[Megathread] StarCraft 2

[MerinPally]

Holy. Fucking. Shit. Well, just lost 8 games in a row because I'm really not right in the head today and throwing away games left right and center, slipped from 1st with a nice lead in my league, to 11th... Then I get another PvP and my heart absolutely sinks. Lets give it a go he says, having never had a pvp go beyond a 4 gate ever (yup) so with no idea what to do I try to muster something together (and have terrible map vision in the process, seriously that and having my army in a useful place to defend more than 2 bases as toss is something I really struggle with). The result was as follows.

http://drop.sc/321592

We have 4 gate, 4 gate hold, immortals, void rays, a proxy pylon attack getting ripped a new hole by immortals, a 3rd being sniped by zealots, in return a 3rd being crushed plus half the army, losing half mine in the process. More zealots taking out the 3rd, a hidden base, more VR's, DT's causing havoc, silly amounts of back and forth and base trading, archons, a shitton of storms absolutely ruining a mineral line, another close fight, then finally a base race when both sides have 3-5 bases, followed by a nexus in each others main, then a terrible mistake by him causing him to lose his army (which I probably could've taken anyway), some micro from me for the first time ever, some decent blink micro from him throughout, 3 hero zealots which almost won him the game, 2 void ray pilots who need to be fired, and then nothing keeping me in the game except for a half built pylon...

If you fancy a laugh at sheer idiocy this is a great one to watch...

[Deleted]

Right, this is gonna sound pretty stupid from someone who is high gold......but as zerg, come mid and late game, am I supposed to just trade armies and out macro Terran and Protoss? 'Cause I swear I have yet to win an army vs army when I'm maxed and they are not. I end up having to take 4 bases just to deal with their 2 and even then it can become a base race.

[Deleted]

Right, this is gonna sound pretty stupid from someone who is high gold......but as zerg, come mid and late game, am I supposed to just trade armies and out macro Terran and Protoss? 'Cause I swear I have yet to win an army vs army when I'm maxed and they are not. I end up having to take 4 bases just to deal with their 2 and even then it can become a base race.

Thing is with zerg you can't just throw units at the terran and remax again and repeat over n over again anymore. It just isn't as effective as it was, especially with drops coming into play. You need the right composition of units to take a straight up engagement, and you need to keep an eye on your drone count. It's very easy, i've done it myself countless times, to attempt to saturate 4 bases and just try the re-maxing thing. It feels like you're winning because you have 4 bases to his 2, and have a decent bank. What's actually happening is you have 90+ drones and you're just sending really low supply armies into really high supply ones and basically wasting units.

What is it you're particularly struggling against in regards army composition? Standard Toss deathball? Mech terran? Heavy widow mines?

Need a bit more information to give you precise advice

[MerinPally]

Right, this is gonna sound pretty stupid from someone who is high gold......but as zerg, come mid and late game, am I supposed to just trade armies and out macro Terran and Protoss? 'Cause I swear I have yet to win an army vs army when I'm maxed and they are not. I end up having to take 4 bases just to deal with their 2 and even then it can become a base race.

Don't sound stupid at all - and I can't answer your question but I just encountered Roach Corruptor Hydra tonight for the first time and lost miserably repeatedly Partially because I'm really not with it mentally, for some reason was like "yeah stalkers and immortals that'll do it" herpderp. Fuck zerg players and tbh dependent on the map, holding that many bases as zerg isn't the hardest thing in the world considering your mobility on creep is absolutely ridiculous and I've seen light move slower than speedlings on creep, magnificent for holding off a drop.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 09:43 PM ----------

Bored out of my mind just taking a break to compose self from SC, decided to replace all pictures in my sisters rooms with pics of Kojak. This one specifically.

[Deleted]

Right, this is gonna sound pretty stupid from someone who is high gold......but as zerg, come mid and late game, am I supposed to just trade armies and out macro Terran and Protoss? 'Cause I swear I have yet to win an army vs army when I'm maxed and they are not. I end up having to take 4 bases just to deal with their 2 and even then it can become a base race.

