Caster dominance in PVP - is it something worth addressing?

[Jpwojcik]

I wanted to stay out of this thread since the majority seems to be angry melees who lost an arena game, but I just want everybody to read this blog again.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Interruptions

Only Affliction Warlocks and Frost mages are strong in arena presently. You still have arcane mages, fire mages, destro locks, demo locks, ele shaman, boomkin, hunters, shadow priests. If casters are so strong, where are they?

If fear is so strong, why we don't see destro and demo locks? Read the blog.

First off, hunters aren't a caster. They're more like a forgotten ranged class. If you think that affliction locks and frost mages are the only strong casters in arena at the moment, you're pretty delusional. Fire MLS is still a viable comp, though most people go with frost mls because its much easier to pull off. Arcane/Destro/Demo/Boomkin are all bad specs because they require too much casting. None of them have reliable instants outside of Boomkins, which puts them at a disadvantage against other casters. Ele shamans are very strong in 3s/5s/RBGs, as they can easily line up good burst and have a reliable knockback. Shadow Priests have the strongest comp at the moment, Shadowplay.

The biggest reason destro/demo locks aren't strong is that they have no dispel protection. Affliction locks can fear anyone and be sure its most likely not going to be dispelled off. The other big difference is that affliction has instant fear, the other two specs don't have it. Destro's damage is casted mostly and pretty bad, and demo relies too much on spells with long cast times.

EDIT: Also, the only teams that I see being competitive at the tournament are the american/eu teams. On the american/eu teams, there is only one melee (dk), and warlock/shaman on each team.

[Dayn9]

Btw boomkin is godlike in rated bgs / 5s

[Vapori]

Now you melee will know how it felt being a caster in Vanilla - Wotlk .

I wounder how many posts it'll take before I get flamed by someone saying "X" caster was OP during "Y" season. My bet is on 5.

RMP much? ha.

[Dayn9]

Well, casters heavily dominated the second part of Wrath of the Lich King (ele shaman s7-8 / affliction and destruction warlock s6-7-8 (not counting s5 since affliction warlock teams were only good at the very end of the season) / frost mages s6-7-8 / shadowpriest s7-8 / boomkin season 8..), and affliction warlock + frost mages always were good classes.

It always was possible for warlocks and mages to get rank 1 in 2s/3s, those classes never really suffered from anything. Elemental shamans were only good in 5s until season 7, and shadow priests were in a rather bad spot during season 3,4,5,6.

It's true melees were dominating the arena ladder during season 3 and 4 which may be the period everyone remembers when he talks about TBC, but casters weren't as bad as people say they were.

Edit : I could go on and list every comp that was good / op / top tier during each season and that somewhat made x or y spec "viable", "good", or even "strong", but I think you got my point.

[Korgoth]

I wanted to stay out of this thread since the majority seems to be angry melees who lost an arena game, but I just want everybody to read this blog again.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Interruptions

Only Affliction Warlocks and Frost mages are strong in arena presently. You still have arcane mages, fire mages, destro locks, demo locks, ele shaman, boomkin, hunters, shadow priests. If casters are so strong, where are they?

If fear is so strong, why we don't see destro and demo locks? Read the blog.

I always find these types of posts silly. Like melee classes dont have shit specs too. For your arcane mage and Fire mage ill give you combat rogues and ass rogues, for your destro ill give you fury, for your demo ill give you prot, for your ele ill give you enh, for your boomkin ill give you blood, for your Hunters ill give you hunters they arent casters which is probably why they always seems so screwed, and Shadow Priests are wicked strong, not quite mage level but easily rivaling any melee class right now. And imo a shadow priest is going to win Blizzcon!

[Hungrydingo]

MLS isn't OP because of 1 specific class on the team, imo it's mainly because you're pairing 1 class who can use a lot of things like Nova and Deep Freeze that need to be dispelled with another that can end the match pretty quickly if their stuff gets dispelled. Trying to dispel a Nova, Deep Freeze, or Fear risks dispelling UA and opens the healer up big time to being hard swapped to. Suddenly you're at 60k and silence, most of the time with Dots running on you already factor in that all 3 classes have an interrupt and the team is so stacked it's unreal.

---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 07:48 PM ----------

Well, casters heavily dominated the second part of Wrath of the Lich King (ele shaman s7-8 / affliction and destruction warlock s6-7-8 (not counting s5 since affliction warlock teams were only good at the very end of the season) / frost mages s6-7-8 / shadowpriest s7-8 / boomkin season 8..), and affliction warlock + frost mages always were good classes.

It always was possible for warlocks and mages to get rank 1 in 2s/3s, those classes never really suffered from anything. Elemental shamans were only good in 5s until season 7, and shadow priests were in a rather bad spot during season 3,4,5,6.

It's true melees were dominating the arena ladder during season 3 and 4 which may be the period everyone remembers when he talks about TBC, but casters weren't as bad as people say they were.

Edit : I could go on and list every comp that was good / op / top tier during each season and that somewhat made x or y spec "viable", "good", or even "strong", but I think you got my point.

