Avenging Wrath

[Manstallion]

Never said it was easy or black and white. For every example you gave it's really easy to counter. To say you don't pvp because another class can counter you just shows laziness.

No, it's broken game design. If one of the core abilities of the class can just be negated with a single spell cast from one of 5 different classes in the game, then that is poorly thought out. Ret paladins rely on cooldowns to do any significant amount of damage. If the cooldowns are taken out of the picture, they are just worthless. It would be different if countering the ability involved a little more strategy in itself, but it's literally as easy as pressing the dispel button when you see the scary man with the wings.

[Lothaeryn]

Never said it was easy or black and white. For every example you gave it's really easy to counter. To say you don't pvp because another class can counter you just shows laziness or skill. There's other major problems with Ret than wings getting dispelled or stolen.

So it would be better to frustrate the fuck out of myself because my class/spec is at a complete disadvantage against half of the other classes in game when the simpler answer would be to not even waste my time losing all day because of this imbalanced PvP system? Your argument that AW is fine as it is was already on thin ice, but now you just made yourself out to be a complete idiot when it comes to ret pvp.

Stunning your opponent does nothing for popping AW, by the time you pop the CD, they will either break the stun or the stun will wear out on its own by the time you get a second TV/HoW ready within a 6 second stun, where 4 of your seconds are wasted due to GCD.

Please leave this forum, you know nothing of how the spec actually runs in a proper PvP scenario and I hardly have the patience to deal with stupidity today.

[Nindza93]

Just make Sanctified Wrath talent give a separate buff which allows using Hammer of Wrath and that buff can't be dispelled and that it lasts for how long Avenging Wrath last...problem solved.

[blazto]

So it would be better to frustrate the fuck out of myself because my class/spec is at a complete disadvantage against half of the other classes in game when the simpler answer would be to not even waste my time losing all day because of this imbalanced PvP system? Your arguement that AW is fine as it is was already on thin ice but you just made youself out to be a complete idiot when it comes to ret pvp.

Stunning your opponent does nothing for popping AW, by the time you pop the CD, they will either break the stun or the stun will wear out on its own by the time you get a second TV/HoW ready within a 6 second stun, where 4 of your seconds are wasted due to GCD.

Please leave this forum, you know nothing of how the spec actually runs in a proper PvP scenario and I hardly have the patience to deal with stupidity today.

First personal insults are easy when you ignore the fact that you picked ret to pvp with. Who's the idiot?! Anyone that takes pvp serious as you sound should know ret is at a disadvantage in the first place. Your whole post has that "MEME" theme which only shows you as the idiot. To sit on a forum and use idiotic reasoning(selfish I want) because you want to fit a square peg in a round hole is hilarious. Don't worry you'll have stupidity all day everyday because you can't escape yourself.

[Malthanis]

How about the both of you calm down? Personal attacks and insults are not warranted in any conversation.

[Lothaeryn]

Is it selfish to actually play a spec I want to, and not the one everyone is pigeonholed into playing? I hardly think so.

If that was the case, why even bother having 3 specs? Just have two, since 1/3 will always be at a disadvantage for any class.

the fact remains that blizzard wants to have a trinity spec system, and their lack of attempts to properly balance one spec while balancing all the other ones shows that there is an underlying issue that they don't want to address, whether it be laziness or just a lack of ideas on fixing ret, doesn't detract from the fact that alot of people play the spec regardless of its shortcomings.

What your basically trying to say is anyone who likes ret is a retard, and that is a case of opinion.

[blazto]

There's a proper time to use AW in pvp. It depends on your opponents and teammate. If you do decide to pvp as ret, EVERYONE knows 99% of pallys open up full guns. Survive the burst and a ret pally is laughed at while being kited around. Use your CDs when you know you can burst someone down or wait for that time to get the best effect from it. There's many counter arguments but ask a high ranked ret pally what they do.

[Lothaeryn]

There's a proper time to use AW in pvp. It depends on your opponents and teammate. If you do decide to pvp as ret, EVERYONE knows 99% of pallys open up full guns. Survive the burst and a ret pally is laughed at while being kited around. Use your CDs when you know you can burst someone down or wait for that time to get the best effect from it. There's many counter arguments but ask a high ranked ret pally what they do.

OFC theres a proper time to use it, but what you fail to mention is WHEN that time is, well? Tell when it is, because i find it VERY difficult to find that "sweet spot" when every class/comp team has one counter to AW at all times.

