Is Efflorescence worth the points?

[Ithildae]

Day.

I'm thinking of throwing Efflorescence out of my spec, but I'm afraid I might lose too much in terms of throughput.
When I check more or less random logs at world of logs, Efflorescence usually heals for about 3-5% of total healing done. Efflorescence costs 3-6 points depending how much you like Living Seed. This is of course, to get my hands on a Moonglow spec with Furor, I find myself going OOM in long fights or I find myself somewhat more passive that what I could be in combat because I can't throw off some extra heals due to mana conservation.

So really what I'm looking for is people who have attempted both specs and found the mana savings being worth more than Efflorescence, mayby Efflorescence just feels more important than what it really is.

[Jodah]

Not really an answer to your question but a possible alternative. Do you have a moonkin or another resto in your raids? If so you can "innervate swap" and use the glyph of innervate. By doing so you effectively each get 30% instead of the normal 20%

[Deleted]

Personally I find both living seed and effloressence a nice extra bonus to your heals. It's not super epic, but not bad either.
If you find yourself going OOM quite often in long fights, I'd suggest you to either get better gear, your healing style is not optimal, or the other people are just screwing up and they deserve to die.
Getting mana reduction is great, but in my opinion it's not worth all the points.

But you can always try and see what's the best until you get better gear. It's just that I think you shouldn't be needing it with the right gear and healing rotation.

[Ithildae]

Not really an answer to your question but a possible alternative. Do you have a moonkin or another resto in your raids? If so you can "innervate swap" and use the glyph of innervate. By doing so you effectively each get 30% instead of the normal 20%

I'm aware of the innervate swap, but no, I often happen to be the only casterdruid in the raid.

Personally I find both living seed and effloressence a nice extra bonus to your heals. It's not super epic, but not bad either.
If you find yourself going OOM quite often in long fights, I'd suggest you to either get better gear, your healing style is not optimal, or the other people are just screwing up and they deserve to die.
Getting mana reduction is great, but in my opinion it's not worth all the points.

But you can always try and see what's the best until you get better gear. It's just that I think you shouldn't be needing it with the right gear and healing rotation.

Well I don't go OOM quite often, I never go OOM if that's one way to look at it, I just simply adjust my output with my regen. But I'd like some higher output, with more regen I would be less passive, but lose some throughput. If it's worth remains a mystery.

[Kokiron]

IMO Druid regen is good enough (especially if you keep lifebloom rolling on a tank) that having more healing is better than having more mana.

[Deleted]

As far as "hardcore raiding" I can't really give any feedback. But I have tried both a spec with effloresence and one without in BoT and BH. And personaly I didn't really notice a big difference. I have no mana problems, and are usualy at the top in the healing charts. So IDK. It might just be a personal prefferance thing. Atm I'm playing without it (Mostly becuse I focus on PvP). But as I stated before, I couldn't really notice any big difference.

[Slonah]

If it hits 3 or more targets it is worth it, if not it isn't. I only have one resto spec, and in fights where it is effective I really want it (Magmaw, Chimeron, Twin Dragons, etc). I don't really know where I would put those points though if I took them out of Efflor and Living Seed. To get to the 4th tier without Living Seed it is 2 points in Blessing of the Grove, Perseverance, Nature's Swiftness, or Fury of Stormrage, all of which are just meh talents. Once you decide on one of those talents you get through the 4th tier, into the 5th where you take Wild Growth and Nature's Cure. You now need 3 points to get to the 6th tier you need to spend 3 more points, options are whatever you didn't take before from Blessing of the Grove, Perseverance, Nature's Swiftness, or Fury of Stormrage, or filling out the last two points in Nature's Bounty (meh) or Nature's Ward (even bigger meh). Once you do that, after taking Blessing of the Earth Mother and Swift Rejuv to get ToL you need one more point in any of those meh talents that are not currently filled. It's basically a wash by now as you have taken crappy talents to avoid 6 points in talents which do increase your healing.

[HarleyM]

Keep in mind that you need at least 31 points in Resto. It is possible to get 3 moonglow and 2 furor without sacrificing efflorescence. Make sure to play with a talent calculator. You will probably find that there is no way to more effectively use those 6 points elsewhere. Assuming you don't tank heal it isn't difficult to find a better use for the living seed points, but the problem is you need to remove efflorescence first. Look at your spec and see if there are other points that contribute less than 1.5% each to your total healing -- there probably are.

