Current state of elemental

[mustangzs2]

his magmaw tacts(if they are kited) arent inferior neither is the maloriak on normal. but yeah i guess when you are trying to prove ur point calling something shitty makes it easier

as to the OP

i've stay at about the same dps spot overall in our 25m raids around 4-7th so cant complain but the ppl who were above me be4 took an even bigger lead if that makes any sense. atm anyway havent raided yet since nerfs

Yea we kite the adds on magmaw making it hard to aoe.

I also stayed about the same dps #'s but not rankings...It feels as if every other class got some sort of buff and are passing me on the charts now.


Also--to the people that think i'm doing my rotation incorrectly/gearing incorrectly and that i'm doing so little dps, please stop flexing your epeen, because I would rank in the top 200(for shamans) if we had killed chimaeron (25 heroic) doing my ~18k dps. Don't try to tell me that you're doing chimaeron 25 heroic and pulling 22k+.

[Endus]

his magmaw tacts(if they are kited) arent inferior neither is the maloriak on normal. but yeah i guess when you are trying to prove ur point calling something shitty makes it easier

I was referring specifically to the Maloriak tactic, burning the adds down prior to the green phase, so you can focus the boss in the green phase. This mathematically means it will take longer to kill the boss. AoE is more efficient than single targets or cleaves; you do more damage per second across all targets than you could focusing one down. Plus, in the green phase, you're doubling that AoE damage.

You could make an argument for it if you can't manage to kite the adds until the green phase, but it absolutely is slowing down your kill.

It's going to take you more than twice as long to kill the adds this way, and any time killing adds is time not spent killing the boss. If you tank Maloriak in the AoE, you get the best of both worlds.


Yes, I reserve the right to point out that certain things aren't optimal. That's more or less the point of theorycrafting. But then, you don't actually have a point here, except to try and imply that I'm wrong because I'm being critical.

Which is absolutely asinine. By all means, provide an argument to refute mine.

But don't call me out for "calling something shitty" by doing nothing more than calling my own argument shitty. That's hypocrisy.

[Kieke]

But don't call me out for "calling something shitty" by doing nothing more than calling my own argument shitty. That's hypocrisy.

so now its only maloriak ok. prior to being geared we had problems with tank deaths(first week or 2) while aoe tanking and we solved it by killing of adds(putting 3-4 ranged on it) 1 at a time while we spawned 6-7 between each green phase and aoeing/cleaving what was left during. Now becoz AoE is optimal doesnt always mean it can always be done. But now that its piss easy we just dont intrupt and let everything spawn and aoe becoz it is "optimal". and neither did i call ur argument shitty im just making an observation.

now that its piss easy we just dont intrupt and left everything spawn and aoe becoz it is "optimal"

[Ares42]

because I would rank in the top 200(for shamans) if we had killed chimaeron (25 heroic) doing my ~18k dps. Don't try to tell me that you're doing chimaeron 25 heroic and pulling 22k+.

Chim might the absolute worst fight to compare DPS on though. I've had swings of up to 5k dps difference on different tries on him. Ever gotten chain poison on shock CD ? gg dps.

[mustangzs2]

Chim might the absolute worst fight to compare DPS on though. I've had swings of up to 5k dps difference on different tries on him. Ever gotten chain poison on shock CD ? gg dps.

I have never had that much of a difference between dps, but the point is--i'm doing shit right. My gear/enchants/spec is perfectly fine, as is my rotation.

I simply wanted to know if anyone else was sad with the current state of ele dps.

[Deleted]

I still don't get why anyone would change EQ to 15% more range of totems.
EQ makes most fights a lot easier, it knocks multiple adds down often reducing their dps on tanks. Even before the last patch which made EQ the ultimate AoEr tool it was good on fights such as Magmaw but I guess if you tend to kite the adds around it will be hard to perform a good EQ.

Also on fights such as Halfus Wyrm there could be a good idea to tank whelps and Halfus together so that you can use your glyphed CL targeting Halfus and due to him taking a lot more dmg now and then if u got stun drake the initial target of the CL decides the damage of the next coming hits and that means it could be an idea leaving out EQ and just using CL and repeatedly spamming fulmination on Halfus.

My point tho is that EQ should not be left out, its a great tool and it makes us a good choice for raidsetup.
The bossfights tends to change a lot in this expansion and its not always meant for us to dps, after reading this post I could take some examples such as Chimaeron where we should toss some healing rains to ease up the healing, a class such as mage or warlock can't do that and therefor we're favored such as the hybrid we are and that is of course nice.