Considering you're only gold terrrans will be super weak in the lategame due to shitty micro and even if their micro is good they fall behind on macro because they're just gold afterall, if they go bio if you go infestors, banelings, ultralisks etc defend bases, expand, deny expansions dont lose infestors for no good

vs Mech i dont know... try to kill them early i hear mech is very hard to kill late game but i never play mech so I'm not sure

Try to be efficient vs Widow mines, micro your units be careful, terrans has been doing it vs banelings, fungals storms since 2010 im sure zergs can manage it now

Oh and anyone in EU diamond wanna play some games 1v1 sometime? im NoMZTeR #853

[Deleted]

Don't sound stupid at all - and I can't answer your question but I just encountered Roach Corruptor Hydra tonight for the first time and lost miserably repeatedly Partially because I'm really not with it mentally, for some reason was like "yeah stalkers and immortals that'll do it" herpderp. Fuck zerg players and tbh dependent on the map, holding that many bases as zerg isn't the hardest thing in the world considering your mobility on creep is absolutely ridiculous and I've seen light move slower than speedlings on creep, magnificent for holding off a drop.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 09:43 PM ----------

Bored out of my mind just taking a break to compose self from SC, decided to replace all pictures in my sisters rooms with pics of Kojak. This one specifically.

I think you might be higher than me.

[MerinPally]

I think you might be higher than me.

I'm definitely not high I should slap you on the wrists for being a naughty boy! Want a good experience though? Watch this gif at length. We gave it to my mate when he was high once and he sat there staring for 2 hours repeating "the blue gets me man, it just hits me like WOW" It's the Mandelbrot set, and it explores fractals Just zooming in on it for ever...

[Deleted]

attempt to saturate 4 bases and just try the re-maxing thing. It feels like you're winning because you have 4 bases to his 2, and have a decent bank. What's actually happening is you have 90+ drones and you're just sending really low supply armies into really high supply ones and basically wasting units.

This is pretty much my problem, I end up with 70ish drones (as pretty much every pro says to aim for) plus 4-6 queens which is like 80 odd supply. That leaves me with 60ish units (most being being 2 supply) to attack with, which ends up just getting smashed by the combination of static defenses and units for example a few force fields with Colossus behind them or 10 tanks sitting behind walls.

If I sit back and wait for an attack they have maxed out and I cant make units quick enough to stop push.

Generally the only real problem I'm having is with Terran mech and Skytoss. Can't find a composition that takes them out without having to outnumber them dramatically. Normally I would have a tonne of banelings on standby to just roll in from behind when an any ground army moves out but they are useless Vs air and mech.

Try to be efficient vs Widow mines, micro your units be careful, terrans has been doing it vs banelings, fungals storms since 2010 im sure zergs can manage it now

9/10 you die to a widow mine before you even know they are there. Plus they arent a problem, once you know they are up you can easily detect them and set them off with a few zergling before killing them.

[Deleted]

[MerinPally]

Jess Day has passed out on his keyboard and is now drooling on it, as a result of watching the Mandelbrot set whilst high.

[Deleted]

How do you counter early roaches as Protoss? I've lost to roaches 3 time today when doing a standard FFE opening against Zerg. Usually when they attack I haven't gotten my robotics yet and the roaches decimate my gateway units. What can I do to prevent this?

[MerinPally]

How do you counter early roaches as Protoss? I've lost to roaches 3 time today when doing a standard FFE opening against Zerg. Usually when they attack I haven't gotten my robotics yet and the roaches decimate my gateway units. What can I do to prevent this?

Show me a replay, that doesn't sound like you're doing the FFE correctly at all. I'll see if I've got a replay of me doing it at a gold level - it won't be perfect (I'll point out all the wrong bits) but it'll be an idea.