[Cilraaz]

I did some quick napkin math based on our log from Tuesday night's raid. In that raid, Efflorescence was 5% of my healing and Living Seed was 0.5%. I removed all LB blooms. I'm at work, so I don't really have time to try to figure out how WoL has Regrowth mashed together, so I discounted its gains completely. It was only 1.3% of my total healing anyway (direct heals included), so any improvements to it would be minor anyway. I also assumed the bonuses from BotG and Genesis to be multiplicative. If they're additive, then the numbers will be slightly lower. In any case, here's what I came up with:

If I figure on 2 points in Genesis (8.16% increase to RJ, 4% increase to the others), I get:

Original Total: 41,739,445 healing.
Rejuv: 13,383,142 healing, increased by 8.16% is 14,475,206 healing.
Rejuv Direct: 1,926,524 healing, increased by 4% is 2,003,585 healing.
WG: 14,163,820 healing, increased by 4% is 14,730,373 healing.
LB ticks: 3,382,633 healing, increased by 4% is 3,517,938 healing.
Efflorescence: 2,097,865 healing lost.
Living Seed: 224,844 healing lost.
New Total: 41,287,719 healing, a 1.08% reduction.

If I figure on 3 pionts in Genesis (10.24% increase to RJ and 6% to the others), I get:

Original Total: 41,739,445 healing.
Rejuv: 13,383,142 healing, increased by 10.24% is 14,753,576 healing.
Rejuv Direct: 1,926524 healing, increased by 4% is 2,003,585 healing.
WG: 14,163,820 healing, increased by 6% is 15,013,649 healing.
LB ticks: 3,382,633 healing, increased by 6% is 3,585,591 healing.
Efflorescence: 2,097,865 healing lost.
Living Seed: 224,844 healing lost.
New Total: 41,917,018 healing, a 0.425% increase.

Either way, while toying with the talent builder, I ended up taking points in resto that I really didn't want/need. I lost Furor and, if I wanted any increase in throughput, lost a point of Moonglow also. I'm not in the world's best gear (avg ilvl 357, 10/12 in Normals), but unless something would drastically change in the high end (or my math is horrendously wrong, which could be), I don't see dropping LS/Eff/Furor worth picking up BotG and Genesis. Feel free to point out any math or logic flaws, though. I'd appreciate it, in fact, as I've been debating a potential spec change myself.

[hothoof]

Just adding my $0.02 here. Most decent resto druids have asked this of themselves at one point or another, it's certainly not an amazing talent but again we must spend 31 points in resto. The other 10 are typically much better off out of resto and getting moonglow/genisis/furor (pick 2).

It doesn't matter how many targets it hits really, you're going to get the same amount of healing from it anyway, it'll just be less per person the more people that stand in it. One way to think of it is do you want whomever you SM'd to get a ~5k heal via an Eff "hot" for free? The answer is yes in just about every case. You'll be hard pressed to juggle around the 31 points in resto to come up with a solution that will result in both more hps/hpm.

[Myrrar]

In the end, it fully depends on if you plan on having 2 specs or not.

If you double resto with 2 specs or plan to respec between fights, it's fine to use one of those on a non-LS/efflor spec. It can be used on fights where you are just too spread out for it to matter.

But for beginning fights where there is a lot of stacking up, even in 10s it's irreplaceable. A lot of people see low numbers from efflor because they use it wrong.

Like on Magmaw, you get the initial aoe then the big one. You pre-hot RJ, hit WG the 1st tick so it has at least some mastery, and efflor after so everyone who has a hot has mastery efflor.

In HMs efflor(should) makes up average 5-6% healing. In 25s, average 7-8%. That's a lot of healing that costs little to no mana that is 1 gcd on multiple targets. Well worth the points.

As said, the only time you should not take efflor is if you are willing to respec or use a different spec for the few fights you just wont get any use out of it. If you don't have 2 or don't plan to respec, you're gimping yourself bu doing that since in the end, you HAVE to have 31 points in the resto tree and they wont make up 5-8% healing.

[Naturalistlol]

IMO, it's pretty much required for 25m raids, in 10s it's very situational though, I only pick it up for H Chimaeron, and will likely be taking it for H omnotron this week as well. Overall I hate being forced to take the 3 points in LS for it, because I'd definitely have efflo all the time if not for that.

[Dozar]

I've raided quite a bit and gotten gear up in cata on my resto, and at first i had the same mana problems using efflor. i ended up going 3/3 furor 1/3 efflor. meaning more points to the balance regen. Now that i have better gear (int, spirit) i use 1/3 furor 3/3 moonglow 3/3 efflor.
Blue heroic/pvp gear : go mana regen spec less efflor
Half epic: transition to lower furor, 2/3 efflor and balance mana regen
mostly epic- full epics : moonglow 3/3 efflor 3/3
completely worth it end game raiding

[gash46]

Depends on your raid comp and assignment I'd say. I'm on heroic omnitron 25, last night we were running with one other resto druid, 3 holy priests and a shaman, all were using their various zone aoe heals. At the end of the night my efflorescence which, I used as much as could, counted for about 8%. On some fights it can work wonders, if you can make the most of that kind of healing (nefarian is another good example), it'll be worth a lot more HpM than rejuv for instance. If it's a fight with a lot of spread out damage and you can't use efflo much, might as well go for mana efficiency on your hots.