Maximizing Tank DPS

[Deleted]

Hey there,

So yesterday I went to Firelands for the first time on my Paladin Tank and noticed that my DPS is really quite low. I'm doing at aobut 6k DPS whereas the other 2 tanks in my guild are doing about 16k (DK) and 12k (Druid).

My current rotation is:
Divine Plea > Inquisition (For pull) > AS > CS > J > CS > HW > CS > SotR > Start over.
Obviously for adds and stuff I swap out CS for HotR and SotR for Inquisition.

I'm just wondering if I'm doing something wrong, or if this is a problem with paladins in general. Am I maybe focusing too much on mitigation (Currently at 89.72 CtC no cooldowns)?

My armory link is in my signature if you need to take a peek.

[Byssi]

Where you by any chance the "last in line" to tank the heavy hitters?
Could just be down to you not being able to stack the kinds of Vengeance the other 2 had, if you mostly stod on the side waiting for swaps or whatnot.

Im a DK tank, but I noticed this alot depending on who starts doing what that the first tank usually ends up with a 25%~ higher dps on the bosses we tankswap on.

[Deleted]

It was on Shannox HC, it was me and the druid tanking yesterday. I was on Shannox so it was pretty much constant, if anything the druid should have been lower than me. The other times I was tanking was Beth, on the drones so that I can understand and on Baleroc.

[Byssi]

Shannox is abit of a wierd fight though, the tank dps there shouldnt matter all to much with all the movement you need to do.
But 6k is very low anyhow. Im not a pally tank so what your "rotation" is like I couldnt answer. But are you making sure to use all your GCD's for something?
Wheter its doing threat(dmg) or surving, all GCD's should be used with care.

[Deleted]

I think i'm using my GCD's right. I just kind of use impulse for judgement of when to use them. I'm just a bit concerned about my DPS for when it comes to Alysrazor and eventually Raggy, because every bit of DPS counts, right?

[joeyc101]

Well 6k is low indeed. On fights like Baleroc hc i usually do 16k+ dps. On Alys you could always switch to dps trinkets.
I don't bother that much with Inq. If I get JoJ -> SotR. On Raggy hc every bit of dps counts indeed, at least if you're 10-man pushing for 1 meteor. I can go as high as 27k during p3 burn on Ragnaros heroic. That is with a good chunk of exp/hit though.

[Deleted]

Well divine plea gives you 3 HP for inq but when you havent built up any vengence AT ALL at the time of the pull its rather weak. IMHO its better to Exo > AS >( Judge > CS )x3 THEN use inq + AV and normal rotation. If u need a little help with vengence you can look at an addon called "Vengence" it SHOWS your vengence so you can blow your CD's to get the most out of it.

[Deleted]

It seems that you are doing something wrong (I don't know what, just that you are).

I use almost the exact same priority as you do for single target (HW is last on my list after consecrate). I manage to pull between 8-10k dps on the boss fights in the troll heroics on my newly dinged paladin.
My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fresh/advanced

[noteworthynerd]

6k does seem a little low for your gear, in mine (link in my sig) I am consistently around 10-11k on fights where I'm actively tanking (and therefore gaining vengeance). However, if you are following the rotation that you list above, I'm at a loss for what you could be doing wrong...

Edit: I figured out one thing: You are using the Glyph of Dazing Shield (major glyph). On single target fights you should be using the Glyph of Focused Shield. I actually carry around 10-15 Dusts of Disappearance just so that I can swap the Glyph in and out depending on what kind of fight it is. 30% more damage is a lot of damage, especially on Alysrazor.

[Deleted]

Well divine plea gives you 3 HP for inq but when you havent built up any vengence AT ALL at the time of the pull its rather weak. IMHO its better to Exo > AS >( Judge > CS )x3 THEN use inq + AV and normal rotation. If u need a little help with vengence you can look at an addon called "Vengence" it SHOWS your vengence so you can blow your CD's to get the most out of it.

In most cases Exo is totally not worth using. In this case, though, as you are pulling the boss back it's "okay".

Inquisition is mostly for AoE tanking, and I would go straight for SotR with the HP you get from DP, but as Jayroyma said, you should build some vengeance before going for it. /sit works quite well for quick Vengeance building.

Then again, I don't really see the issue with the DPS the tank is doing, as long as your threat is fine. Min-maxing is not necessary on Shannox hc, especially after the nerf. You have much more important things to worry about (i.e. resetting your stacks).

[adesalme2004]

Don't forget that Vengeance is going to change again in 4.3 to allow for quicker starts, so I imagine tank DPS is going to get juggled around a bit until they iron out the details.