To show me a replay (just incase you don't know, if you do then ignore this) go onto Replays on the menu, find your replay and hit "save" and name it something memorable.

Go to drop.sc and hit "upload" - go to C:/[username]/my documents/starcraft 2/Accounts/[accountname, if you dont see it check the others in this folder]/replays/multiplayer

And then click the one that you've saved as a memorable name Copy paste the URL and it should be there for you to link us!

Edit: Unfortunately I don't have one, I did a clean install of SC very recently and lost a lot of old replays. When I get another I'll let you know unless someone beats me to it, but still show us yours so we can have a look and help.

[Ighox]

How do you counter early roaches as Protoss? I've lost to roaches 3 time today when doing a standard FFE opening against Zerg. Usually when they attack I haven't gotten my robotics yet and the roaches decimate my gateway units. What can I do to prevent this?

Forcefields, or just play it safe and go some 2-3 gate expand build.

[Deleted]

Actually JessDay just found out about the leave league thing. So i left my league, lost all the new placements, went down to bronze. Now i'm seeing how many games i can legit win with a 5drone rush.

I'm 4-0 so far. Including a win against a gold who i'm pretty sure was afk.


@Kaka I generally have a queen per base. At 3 base i have 5 queens, use 2 for creep and send those 2 onto bases as i expand. Dont necessarily need to drone a new base immediately, you can just have it there for larva until you want it. And as you say, 70 drones, about 72 if i'm not getting carried away with droning. i know ret can get away with the numbers i used to try but he's just plain better at the game than me obviously lol. The result should be enough supply to put you about even with any army other than a terran who's pulling scvs and just muling minerals.

If I sit back and wait for an attack they have maxed out and I cant make units quick enough to stop push.

That's where lings and mutas are just so sexy. If you can do run bys with lings and mutas to keep eco down, you can max before the terran or toss and push into him. If you choose good fights you'll always keep him below max. Regarding widowmines, the best way to deal with them i've found, is to get an overseer out to find where they are roughly, then get out just a couple swarmhosts and dot them around the path to have locusts detonate them so you can run over. You're not overcommitting to seige with just a couple, and at the end of the day, the terran has to either move them and be open to having them picked off by mutas, or waste scans trying to kill hosts which didnt really cost you much anyway, putting him behind on eco by having less mules. And in all reality, he'll probably not be in a position to kill the swarmhosts.

You can also use vipers if you get to that point to abduct mines you have vision of straight out of the ground when they're burrowed, meaning they have to reburrow again. The pull itself usually gives you chance to kill it.

Regarding mech the most effective way i've really dealt with it is broodlord swarmhost infestor. You're really slow, but so is he. He either has to march forward and try and kill everything off with scans, or sit and get whittled away. If he tries to march forward you can just chain fungal everything. He'll take a stupid amount of damage in the process, and if you are on 4-5 base to 2-3, you'll have the eco and the larva to replace anything you lose. The terran wont be trading cost effectively, and that's where they just start to die.

That's what's worked for me into low masters anyway. I'm kinda struggling a bit myself now against masters terrans, but it's not straight up engagements that screw me over, it's bio drop play. I'm just not Life

[MerinPally]

I'm just not Life

His lings are imbued by Blizz to be special and better than everyone elses. It's not possible for anyone else to kill a pack of hellions with a pack of lings, similar numbers. Also the 200 cap on units doesn't exist for him, he has lings everywhere on the map. Hundreds of them.

[Deleted]

Show me a replay, that doesn't sound like you're doing the FFE correctly at all. I'll see if I've got a replay of me doing it at a gold level - it won't be perfect (I'll point out all the wrong bits) but it'll be an idea.

To show me a replay (just incase you don't know, if you do then ignore this) go onto Replays on the menu, find your replay and hit "save" and name it something memorable.

