Why will DPS have to wait longer in LFR?

[Bombkirby]

4 potential idiots or 24 potential idiots. You tell me what's more of a nightmare.

But the 24 will be DIVIDED UP by...6 right? You'll actually be dealing with less idiots! ^_^

[xskarma]

I believe that long queues in the LFG system is one of the major reason behind the LFR tool being only 25-man.

And yes, less waiting for dps.

10's would be unbalanced to quickly if you were to just put people in at random. In a 25 with overlapping buffs and such, the chances of missnig an important one or having an imbalance is virtual 0. In 10's though, getting 2 of 1 class of the same spec could allready unbalance it enough. Also the amount of tanks needed would be astronomical, making it indeed waiting to lnog compared to what we get now.

[Deleted]

U dont wait longer.

6 Heal 2 Tanks / 17 Spots for DDs

Now think ur going a 5 Man how much DDs could go with 2 Tanks....

Assuming same number of tanks are LFR

[xytech]

Yes, dps will have to wait longer in LFR.

You will wait for healer even longer than you waited for tank in lfd.

Consider leveling healer if you want to use lfr without queries(and get satchel).

99% of the community would prefer to queue as dps if dps queue will be as low as tank/healers one.
And any tank/healer would queue as dps even if his only spec is tank/healer and he got just tank/healing gear. I expect up to 5 players in each lfr raid doing less than 10k dps.

Quite sure they said it wouldnt be Call to Arms on it, ofc they could change that.

[stgeorge78]

No way in hell this will ever work. All it takes in LFD is 1 out of 4 to be a bad apple and now you have 24 chances to get a jerkass hellbent on destroying the raid for lulz.

[lakhesis]

I would assume the longest wait would be as a tank. There's half the demand for them in a raid situation that there is everywhere else and the gearing requirements - even in a faceroll raid - are typically harsher than other roles.

DPS should presumably have their queue times improved, although I've got a very strong suspicion that it's going to depend on your armor class if Bliz sticks to their guns - i.e. I'd expect rogues/ferals to have quicker queues than DKs/Warriors/Ret's based on current population numbers.

I think healing will be the holdup and that good healers will be in very high demand.

[Stingray]

In LFD, what's needed is 20% tank, 20% healer, and 60% DPS
In LFR, 8% tank, 24% healer, and 68% DPS

In LFD, Call of Arms is usually tank, but it is healers sometimes, so it's reasonable to assume that tanks are the bottleneck, but just barely. Even more healers are required than in LFD (24% instead of 20%), so it's a pretty sure bet that healers will become the bottleneck and it'll be roughly just as bad as the tank bottleneck is in LFD. Also, consider that people may be less likely to queue for LFR as healers (compared to LFD) for two reasons:

(1) In bad groups (which just about every LFR is guaranteed to be), everyone blames healers for everything that goes wrong
(2) If the culture develops where people bitch at people for rolling "Need" on items that are for an "off-spec" (where "off-spec" means DPS if LFR selected them as a healer), that will encourage even less people to queue as healers for LFR (as would for LFD), since in LFR, people probably do actually want the gear that drops, they're not just running it for JP/VP/gold. Of course, they can just roll Need and tell people to fuck themselves.

Therefore, I'd expect the DPS wait time in LFR to be just as bad, if not worse, than the wait time in LFD.

[Deleted]

More DPS in the game compared to Tanks/healers.

[Grym]

While it is true that there will be more dps, but a lot of tanks and healers probably queue as DPS due to less shit to take and they probably only queue as tank in LFD only to get instant queue to begin with.

[yjmark]

But the 24 will be DIVIDED UP by...6 right? You'll actually be dealing with less idiots! ^_^

24/6 = 4

Same # of idiots But, you can lean on other healers to carry you (can't do that in 5-mans). So, if the damage is quite a bit less than regular raids, healing will probably be easier than some are leading on. Tanking however, you can't really lean on the other tank to help out. Just something to consider.

Personally, I have no idea whose queue times will be longer. I'm jsut looking forward to it.

[Peyj]

Best reason though? Loot. There is NO priority given to tanks or healers on tnaking/healing loot, so every herpderp DPS with a mythical offspec they never use will be needing on them.

This is one of the things that I think really need to be changed at least for LFR. There needs to be some importance placed on "Main Spec" - that is, the role you queued up as. If they changed it in LFD, I'd be quite happy about that, as well.

It never fails to amaze me that someone will criticise someone's performance in a 5 man, then roll for off-spec gear over someone's main spec.