I am pleased with the changes in latest patch but of course we are not top dps, I didn't epect them to buff us that much in one single patch.


edit, and for god sake, anyone glyphing away knockback to get some more mana should have their shaman replaced with a lvl 1 rogue, this is one of the best tools ever given to us and will save the raid sometimes twice a boss encounter. Mana is no problems so the extra mana is stupid and the knockback is good, it can remove dmg taken on tanks by 100% for several seconds and also help on bosses such as Cho'gall where the adds else would start stacking up debuffmeter.
And I know the adds should never reach the ones they are targeting but sometimes AoE is not performed perfect due to MC or whatever but thats just how the fights are nowdays, they tend to change more and thats why we are such a good class.

[Ares42]

Also on fights such as Halfus Wyrm there could be a good idea to tank whelps and Halfus together so that you can use your glyphed CL targeting Halfus and due to him taking a lot more dmg now and then if u got stun drake the initial target of the CL decides the damage of the next coming hits and that means it could be an idea leaving out EQ and just using CL and repeatedly spamming fulmination on Halfus.

Nerfed last patch, so not really relevant anymore.

[Deleted]

Ah sorry, I guess I missed that out.
But that would proof the EQ even better much to my liking, because it is a powerful tool and as people already stated it is not capped to 5 targets, its just hard to count on since the extra parameter with rolling thunder procs is such a huge dps increase.

[Endus]

edit, and for god sake, anyone glyphing away knockback to get some more mana should have their shaman replaced with a lvl 1 rogue, this is one of the best tools ever given to us and will save the raid sometimes twice a boss encounter. Mana is no problems so the extra mana is stupid and the knockback is good, it can remove dmg taken on tanks by 100% for several seconds and also help on bosses such as Cho'gall where the adds else would start stacking up debuffmeter.
And I know the adds should never reach the ones they are targeting but sometimes AoE is not performed perfect due to MC or whatever but thats just how the fights are nowdays, they tend to change more and thats why we are such a good class.

The problem with Thunderstorm's knockback is that if they're perfectly grouped up, you knock them back in one direction, but you're knocking them out of the AoE. If they're NOT perfectly grouped up, due to its proximity mechanic, you're knocking them back in multiple different directions, spreading them even further apart, making AoE even more difficult. A Boomkin's Typhoon is actually more useful for this.

Not to mention, one of the three fights you might actually want to use it, Magmaw, it's a bad, bad idea to get close enough to the adds to have it work.

Thunderstorm knockback causes at least as many problems in a raiding environment as it solves.

[Deleted]

I guess in the end it's all up to whos behind the keyboard, if you can't estimate how close you could get to a certain mob without getting hit of it it could just mean you a) is one of the shamans who should have their shaman turned into a lvl 1 rogue or b) the one who never tried it.

As for magmaw its not hard at all since the mobs got small circle and thunderstorm got a large radius, the fact that the adds spawn exactly on each other and almost exactly the same moment make them move straight on each other meaning they will fly almost to the same spot after successfull knockback, but it doesn't matter really because you would only want to use it on those few adds that just didn't want to die. And it gives you just enough time to throw a fast CL and end the last one with fulmination.


But still, thats just for 1 boss, and yeah I know there is ppl that have their shamans run straight into a pack of mobs, probably taking them two or one seconds to get there from where they stood earlier just to use their knockback and moving the mobs out of the AoE that other players do but there is no really medicine for ppl that don't realize they just lost a high amount of damage just from making their character move and spread mobs making further AoE impossible but what I mean is that Thunderstorm in the hands of a shaman whom know how to play their class never turns into a failure, saying Thunderstorm knockback would cause as much dmg as help to the raid makes me wonder whos behind that keyboard...really :P


edit, actually I just remembered some fun fact about Thunderstorm is that you can move the Omnotron defense system NPCs, all four of them with this very AoE, bosses should be immune to this?

[mustangzs2]

I guess in the end it's all up to whos behind the keyboard, if you can't estimate how close you could get to a certain mob without getting hit of it it could just mean you a) is one of the shamans who should have their shaman turned into a lvl 1 rogue or b) the one who never tried it.

As for magmaw its not hard at all since the mobs got small circle and thunderstorm got a large radius, the fact that the adds spawn exactly on each other and almost exactly the same moment make them move straight on each other meaning they will fly almost to the same spot after successfull knockback, but it doesn't matter really because you would only want to use it on those few adds that just didn't want to die. And it gives you just enough time to throw a fast CL and end the last one with fulmination.


