Lockout confusion...

[Shyguyy]

... Morchok is the first boss.

Why would anyone be saved?

[Kiteh]

If you don't kill anything, no 'lockout' has been generated, thus, free raid schedules for all.

[Kiteh]

However confusing the text you linked is, we have given you the correct answer

The text, I think, is outdated and is also assuming you killed 1 guy on normal, then go join a group doing a further boss on HC mode, and thus, you would have been saved to the HC raid, regardless (as I said, outdated)

If you check your calender you will see what your saved lockout's are (if locked, will be listed on reset day - the following; Tues for US, Weds for EU) If nothing listed, you are not locked.

[bals]

If the raid difficulty is set to Heroic, then characters will be locked to the raid instance and size 'immediately' after zoning in (you are presented with a warning allowing you to leave if you do not wish to accept the lockout). The lockout will then read "Heroic (10 player)" or "Heroic (25 player)" respectively, and you will be unable to join a raid of a different size. However, you may still switch between normal mode and heroic mode for your lockout; however, no matter which mode you are currently on, players will be locked instantaneously if the 'lockout' is flagged as Heroic.

this part is the same as what the above people said.
when you have not killed a boss yet there is no lockout
when you kill a boss a lockout is created and follows the above rules, notice the underlined part.

[Dracodraco]

Actually:

Raid #1 enters instance #1H.
They switch the instance on to heroic to attempt Morchok, and generates the permanent lockout #1H.
This is now the ONLY instance this reset they can kill heroic bosses in. If the raid splits up, then the first person to reform the raid and kill Morchok on Heroic will have defeated him, and NONE of the other 9 can fight him on heroic.

The remaining 9 persons CAN however do instances #1N through #9N, as normal does not care about your heroic lock - only bosses which you have killed.

And to the people who claim that you won't get saved untill you kill something - I'm pretty sure you're wrong. We had this happen almost every tier - in T10 we had to abandon ruby sanctum for a week because a member thought he was clever and invited half the raid to get trash done quicker while our officer invited the other half and they entered a "new" instance, and we couldn't fill a raid. During T11 on Omnotron progress, five of our members ended up locked out due to switching around and them entering prior to others. Didn't have it happen in T12 apart from getting saved to 6/7 heroic ID to get a quick raggy mount, then realising one of the other 9 people from the previous raid had already done it and snagged the aviable ragnaros ID).

[Deleted]

Actually:

Raid #1 enters instance #1H.
They switch the instance on to heroic to attempt Morchok, and generates the permanent lockout #1H.

You know what kind of a lockout is a lockout with all bosses alive?

It's not a lockout at all. You can't generate a lockout in an instance where nothing has been cleared. Or have you seen a "you will be saved to 0/8 Dragon Soul" or similar when you have entered a raid instance?

And to the people who claim that you won't get saved untill you kill something - I'm pretty sure you're wrong. We had this happen almost every tier - in T10 we had to abandon ruby sanctum for a week because a member thought he was clever and invited half the raid to get trash done quicker while our officer invited the other half and they entered a "new" instance, and we couldn't fill a raid. During T11 on Omnotron progress, five of our members ended up locked out due to switching around and them entering prior to others. Didn't have it happen in T12 apart from getting saved to 6/7 heroic ID to get a quick raggy mount, then realising one of the other 9 people from the previous raid had already done it and snagged the aviable ragnaros ID).

Well the minibosses at RS probably give you a save too, so you got a save when you killed them, at Omnotron you probably got the save because Magmaw was down. At rag obviously if you got saved to 6/7 then obviously the 6 bosses were killed by someone at some point, and thus you got saved when you entered the instance. None of your examples really rule out the bolded part, as in all of them something had been killed.

Now in the OP:s scenario, no bosses are down, there is no save for trying to kill the first boss and everyone is free to switch raids as they please.

[maky13]

Demez above me explained it right. There is no lockout if no bosses are killed.

[Dracodraco]

You know what kind of a lockout is a lockout with all bosses alive?

It's not a lockout at all. You can't generate a lockout in an instance where nothing has been cleared. Or have you seen a "you will be saved to 0/8 Dragon Soul" or similar when you have entered a raid instance?


Well the minibosses at RS probably give you a save too, so you got a save when you killed them, at Omnotron you probably got the save because Magmaw was down. At rag obviously if you got saved to 6/7 then obviously the 6 bosses were killed by someone at some point, and thus you got saved when you entered the instance. None of your examples really rule out the bolded part, as in all of them something had been killed.

Now in the OP:s scenario, no bosses are down, there is no save for trying to kill the first boss and everyone is free to switch raids as they please.

Then explain to me why you get asked "if you want to accept" a save when you enter a heroic instance that has yet to kill Morchok.

[maky13]

Then explain to me why you get asked "if you want to accept" a save when you enter a heroic instance that has yet to kill Morchok.