It never fails to amaze me the Paladins/hybrids that queue as Healer (which is what happened in a group I was in recently) and politely ask if they can roll Need on offspec DPS gear. As I was the only one to be affected, I said it was fine. He then proceeded to roll "Need" on healing, DPS and tanking gear, irrelevant of who else rolled. This kind of selfish, greedy behaviour needs some kind of limit.

Just last night I had a guy in my heroic who was running around in Blackwing Descent gear. He was rolling Need on everything he could, and stated the reason as "If I can roll Need, I just do. I figure someone will ask for it if they want the item." I'm sorry, what? You roll Need on everything simply because you can? Being stuck with this kind of guy in a raid group.. What a nightmare.

It kind of needs to be structured like this, in a loot priority system:

1. Main Spec (Spec you're queued/raiding as)
2. Off Spec
3. Greed / Disenchant
4. Pass

Simply put, if it's left the way things are now, the looting is going to be a nightmare. People are going to roll Need on stuff just so they can bargain with it later, to vendor, or whatever other reason they see fit.

There's a scary amount of players who seem to think that just because they can use the "Need" button, they should. On my DK alt, I know at some point I'd like to build a little tanking set. However, I also know the chances of me actually using it are pretty slim. Because of this, I choose to not roll on tanking stuff unless absolutely nobody else wants it. I just don't know why it's so hard for people to show a little courtesy.

[Stingray]

What you said doesn't work. For example, some people will queue as healer even though their real "main spec" is DPS, just to lower queue times (thus helping everyone), and they shouldn't be punished for it. Whatever role they ended up with in the raid is irrelevant. My alt is a healer. If I queue as healer or DPS, and LFR ends up making me a DPS, I guarantee you I will be rolling Need on anything I want for healing.

I suppose you could only let them roll for items that apply to the role(s) they queued as?
edit: for some classes/specs though, such as priest, the items for the different specs are virtually indistinguishable, except trinkets, so you won't know what spec the guy is rolling for anyway.

[Zawani1]

Nervous about idiots who roll on gear they think is good for them O.o

[Rynau]

I really wish I could test it out on the PTR. Since I have never really done much on there I wouldn't know if they let you try the new raid or not before its released? I'm assuming it will work for other raids however.

[Rauxis]

technical solutions to social problems have so far always completely failed in WoW... see Gold trading, AFK botting in BGs, and finally the "Deppen-lotto" called LFD. It will be interesting to watch until rage flood hits the forum. It will be always the healers/tank fault - or the new position of Raidleader (who is expected to be knowledgeable and wise, but has no power whatsoever).

The last step will be to nerf those raids to a point where everything can be done by zerging, mechanics become irrelevant but everyone is in purples :P

[Deleted]

Find a guild with 0 potential idiots imo

Finding such a guild is impossible...every guild will have it's idiots

[Tosu]

17 dps spots, more people roll dps, more dps que in LFR. Bottlenecking, it's as simple as that tbh.

[Xalorith]

Yeah, when you consider it from a ratio perspective, the queue times SHOULD be lower than the LFD, but that doesn't mean it will be. There are many factors involved, such as healers not wanting to queue up because they know there will likely be idiots who just stand in stuff or can't communicate.

Personally my experience with LFD pugs hasn't been horrific, but with a raid size of 25, you can carry a few people easily. Hopefully the times won't be ridiculous

[paladinofcancer]

I don't think anybody besides Blizzard actually knows the exact ratio of tanks to healers to DPS ratio queuing in the LFD system. Absolutely nobody knows what kind of ratios we can expect in the LFR system; it's entirely possible that most raids will be waiting for more healers instead of more tanks.

If you think DPS will EVER be the limiting factor then you're nuts.

They announced it some where but I don't care enough to go find you a source, but it was 2 tanks, 6 healers, and 17 dps.

Despite this DPS will still have a long wait time. It might be a little better than LFD, but healers are going to be the bottleneck for sure in LFR tthat tanks are in LFD.

[Deleted]

The people that raid belong by 90 % to a 10 people team, either by choice either by lack of choices.
The ratio in those teams is 1 tank for 2.5 dps and 1.5 healer.
Now the 25 LFR has a ratio of 1 tank for 8.5 dps and 3 healers.
Count into this that the people that will use the tool, are going to be partialy non raiders as well.
They will tend to chose dps role since tanking for 25 or healing sounds...terrorizing.

Having in mind the above, i tend to expect same queue time for dps in LFR to the one of LFD but mainly because of lack of healers.