Indeed, but it would matter in two important ways.
New dungeons/super rare items: There is a group of players that primarily run dungeons, so if a new "tier" of dungeons were to come out, that would mean that this group would have a huge edge over free players in acquiring loot. The same applies for the rare epic drops from existing dungeons (I still don't have that damn cleric tanking mace to go with my shield).
Perception: Perception counts for a lot. If people perceive that they are getting a bad deal, or are getting shafted, they're going to get upset. The reality doesn't matter, it's the perception that's more important. Even if the reality is that subscribers will rarely ever roll need on an item (I could see some doing it to be dicks in this situation though), that's not what people will see. They'll see that subscribers get a big bonus to loot rolls and will flip.
Aion has a great model, Tera's model looks quite solid, DCUO has a very good model, TSW has a spectacular model (though it's B2P). There are plenty that haven't gone down in quality since transitioning, and have models that don't restrict the hell out of you or constantly remind you that you're a freeloader (EQ2/SWTOR being two that do those things constantly).
Hmm...if something I said was hypocritical, then it wasn't intended. I think I was calling out people for dismissing a thread without merit. I'm not sure how that applies as you are dismissing a potential F2P model of Rift, also without merit.
Seems pretty much the same and not hypocritical to me.
I'm quick to dismiss something based on lots of lots of previous evidence, but I'm not going to have a knee jerk reaction or utter abhorrence to something like this.
BAD WOLF
Not to mention that they will probably expand chronicles which also provide similar gear.
I think that and just playing the game/farming are adequate reasons to want BiS PvE gear.
I've never bought the whole excuse that if you don't raid you shouldn't want the highest gear. That's a pretty non logical argument that has been ised in WoW by elitists (not saying you are one) forever.
It's a pretty basic principle. If there are rewards, people will want them. If those rewards will make the game easier/better for them, helpt hem accomplish different types of goals, and/or help them feel their character has progressed...then they rightfully desire those rewards. I don't think the acquisition rate should be equal, but I don't see any reason to distinguish the actual value of the items other than cosmetic.
BAD WOLF
Oh! I thought we were talking about stats. My bad.
edit: looking at upgraded vanq token gear and it's still gilded rather than shadow so both IS and expert share a crystal even when both are maxed. Raid gear has little bit better stats and uses a better crystal. But that's to be expected.
Last edited by Bardarian; 2013-01-24 at 06:09 PM.
(Warframe) - Dragon & Typhoon-
(Neverwinter) - Trickster Rogue & Guardian Fighter -
I want them to do the korean version, f2p to lvl 49-50 or something like that. No restrictions in warfront participation. It would bring quite sweet pvp among the f2p-players not ruined by the cranky old vets holding back any pvp progress of this game. F2p-players would get it's own bracket, gear restrictions the f2p-model usually has would make pvp more even and balance than endgame, it would be best pvp rift has ever seen =) A good way to get some pvp-players back in game. And cash shop can sell wardrobe items usable on all levels, to get a little cash from these players. Pvp problem solved, vets get to keep their endgame ganking, f2p-players and new players get more balanced and more interesting pvp and neither of them shall ever meet =)
Just to add, pvp was always broken in this game... can't see why they wouldnt hand a part of that game out for free.
Well, I am an elitist. While I do strive to help people on forums and even in-game, if you are not willing to put forth the effort and play the way I play you are not going to be in my guild running raids with me. So yeah, I am elitist. Also, if you do not raid, completing some of the hardest chellenges in the game, why are you entitled to the same gear I am? You are not. You did not put in the hours of attempts for progression. The struggle of building a guild. The hassle of gearing people up to watch them leave just to help the next asshat gear up. If you don't go through that struggle, you do not deserve the same gear as the people that do. Saying that you do is akin to socialism and saying that a burger flipper deserves to make as much money as the guy who owns the company. I mean, they both work there everyday right? So they should make the same amount of money?
---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 12:07 PM ----------
is ould include the 70 AP and the increase in my skills damages as stats worth mentioning.
That's a bit of a stretch.
How about this, if they added a 4th tier to IS, 3rd tier to expert but they required even more tokens (like 500 for small core or something).
Using your analogy, the guy who runs the company (the raider) is going to make a million dollars much faster than the burger flipper and log far less hours in an effort to complete his raid tier. The burger flipper (the world event guy) is going to have to work overtime for the entirety of his life in order to reach that million dollar mark.
To jump to the "socialism" bit is not only extremely it's not even relevant.
(Warframe) - Dragon & Typhoon-
(Neverwinter) - Trickster Rogue & Guardian Fighter -
And when said burger flipper reaches that million dollar mark, that owner will have reached 10 million or more. They will not be sitting there even at any point whatsoever. In game, you will be sitting there equal, and with that extreme on an IS cost, you'll have put in the same amount of time with half the stress and half the skill needed as well.
The player that can be dedicated enough to the game and his guild and has the skills required to down those bosses deserves better than the guy who just sits there afk until a zone event pops and goes and tags one invasion, possibly dieing in the process.
Which is another reason why the socialism thing doesn't work here. If there is a set goal, in this case a complete raiding set, then how does that even translate to the owner/burger flipper? I can fabricate a goal of a million dollars but that's not even a real goal either of them might have. It's completely arbitrary. Unlike life, in video games there tends to be defined goals that you achieve from playing it. Expanding the methods you can use to achieve that goal stands to increase the number of people who might enjoy your game. The socialism example is a false equivalence.
In video games with mass appeal there is usually a "two track" method to achieving the goal. Ever heard the say "time not skill"? There tends to be a fast track for skilled players and a slower track for less skilled players. The slower track tends to be mainly grinding, collecting, ect ect ect.
It might offend you that people on the slow track could possibly reach you with enough time spent, but for many its viewed as a more fair system.
(Warframe) - Dragon & Typhoon-
(Neverwinter) - Trickster Rogue & Guardian Fighter -
I said it was akin to socialism, not the exact same thing.
Also, in a system where not raiding you can get the same thing I can, with less hours, frustration and skill that is pretty close to a trash truck driver with no skills making the same amount a a Doctor with 8-12 years of school. You want what I have but do not want to work for it.
False. The game dictates the challenges and rewards. You do not. Skill≠Effort. Saying raiding takes more effort is arbitrary and not a fact.
What percentage of raiders go through these struggles. 5%? 1%? Normally just the GM or Raid leader. So your argument is actually saying that your raiders who just show up and do what they are supposed to don't deserve as many rewards as you do because you 'built a guild'. I wouldn't want to be in your raid group. That's not a very humble attitude.
It's not even remotely close. They have the same potential for earnings. It will take much harder and longer work/effort on a lower paid employee to reach standards of a CEO. This is exactly what happens in the real world and exactly what would happen in the microcosm of providing the same rewards in a video game.
Additionally, video games are products that make more money with more customer satisfaction. Adamantly saying that there are social classes that need to be upheld, in a society where most people are disgusted by them, is like asking for your game to fail from personal selfishness.
As someone who raided hardcore and competitively, I see nothing wrong with people coming in my footsteps obtaining the same rewards I had for less effort and at a quicker pace. Never have, never will. It's good for the game, it's good for me.
---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:55 PM ----------
Example is not even close to anything that happens in a video game. Example also wrongly assumes inherent values in the game which don't exist. Asking for a different goal to work towards with the same rewards isn't 'wanting what you have but not wanting to work for it'.
BAD WOLF