But still, thats just for 1 boss, and yeah I know there is ppl that have their shamans run straight into a pack of mobs, probably taking them two or one seconds to get there from where they stood earlier just to use their knockback and moving the mobs out of the AoE that other players do but there is no really medicine for ppl that don't realize they just lost a high amount of damage just from making their character move and spread mobs making further AoE impossible but what I mean is that Thunderstorm in the hands of a shaman whom know how to play their class never turns into a failure, saying Thunderstorm knockback would cause as much dmg as help to the raid makes me wonder whos behind that keyboard...really :P


edit, actually I just remembered some fun fact about Thunderstorm is that you can move the Omnotron defense system NPCs, all four of them with this very AoE, bosses should be immune to this?

You over simplify this CIRCULAR knockback. If the adds aren't PERFECTLY STACKED, they will be knocked back according to their positioning around the CIRCLE, which means they will not all go back to the same spot, or even close enough to AoE them all. You can't say someone is a bad shaman because thunderstorm is an unreliable knockback, because for example, the adds on magmaw aren't all able to be hit by one thunderstorm, unless you are in the middle of them (where some will be knocked the wrong direction).

If you can knock back all the adds on magmaw perfectly to where you can aoe all of them again, i'd love to see a video, otherwise don't insult others for it. It's a circular aoe knockback that WILL NOT knock them to the same spot.

[Qwell]

The problem with Thunderstorm's knockback is that if they're perfectly grouped up, you knock them back in one direction, but you're knocking them out of the AoE. If they're NOT perfectly grouped up, due to its proximity mechanic, you're knocking them back in multiple different directions, spreading them even further apart, making AoE even more difficult. A Boomkin's Typhoon is actually more useful for this.

Not to mention, one of the three fights you might actually want to use it, Magmaw, it's a bad, bad idea to get close enough to the adds to have it work.

Thunderstorm knockback causes at least as many problems in a raiding environment as it solves.

True, it can cause more problems than it solves, but if you (and specifically me) roll with a guild raid or a tight-knit player base, that foible can be cast aside. My guild has no real problems with adds on magmaw and we knock-back every chance we can. I usually let slow totem pulse , then push-back, then ChL and such--because, in my experience since day 1, single targeting the worms yielded faster kills, thus less pressure for heals. I understand math might refute such claims, but in practice I feel ChL is more dangerous.
EQ is an excellent spell--the shaman community needs to understand this. Speccing for dmg reduction is a waste of points in PvE in the end--most dmg is avoidable, thus the game relies more on your own doings to not die. If you learn to move out of poo, you won't stink.
The Moderator Endus seems to have a legit view on shamans, and one I agree with. Because it's not HIM that's right or wrong--it's simply the way to play the class, and he gets that.

[achertite]

I guess in the end it's all up to whos behind the keyboard, if you can't estimate how close you could get to a certain mob without getting hit of it it could just mean you a) is one of the shamans who should have their shaman turned into a lvl 1 rogue or b) the one who never tried it.

As for magmaw its not hard at all since the mobs got small circle and thunderstorm got a large radius, the fact that the adds spawn exactly on each other and almost exactly the same moment make them move straight on each other meaning they will fly almost to the same spot after successfull knockback, but it doesn't matter really because you would only want to use it on those few adds that just didn't want to die. And it gives you just enough time to throw a fast CL and end the last one with fulmination.


But still, thats just for 1 boss, and yeah I know there is ppl that have their shamans run straight into a pack of mobs, probably taking them two or one seconds to get there from where they stood earlier just to use their knockback and moving the mobs out of the AoE that other players do but there is no really medicine for ppl that don't realize they just lost a high amount of damage just from making their character move and spread mobs making further AoE impossible but what I mean is that Thunderstorm in the hands of a shaman whom know how to play their class never turns into a failure, saying Thunderstorm knockback would cause as much dmg as help to the raid makes me wonder whos behind that keyboard...really :P


edit, actually I just remembered some fun fact about Thunderstorm is that you can move the Omnotron defense system NPCs, all four of them with this very AoE, bosses should be immune to this?

Thunderstorm is huge damage when used properly and when unglyphed is unusable. Do you really have mana issues and is 2% more really going to help? Sure, it can be good in certain situations, but overall no.

[Deleted]

Thunderstorm is huge damage when used properly and when unglyphed is unusable. Do you really have mana issues and is 2% more really going to help? Sure, it can be good in certain situations, but overall no.

At some fight I use Thunder very often to get mana back, I have mana problems when I help healers to top raid (maybe it wrong), nef p2 Chimaeron etc. But if only on dps duty you can't have problems with mana as ele.

Hex