See my above commentary; new tanks are not learning what their role actually is because they're masquerading as damage dealers. You may say "that's in LFR, who cares?" The answer, of course, is everyone. Recruitment churn has been a part of the game since its inception, and with new tanks not learning the fundamentals, guilds are going to have to try and teach them. The previous druid I tanked with thought Growl was a part of his threat rotation.
That's what I'm talking about.
Nice try. I was contributing meaningful damage before the introduction of Vengeance, so don't start arguing that suddenly it's only Vengeance that's made it happen. That's complete and utter hogwash.
What tank classes were you playing? Protection warriors were already pretty active, given that they had to think about Thunder Clap, Demoralizing Shout, Shield Block, Sunder Armour, major cooldowns AND threat/damage. Hell, during Cataclysm, keeping Rend up was a fun and engaging part of this. You say there was no skill cap when there was, so I can only surmise you were playing a paladin; the most passive tank of the lot where mandatory debuffs are applied for you.
But I think your next comment needs a dose of reality - it's currently missing it.
So, you're arguing that Vengeance gives the following (taken from your previous comment):
- Active mitigation.
- A break from avoidance gearing.
- More fun and engagement.
- A skill cap.
Active mitigation: In most cases, wholly devolved from Vengeance. My toolkit consists of Shield Block, Disarm, Thunderclap, Demoralizing Shout, Demoralizing Banner, Last Stand, Shield Wall, Rallying Cry, Pummel and Spell Reflect. The only exception is Shield Barrier, which could be more easily scaled from mastery.
Avoidance gearing: Hit and expertise are now valuable for resource generation, completely devolved from Vengeance and applicable in lieu of it.
Fun and engaging gameplay: Sanctity of Battle has nothing to do with Vengeance whatsoever, and is probably the best example of how to make tanking more fun.
A skill cap: This is so off the mark it's almost funny. Your active mitigation buttons (and major cooldowns) all work entirely independently of Vengeance.
Vengeance gives nothing - absolutely nothing. Everything you're saying Vengeance does can be done entirely independent of it, and we know this because we managed to do it in WotLK and before. For someone that's played so long, your memory is starting to fail you.
Read as:
"I haven't a clue how to convince you, so I'll hide behind a thin veil of incredulous sneering".
Your argument has been weighed, measured and found wanting.
Sure, you can draft up wild theories of how Vengeance tried to "fix" something that wasn't inherently broken, but you have to know that it sounds ridiculous.
An enrage mechanic that inflates tank DPS needlessly, makes taunt swaps frustrating, causes output and mitigation to fluctuate wildly, is causing bad habits amongst new tanks and needs to be disabled in PvP because it breaks the game. The methods of AP scaling prior to Cataclysm were far simpler and more transparent, and mastery could easily be used to plug any awkward gaps.
Yet again, we have another failure to defend Vengeance.
Who's up next?