Everyone always says Melee dominated TBC arena, but it was just Warriors and Rogues, granted there melee of every spec that got gladiator in 2v2 in TBC including an enhance shaman, but it's not like ferals, rets, and enhance were dominate. In 2v2 you could pair almost anything up with a Resto Druid, even some hunters got to 2400, and still win. In 3v3 there really weren't any dominate melee cleaves (I don't even think melee cleave or spell cleave even existed back then) it was either WLD or RMP.

[Dayn9]

Well WRD was pretty strong in season 3/4, but that's about it.

There also were some enha/warr/hpally (which I ran to 2050 in season3), but top tier comps were WLD, RLD, RMP, and WRD. There also were a few dual healer hunter/lock (disc/druid/x) that were lame as fuck :P

[Korgoth]

Well WRD was pretty strong in season 3/4, but that's about it.

There also were some enha/warr/hpally (which I ran to 2050 in season3), but top tier comps were WLD, RLD, RMP, and WRD. There also were a few dual healer hunter/lock (disc/druid/x) that were lame as fuck :P

Yeah and other cleaves existed too, they just were not that dominant. I ran a good deal of double Stormherald Warrior Ret Shaman back in S3. Worked well enough to get up past 2200, but not for Glad.

[Deleted]

Well WRD was pretty strong in season 3/4, but that's about it.

There also were some enha/warr/hpally (which I ran to 2050 in season3), but top tier comps were WLD, RLD, RMP, and WRD. There also were a few dual healer hunter/lock (disc/druid/x) that were lame as fuck :P

Ret/warrior/druid was quite strong, too, far as melee-based comps went. Got to about 2400 as that (playing ret) in a couple seasons, and 2200~ as enha/ret/druid, granted neither was exactly easy to pull off, they were still very competitive.

hunter/lock/paladin/disc/dudu was really, really funny in 5's.

[Korgoth]

Ret/warrior/druid was quite strong, too, far as melee-based comps went. Got to about 2400 as that (playing ret) in a couple seasons, and 2200~ as enha/ret/druid, granted neither was exactly easy to pull off, they were still very competitive.

hunter/lock/paladin/disc/dudu was really, really funny in 5's.

hunter/shadow/enh, I remember running that to 2200 on my shaman back in S4 so I could get a mainhand weapon upgrade for raiding since Blizzard decided that they didn't need to put one in between the 2nd boss of BT and the last boss of Sunwell.

Oh and it was easier to find an arena team as enh back in S4 then it is to find an RBG team as Arms in S10.

[Deleted]

replying to the first post : casters shouldn't be dominating strickly alone anymore with the 25% healing debuff that warriors and rogues are gonna get in 4.3. They are gonna be a considerable note worthy opponent especially rogues

I think I am gonna tryout some WLS, more action then RLS if you ask me

[Deleted]

replying to the first post : casters shouldn't be dominating strickly alone anymore with the 25% healing debuff that warriors and rogues are gonna get in 4.3. They are gonna be a considerable note worthy opponent especially rogues

I think I am gonna tryout some WLS, more action then RLS if you ask me

Rogues are already doing decently compared to hunters, warriors, DKs.

25% wound poison will shift them into problematic territory, given that they already synergise better with casters and add smoke bomb, better CC and much higher damage than warriors.

[Deleted]

replying to the first post : casters shouldn't be dominating strickly alone anymore with the 25% healing debuff that warriors and rogues are gonna get in 4.3. They are gonna be a considerable note worthy opponent especially rogues

I think I am gonna tryout some WLS, more action then RLS if you ask me

Oh please do rogues also get 25% MS? That will make my moonkin really really really pissed off. I hope moonkins get anti rogue buffs next patch. Otherwise... grrr.. its not fun that you die if you just press Starfall instead of travel form vs rogues in equal gear.

Oh wait, atleast we're good with a healer dominating everything.

[Deleted]

2 combs with a hunter...yay..

[kaorou]

Only thing I can think of is that I haven't seen many Enh/Lock and Feral/Lock comps.

[Dayn9]

Whats soo damn good about boomkins in those? I always see LFM rated need boomkin. thinking about switching to that from resto.

Well I don't know much about moonkin but they basically spam their instant dots on everyone, their damage is sort of low at the beginning but they quickly become very hard to outheal, especially when a warlock is also dotting every possible target.

I don't even want to imagine how strong it would be with a dual wield frost dk cleaving everyone and/or a shadowpriest multi doting and bursting one target down..

[sii]

Why I have the impression that people in this thread never played a caster? Sure, casters have strong comps in 3v3, but what about 2v2, Rbg's, duels, etc? Have you ever tried to cast something when a melee is on you? Fake casting, interrupts, stuns, it's not as easy as people think. Try playing an elemental shaman, Boomkin or a Warlock without a healer and have fun being destroyed. The only caster who is really strong against melees is a frost mage.

Also, why people always need to link the top 100 comps to justify everything about PvP balance? Are you in the top 100? Those are the best players in the world, what about everybody else?

2400 isn't even close to the top 100..... Also, 1v1 and 2v2 aren't exactly balanced in the slightest

On topic, imo this is somewhat due to the healing debuff changes, nerfing them to the ground pushed melee far behind casters.