[Lyese]

AW has had problems since it was first implemented in BC. It's too easy to counter, unlike something like Deathwish which can only be dispelled by 2 classes (although I still think Mind Soothe should be changed to dispel enrages). If they want to have Paladins use nothing but magical buffs, at least give us some sort of dispel resistance/blowback like they ended up doing for SPriests, that way we can force the opposing team to decide whether or not it's worth it to dispel us.

[Chicolatino]

That's what stuns are for. I know about trinkets. Like I said too many scenarios to list. A smart pally will use wings at the right time to get the most out of it. You might not PVP because you open up with everything and end up with nothing. Think of WoW more along the lines of a chess match than Halo or CoD.

I somewhat agree with what he ^^^ says. Yes I think wings getting negated so quickly by more than half the classes/specs is rather dumb and annoying. But at the same time, he is correct. Wings should not be used carelessly. It needs to be saved and used wisely. I generally wait til I have my opponent under a lot of pressure or flee'ing. At that point they are typically more concerned about surviving to negate my wings.

[announced]

this is pretty much the reason rets are lolret in pvp/arena/pve.. no one plays them anymore cause the spec is garbage now.. just do holy/prot cause it doesnt look fixable at all.

[Theleklol]

Just remove the talent (so stupidly op anyway) and buff paladin dmg over all.

I'd actually play PvE Ret if this were the case. Using Avenging Wrath with free hammers feels counterproductive when it overlaps with Zealotry (as far as I know, it's still a dps increase to make them overlap somewhere during the duration of GoAK).

[blazto]

Is it selfish to actually play a spec I want to, and not the one everyone is pigeonholed into playing? I hardly think so.

If that was the case, why even bother having 3 specs? Just have two, since 1/3 will always be at a disadvantage for any class.

the fact remains that blizzard wants to have a trinity spec system, and their lack of attempts to properly balance one spec while balancing all the other ones shows that there is an underlying issue that they don't want to address, whether it be laziness or just a lack of ideas on fixing ret, doesn't detract from the fact that alot of people play the spec regardless of its shortcomings.

What your basically trying to say is anyone who likes ret is a retard, and that is a case of opinion.

It's not selfish at all. You do have the choice though. Balancing ret without making prot more OP or OP in pvp is that hard when you have people just as smart as developers min/max everything. To throw that on Blizz isn't fair. This is a game with many aspects to consider. Imagine if Ret was on par with with other classes or OP as many want. Ret 3.0 ring a bell? Tons of FOTM players which can have a negative effect on comps in pvp and pve.

[Deleted]

gonna side with Lothaeryn on this one

[blazto]

I somewhat agree with what he ^^^ says. Yes I think wings getting negated so quickly by more than half the classes/specs is rather dumb and annoying. But at the same time, he is correct. Wings should not be used carelessly. It needs to be saved and used wisely. I generally wait til I have my opponent under a lot of pressure or flee'ing. At that point they are typically more concerned about surviving to negate my wings.

Thank you. So many pallys just don't understand this.

[Manstallion]

First personal insults are easy when you ignore the fact that you picked ret to pvp with. Who's the idiot?! Anyone that takes pvp serious as you sound should know ret is at a disadvantage in the first place. Your whole post has that "MEME" theme which only shows you as the idiot. To sit on a forum and use idiotic reasoning(selfish I want) because you want to fit a square peg in a round hole is hilarious. Don't worry you'll have stupidity all day everyday because you can't escape yourself.

So your solution to Ret being poor in PvP is to not play Ret. I'm glad you don't work at Blizzard.

[Lothaeryn]

It's not selfish at all. You do have the choice though. Balancing ret without making prot more OP or OP in pvp is that hard when you have people just as smart as developers min/max everything. To throw that on Blizz isn't fair. This is a game with many aspects to consider. Imagine if Ret was on par with with other classes or OP as many want. Ret 3.0 ring a bell? Tons of FOTM players which can have a negative effect on comps in pvp and pve.

Oh yes, magical 3.0, the 2 weeks we were OP and we never got a break after that...

There have been thousands of threads on this forum alone giving easy and reasonable fixes to the current ret system that not only are balanced, but keep the aesthetic of the class in tact without making other specs like prot OP in the slightest.

