matter as long you can keep aggro?

[kiwamaru]

Maybe your not using crusader strike single target and using hammer instead.
As for threat Idk...make sure righteous fury is up.
As for dps..I think pali is just lower i never get close to my warrior or dk tanking dps with my pali on trash. single target my pali usually is still behind my dk and warr but only by like 1 or 2k

Sorry no real info to help it seems.

[Ibramgaunt]

well we can't help you without either logs or your explanation of your rotation.

Give us that and we might provide better informations than "make sure Righteous Fury is up" (honestly I was about to do it too ><)

[Deleted]

hmm does tank dps realy matter as long you can keep aggro?

Yes it does

[Deleted]

As long as you hold aggro over the dpsers I really wouldn't worry about it.

But you do have Righteous Fury up I assume. Did you drop a lot of hit / expertise by any chance? It does make a massive difference sometimes when you get 3 misses in a row with Shield of Righteousness.

[assilley]

i think you can make some changes to your spec.. Look at the 0/31/10 spec which is the best threat build. Eternal glory is basically useless now due to WoG's long cooldown so you can drop those 2 points and look at picking up 3/3 rule of law. You can also drop 1 point from reckoning to fill 3/3 RoL.

This will help with your threat and dps as it should be a lot higher than that in a raid scenario. If this helps with your threat then you can look at reforging some more of that hit from your gear to get closer to block cap

[zoefschildpad]

hmm does tank dps realy matter as long you can keep aggro?

If a tank can up his dps by 2k, how would that be any less beneficial than a dps doing the same?

[Deleted]

If a tank can up his dps by 2k, how would that be any less beneficial than a dps doing the same?

I would think that it only really matters for the top top raiders doing the hardest of content without the gear advantage the majority of us have as we push through the same content a few months later... no? Priority should be survivability and holding aggro, more dps is a bonus.

[assilley]

yes it does, because generally the more dps the raid does as a whole.. the less the healers have to heal as a whole.. which also means shiny loots faster

[Sweets]

Tank DPS actually matters, especially since a nice chunk of threat comes from your DPS. I believe 30% now?

[Easo]

Hmmm, my record was 17k on Majordomo 10man normal. Usually its 10-13k on raid bosses. Probably your rotation is wrong.

[shetan]

I really don't understand why people think tank DPS matters...because guess what, it does not. Sure, it's a nice additive to the equation of downing bosses, but it is not necessary. It wasn't until Cata when Blizzard introduced dps for a tank that people suddenly became "OMG...tank dps matters".

Do any of you who state it matters know why Blizzard did it? I'll wager no. The reason it was put in was to making tanking more appealing because there is a major lack of of tanking because the vast majority of players just want to see big numbers. So if tanks could dps, then maybe some DPS classes would be compelled to tank.

Bosses have gone down without tank dps before just fine since the beta, why should it just suddenly matter now in this expansion 6 years since launch? I find it quite appalling that DPS is what marks a good tank or not now a days. If it was the mark of a good tank, than we would be stacking more hit and expertise than neglecting it like the Black Plague.

Threat does not come from DPS...it comes from pushing your abilities as it always has since Day 1 of WoW; if you think otherwise, you haven't been tanking very long. Once Blizzard makes tank threat obsolete, then doing "dps for threat" as Sweets states, will not matter because once a tank looks at a mob, it'll be permanently glued to said tank.




But to the OP, other than the spec change, I would recommend changing your parry/stam gems to parry/mastery gems which with also help close up that 8% CTC gap you're lacking. Dropping the stam gems for a hybrid would also help close that gap. I would also recommend reforging hit to dodge on your weapon as well as on your shield and legs. Having the more mastery not only helps you block more, but also makes your shield of the righteous hit harder which makes your attacks more consistent.

Also, change Dazing Shield glyph to Focused Shield...a boss cannot be dazed. The more consistent you are with damage, the better your threat and focused shield will help that.

[Deleted]

At your current state of gear you shouldnt have any threat problems at all. I believe you're misdoing the rotation. Going from 10k+ to 5-6k is radical and I think you're doing something different than before. Looking at your glyphs you could use glyph of AS (Singletarget only tho).

If you don't see any changes remember that Expertise is the best threat generator before 26 - at that point it becomes hit.

[Meril]

You should take a look at your spec. I personally would lose "Eternal Glory" and Take one point out of "Guarded by the Light" in favor of 3 points in "Rule of law".

[Mystile]

6-7k dps as a tank is really low. Like... super low. Especially in a raid.

Use shield of righteousness at 3 holy power, or inquisition if aoe tanking. Use crusader strike every other global, hammer of righteousness if aoeing. Avenger's shield is your highest damage filler attack between holy power attacks. Holy wrath, judgement, and consecrate are all pretty laughable damage, so it doesn't matter at this point what you use, just hit one of them. Judgement gives back a lot of mana over time though, so take that into consideration. You can also throw in Holy Radiance (until 4.3) for a "cool down" of sorts.

To people saying tank dps doesn't matter.. what is wrong with you? In a game where people sim the hell out of their characters to find the smallest possible dps increases, how is increasing your tank's damage not going to matter? Just because it's not their primary job to deal damage, does not mean their damage doesn't account for anything.

[Deleted]

I assume you are using Seal of Truth when this happens - considering that you have the glyph. I see that you have virtually no hit and expertise as Pallies and Warriors are supposed to have. DKs mastery use kinda requires reliably landing hits, that means DKs are more likely to have hit and expertise. A DK's autoattacks account for a bigger percentage of their damage then a paladin's. That of course if the DK is actually only using auto attacks. =]

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll post logs from tonights raid.

My rotation is good, im 94.6:% sure CS every 2nd global, otherwise: 3HP SotR>AS>Judgement>Holy Wrath>Consecration. RF is obv on, and tanking w Seal of Truth.

Talent and gear: i'll make changes then, thanks.

[Deleted]

Well, this could be a problem .. or it could just be a difference in tanking methodologies.

Right now, Pallies have two choices:

We can spec for DPS/threat which involves prioritising holy power usage to Shield of the Righteous; most paladin tanks do this in order to contribute as much DPS to their collective raid as possible.

We can also spec for survivability/mitigation via Word of Glory and 2/2 Guarded by the Light; for the balls-to-the-wall tank this is the option that maximises survivability and smoothing out incoming damag .. though many feel that on a 102.4% CtC capped Paladin, this is overkill. It'll also result in you having threat issues on any fight that requires taunt switches.

Looking at your talent set, you're now specced for the former, but judging from some of the previous comments in the thread, you've recently respecced away from 2/2 GBTL. Personally, I dual-spec with one of each depending on situation.

One thing I would definately avoid; 1/2 GBTL. Without the overheal protection the benefit of the WoG will be very unreliable; you might end up sitting on 3HP waiting for a heavy hit to come in or you might end up wasting the WoG as an overheal. GBTL is, for me, 2/2 or nothing. You can safely drop a point in Reckoning without affecting your TPS much.

Oh, one other thing .. you have unreforged Parry and your Parry/Dodge are at 15.90% / 13.76%. You're losing a little mitigation to diminishing return, I would recommend reforging your Pants from parry -> dodge, your Axe from hit -> dodge and dumping the stamina trinket in favour of the (Essence of the Eternal Flame)

It's a DPS trinket on paper but that's a hell of a lot of Mastery and I clock you at only 94.54% unbuffed CtC right now .. which is a bit low for heroic FL imo .. the Use ability will also help your threat.