I have never seen or heard of that happening. If this was common, we`d get it every week.
Maybe it was one of those scenarios where Kohcrom was killed and group wiped before finishing Morchok?

[Dracodraco]

I have never seen or heard of that happening. If this was common, we`d get it every week.
Maybe it was one of those scenarios where Kohcrom was killed and group wiped before finishing Morchok?

Odd, I seem to get it every week I zone into an instance that is already set to heroic (yes I'm lazy, I don't fly there).

[Deleted]

The amazing Blizzard work for heroic lockouts that screwed casual 25s.
You just scratched the tip of the iceberg.
If you didnt kill a boss but you did heroic attempts on heroic morchok.

1) Anybody from your group can clear the place but only IN NORMAL
2) Your group can gather up, get someone with fresh id(no kill no heroic try) and continue with normals and heroics, but only in the size you first attempted morchok heroic.

[maky13]

The amazing Blizzard work for heroic lockouts that screwed casual 25s.
You just scratched the tip of the iceberg.
If you didnt kill a boss but you did heroic attempts on heroic morchok.

1) Anybody from your group can clear the place but only IN NORMAL
2) Your group can gather up, get someone with fresh id(no kill no heroic try) and continue with normals and heroics, but only in the size you first attempted morchok heroic.

I`m fairly sure it doesn`t apply for Morchok. Or well, it shouldn`t apply for the first boss in an instance.

Now that more people say it, I`m beginning to wonder if there is some trash mob which triggers a lockout (before Morchok), but I don`t remember noticing any. I`ll pay attention to that tonight.

[Deleted]

It does :S
We had some very educative lost progress weeks
1) with halfus being tried on 25 heroic only to discover that were locked out in 10.
And then 2) With 2 different 10 mans trying him on heroic and the second day merging into one 10 to discover that we couldnt swap to heroic.
That happened with Chimaeron 25 and 10 man combo as well
So it got us screwed in 2 different raids (one of them at the first boss) for a nice total of 3 weeks lost.

[Mudkiper]

Actually:

Raid #1 enters instance #1H.
They switch the instance on to heroic to attempt Morchok, and generates the permanent lockout #1H.
This is now the ONLY instance this reset they can kill heroic bosses in. If the raid splits up, then the first person to reform the raid and kill Morchok on Heroic will have defeated him, and NONE of the other 9 can fight him on heroic.

Wrong, if you don't kill anything there is no save.

Then explain to me why you get asked "if you want to accept" a save when you enter a heroic instance that has yet to kill Morchok.

You don't.

[Deleted]

It's simple: While you haven't killed any bosses, regardless if you wiped on heroic on not, you aren't saved. If you leave during a try and that try ends up being a kill, you will get saved, though. After you've killed, say, Morchok HC, a heroic lockout is generated and you can only kill bosses on heroic with that lockout. You can however kill normal bosses in any lockout, as long as morchok is defeated in that lockout. However, if you don't kill Morchok at all, and decide to join a group that is on Yor'sahj, when you enter the raid instance on heroic, you will be saved to that heroic lockout, meaning you can't kill morchok regardless if you kill yor'sahj or not and you can't kill any heroic bosses on any other lockout.

[maky13]

It does :S
We had some very educative lost progress weeks
1) with halfus being tried on 25 heroic only to discover that were locked out in 10.
And then 2) With 2 different 10 mans trying him on heroic and the second day merging into one 10 to discover that we couldnt swap to heroic.
That happened with Chimaeron 25 and 10 man combo as well
So it got us screwed in 2 different raids (one of them at the first boss) for a nice total of 3 weeks lost.

Chimaeron is normal because you have to kill something else to get to him. When you set instance to heroic, if other bosses were killed, it creates an ID and from there you can`t swap from 25H to 10H and can`t split/merge different IDs.
Halfus sounds weird. It could be either that I remember it wrong (will really check it tonight), or that a manual instance reset is needed (with everyone outside of the instance and so on).

[Deleted]

if you get into an heroic raid you get an ID EVEN if you didn't kill any boss.
So you can't join a 1/8 hc group or you can't even merge 10 different people who've all tried morchok hm but didn't kill him

[Deleted]

if you get into an heroic raid you get an ID EVEN if you didn't kill any boss.
So you can't join a 1/8 hc group or you can't even merge 10 different people who've all tried morchok hm but didn't kill him

No - you don't get it until you kill a boss.

If I join an heroic raid part way through with an alt and we wipe then I get the warning every time I go back in until I get a boss kill.

[Deleted]

No - you don't get it until you kill a boss.

If I join an heroic raid part way through with an alt and we wipe then I get the warning every time I go back in until I get a boss kill.

that's normal,in heroic you're stuck with that group

[FieryBull]

When I click accept I don't get an ID. The only times I get an ID is when I kill a boss. (or attempt, not sure)

Talking about heroic here.