Go to drop.sc and hit "upload" - go to C:/[username]/my documents/starcraft 2/Accounts/[accountname, if you dont see it check the others in this folder]/replays/multiplayer

And then click the one that you've saved as a memorable name Copy paste the URL and it should be there for you to link us!

Edit: Unfortunately I don't have one, I did a clean install of SC very recently and lost a lot of old replays. When I get another I'll let you know unless someone beats me to it, but still show us yours so we can have a look and help.

Actually, I just realized my misstake and I feel like a tard now. The games I played against Zerg were on Daybreak where there are 2 ramps. I forgot that I was only walling off the second ramp and didn't notice them slipping in from the other side. But I do wonder, how do I deal with these wide ramps by the neutral? And if you could find me a FFE replay that would be great. And at what supply would it be a good idea to start building more gateways and a robotics facility when doing an FFE?

[Deleted]

Actually, I just realized my misstake and I feel like a tard now. The games I played against Zerg were on Daybreak where there are 2 ramps. I forgot that I was only walling off the second ramp and didn't notice them slipping in from the other side. But I do wonder, how do I deal with these wide ramps by the neutral? And if you could find me a FFE replay that would be great. And at what supply would it be a good idea to start building more gateways and a robotics facility when doing an FFE?

Are you trying to wall of the 3rd as well or? I'm not sure what you mean. If you're just trying to wall of your natural you wall off just in front of your main ramp, not the 2 ramps further out, there's no way you can wall those off

Also regarding the gates. You can add an extra 4 gates per saturated expansion. That's the rule of thumb i've followed. colossus you want out by 12 mins at the latest really. You can push out well with sentry/zealot/stalker with just 3 colossi and do decent damage. Make sure you get thermal lance as well.

[Deleted]

Are you trying to wall of the 3rd as well or? I'm not sure what you mean. If you're just trying to wall of your natural you wall off just in front of your main ramp, not the 2 ramps further out, there's no way you can wall those off

Also regarding the gates. You can add an extra 4 gates per saturated expansion. That's the rule of thumb i've followed. colossus you want out by 12 mins at the latest really. You can push out well with sentry/zealot/stalker with just 3 colossi and do decent damage. Make sure you get thermal lance as well.

The gap that I've marked in red is pretty large. SHould I just keep putting my buildings there?

[Brusco86]

Okay, I was out for awhile after I said i would be monitoring this thread on page 80.

After reading a bit more of some random pages in the thread and the last 3 pages, I've come to the realization that I truly don't spend that much time reading up on strategy. Everyone in this thread knows a shitton more about X build against Y what than I do, yet I am in Diamond.

I've only played 1584(at this moment) through 10 seasons of SC2. (currently 70-67 in 1v1 this season)
When i thought about this for a little longer, it seems to me(after watching a few replays, which i seldom do) the only reason I'm in Diamond is because of my drone production, not getting supply blocked, good reactions, and getting concaves in fights.

I'm going to play a few games and upload a match where I have a mediocre game and see what you guys have to say, cause I'm kinda confused.

[Deleted]

That's where lings and mutas are just so sexy. If you can do run bys with lings and mutas to keep eco down, you can max before the terran or toss and push into him.

But there is always a wall when on 2 bases rendering the lings useless and after the first run by with mutas they end up putting up walls of missile turrets. I watch pro's and I'm like this shit is easy, just a few lings here and there bla bla, soon as I do it they seem to have a direct counter waiting. Thing is my mechanics (early-mid game) are fine, I just always get fucked up by harassment like drops or oracles. I really should learn the other races builds so I can effectively scout in order to counter.

Just committed my first ever rage quit - guy bunker rushed, held it and put him miles behind. Sent blings to his base to take down his wall and finish the game, miss clicked and the blings just stood at his ramp not attacking the wall. That was just the start of my fail, every time I sent blings to attack anything they went the most retarded way and attacked things like tanks rather than marines etc. FML, not having a good day at all on SC.