Taking a quick glance at your Armory, I noticed you have Eye for an Eye, which isn't nearly as big a DPS boost as you'd think. I personally don't use it, I have the extra points in 3/3 RoL and a point in PoJ. I've always considered EfaE to be a PvP talent.

I'd also say your hit is a little low, but certainly not enough to cause a huge DPS loss. I'm hovering around 3.5% hit and 20 expertise right now (with Seal of Truth active), and I'm doing 11-12k DPS in Firelands.

Other than that, I don't see any real problems with your setup, I'd say get more FL gear and follow the other suggestions in this thread, and see how it goes.

[Deleted]

Don't forget that Vengeance is going to change again in 4.3 to allow for quicker starts, so I imagine tank DPS is going to get juggled around a bit until they iron out the details.

Taking a quick glance at your Armory, I noticed you have Eye for an Eye, which isn't nearly as big a DPS boost as you'd think. I personally don't use it, I have the extra points in 3/3 RoL and a point in PoJ. I've always considered EfaE to be a PvP talent.

I'd also say your hit is a little low, but certainly not enough to cause a huge DPS loss. I'm hovering around 3.5% hit and 20 expertise right now (with Seal of Truth active), and I'm doing 11-12k DPS in Firelands.

Other than that, I don't see any real problems with your setup, I'd say get more FL gear and follow the other suggestions in this thread, and see how it goes.

You're correct about EfaE, it's a massive waste of talent points.

On the other hand, what you said about hit gives the wrong idea. Hit (and expertise) should be reforged away. Vengeance is such a massive boost to threat that any offensive stats aren't needed. All hit and expertise in your gear nerf your avoidance.

[Deleted]

You're correct about EfaE, it's a massive waste of talent points.

On the other hand, what you said about hit gives the wrong idea. Hit (and expertise) should be reforged away. Vengeance is such a massive boost to threat that any offensive stats aren't needed. All hit and expertise in your gear nerf your avoidance.

you see i disagree, i class the imp judgement range as a waste of talents as if your tanking your in range to judge 90+% ofthe time.

now do i want eye which works all fight long?

or do i want a talent that means i can judge for almost no damg an extra 20 yards.

eye is damg boost, imp judge range is a hell of a lot less damg boost mayne one or two judgements a fight and instead of judging your going to throw frisbie first so even less likely to use judge.

[Mizzeeh]

On single-target you're gonna want to use a priority system that looks something like this: AS > SotR > AS(with Grand Crusader procc, so you don't waste HP) > CS > HoW > Judge > Cons > HW, use DP almost on CD(when you have 0 HP) and try to use AW when you've got 3 HP and DP off CD. You can't use a static rotation due to Grand Crusader proccs but it's still quite simple.

Basically always use SoT(SoI's crap, some people use it) and I prefer to use CS glyph since the only actual add-tanking fight in FL is Rhyolith if you're on Fragments(if you do alot of t11 raids or HCs then it's fine to use HotR glyph).

Change Consecration for HW if you're running out of mana or if you specc out of Hallowed Ground.

[Deleted]

OK so I've taken in mind a lot of the above comments and just tested my dps in a ZA. My single target dps (on the bear boss and the last boss) was 13k. Such a huuge improvement, thank you everyone!

[Requital]

OK so I've taken in mind a lot of the above comments and just tested my dps in a ZA. My single target dps (on the bear boss and the last boss) was 13k. Such a huuge improvement, thank you everyone!

When you are tanking Heroics the best thing you can do is fine Ret pieces with Mastery and License to Slay+Heroic Heart of Rage or other DPS trinket. Get that 8% Hit you will see a huge difference. I'm not saying get hit capped for raids don't take that wrong however there are a lot of tanks that are hit capped in raids but it's usually something you won;t look into until full heroic gear.

[Deleted]

Ever played other specs with thought? My main spec is ret, so "damage-oriented thinking" when tanking has never been a problem to me. But I've seen prots who can't dps for shit if they need to go dps for some fights, underperforming with their gear - even if it's only for offset.

you see i disagree, i class the imp judgement range as a waste of talents as if your tanking your in range to judge 90+% ofthe time.

now do i want eye which works all fight long?

or do i want a talent that means i can judge for almost no damg an extra 20 yards.

eye is damg boost, imp judge range is a hell of a lot less damg boost mayne one or two judgements a fight and instead of judging your going to throw frisbie first so even less likely to use judge.

So much fail in this post, and I'm not talking about the grammar - although it's well in line with the poster's ideas.