The fact remains Blizzard still hasnt come up with a proper solution even though many have been describing the flaws and a possible fix to them every time. I honestly dont know wtf they are doing anymore because it seems they can never make up their mind on where they want us to be.

Saying "Go Holy" isnt a fix, its an insult to anyone who actually likes the spec and wants to have fun playing the spec, the last thing i want to do is be some healing bitch for my teammates when i want to kill some people and not have to be a warrior/dk to do it

[Lyese]

It's not selfish at all. You do have the choice though. Balancing ret without making prot more OP or OP in pvp is that hard when you have people just as smart as developers min/max everything. To throw that on Blizz isn't fair. This is a game with many aspects to consider. Imagine if Ret was on par with with other classes or OP as many want. Ret 3.0 ring a bell? Tons of FOTM players which can have a negative effect on comps in pvp and pve.

A) Stop quoting Ret 3.0. DivStorm doing Holy damage lasted about 10 hours on live, and the initial round of nerfs were hotfixed in 2 weeks later. That also wasn't Ret being "on-par" with everyone else, it was Ret being stupidly massively op. We want balance, not to be overpowered.
B) With the new spec system, it's EASY to buff ret without overbuffing prot. That's why they implemented the system in the first place, so they have more knobs to turn. What you're giving is a sad excuse for the shitty design behind the spec, which honestly, went against their design goal (Blizz went on record to say they want Ret to have less burst and more ramp up with steadier damage prior to Cata.) since our only decent option is burst.
C) "Tons of FOTM rerollers" didn't hurt when everyone rolled MS/Druid in S2-4, RMP throughout most of arena, Warlocks when SL/SL was viable, etc etc. Not even during the short lived period when Ret was OP was representation adversely affected, since it was a short window (in fact, gladiator titles had been handed out beforehand iirc because Lavabeard kept making posts to end the season before the patch).

[Deleted]

hi everyone,
as everyone knows retribution paladins can do competitive damage in pvp when they use the ability named "Avenging Wrath", this is a basilar ability becouse with the appropriate talent (sanctified wrath) allows you to use "hammer of wrath" without the enemy has less than 20% of life untill "Avenging Wrath" is active.Ok this is a burst damage but when the paladins fight against the mage, they can steal it. I think that this is not balanced, because there are classes that the copy(dk) or cancel it and becomes very difficle for the paladin to win the duel. so I suggest you put a talent(perhaps in an already existing) that prevents you to delete or steal "Avenging Wrath". but it can be copied, if it would be stolen just copied.
thanks for the answer and sorry for my bad english.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that this guy is a troll, but to any Paladins (Ret or otherwise) who regularly fight and fail to win against DKs:

Stop being so predictable. A lot of DKs are going to open on you with Outbreak, Sim, PoF and their damage trinket - if you use AW here you're pushing their damage through the roof and you're probably going to die. Get Power Auras, make a setting to tell you when you've got Sim on you, and give him something of little use like a Cleanse.

And if you get AW off without them Simming it, don't think you're out of the woods. When I open on a Ret who's either already used AW or has it on cooldown, I wait for him to get low enough to get spooked (Usually 30%) then steal his bubble, kite him over obstacles or around LoS, then when his bubble's ended and he's vulnerable again I'll use it. From there the Paladin usually just runs around in confusion then dies.

[blazto]

A) Stop quoting Ret 3.0. DivStorm doing Holy damage lasted about 10 hours on live, and the initial round of nerfs were hotfixed in 2 weeks later. That also wasn't Ret being "on-par" with everyone else, it was Ret being stupidly massively op. We want balance, not to be overpowered.
B) With the new spec system, it's EASY to buff ret without overbuffing prot. That's why they implemented the system in the first place, so they have more knobs to turn. What you're giving is a sad excuse for the shitty design behind the spec, which honestly, went against their design goal (Blizz went on record to say they want Ret to have less burst and more ramp up with steadier damage prior to Cata.) since our only decent option is burst.
C) "Tons of FOTM rerollers" didn't hurt when everyone rolled MS/Druid in S2-4, RMP throughout most of arena, Warlocks when SL/SL was viable, etc etc. Not even during the short lived period when Ret was OP was representation adversely affected, since it was a short window (in fact, gladiator titles had been handed out beforehand iirc because Lavabeard kept making posts to end the season before the patch).

Melee raid buff says HI!