For me the 2 hardest are feral druids and dks in general. I hate the rune system.
For me the 2 hardest are feral druids and dks in general. I hate the rune system.
if you look at it say perfect rotations, favorable rng and excellent timings you could judge by simulationcraft as a basis.
Exactly this. the colors don't mean that much if you know what you're trying to do. Like I'm not going to refresh my dots if UVLS pops and the bars are orange/red? or if DS cooldown is coming up and my bars all say green (because of Jade spirit or something), I'm not going to blindly refresh that because I know a better scenario is just around the corner.
And the colors don't mean anything if you're doing the SoulSwap cheese on Megaera or Council.
Also, the post about Affliction being super RNG dependent is spot on. I can't speak for other classes, but given that our base resource is generated almost entirely by RNG it's likely that RNG affects Affliction more than most other class/specs.
Last edited by schmearcampain; 2013-05-18 at 11:46 PM.
Very hard to say, they've streamlined it a lot. All classes are at the point where you don't really gain very much - in terms of numbers at least - by being more skilled.
It's becoming more and more about gear setup (was like that before as well, but then you could easily notice the difference between a mediocre player and a skilled player at a glance, now you practically need to look at logs of everything).
Last edited by Fojos; 2013-05-19 at 02:53 AM.
this. i think it's bad to follow that addon blindly, much better to see your buffs/procs as well as the addon and make your own decision based on the situation.
Otherwise though, I think this is kind of a weird thread. If you wana see the top dps specs go look on simcraft and/or worldoflogs. After you know which specs are the best, of course then skill comes into play, but if you consider that skill is the same across the board, the better specs will do better.
imo the hardest class to do good with is a warlock and the easiest is probably assasination rogue. I got both these classes along with mage and a shadow priest which I could put somewhere inbetween in a lock > shadow priest > mage > rogue relation. Although I guess regarding mage - if ua re fire or frost its pretty easy, but as arcane it might be abit tricky
Last edited by Makarena; 2013-05-19 at 06:18 PM.
In what world? Destruction is the spec you can get the least out compared to demo and aff. This is also due to UVLS, of course, but in general you can get much more out of demo if you play fantastically well than you get out of destro.
In any case, it's really warlock, especially if you have UVLS.
---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 10:25 PM ----------
Ah, and this is exactly why so many warlocks are bad. They either don't give two shits about their procs or they blindly follow affdots and then wonder why their dps is not so good.
Affdots is great to do what you did before in your head, namely keep track of current dot power compared to what procs you have. It by no means takes out the skill of it. If you refresh wrongly, too early, or too late, green number or not, you just fucked your dps.
I'd actually say that Feral is harder now than it was in T7-8. You've removed the 12 second duration Mangle buff and extended Savage Roar, but you've added Thrash at 15 second duration and DoC usage. If you have RoR, that's another element added to the rotation. Not to mention that now you have two viable builders (Mangle and Shred) and you actually have to make an informed decision to use one over the other.
i'd say any tank, though prot paladin might be most fun due to 1sec gcd and more buttons in rotation than DK, monk and warrior.
How do you figure that? Since tanks DPS rotation is as important, if not more important than any DPS's rotation. Especially considering as for most tanks, their rotation is directly linked to their rotation.
Keeping yourself alive as a tank is much harder than keeping yourself alive as a dps.
If you die as a tank it is most likely a direct wipe since it often result in secondary deaths before you can get ressed.
All while focusing on your defensive CDs etc you also have to focus on your rotation.
Not saying tanks have the highest skill cap, though it is very likely. Maybe healers.
Saying that a tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environments could be applied to any dps class in the same fashion as a tank dps rotation is just as important as a tanks. If you are at that stage of the game that your tank is pressing random buttons and you are still killing the boss. If your tank was pressing the correct buttons you could instead have 1 dps and 1 healer pressing random buttons.
That said, does not mean that some tanks have gotten completely carried in high tier guilds. I think that is mostly because people did not focus that much on tanks in MoP and a lot of the high tier guilds did not really realise how high potential the tanking classes had. The most famous example of this was probably Fraggoji in Paragon T14.
You're correct of course! Throwing out chaos bolts, etc. at the right time is important and having them up when you need them and managing embers/shards/fury is what it comes down to for warlocks. However, I was answering the OP about mana management which I still feel is pretty much none-existant. The dps classes that I play at the moment (lock & ret paladin) have no issues with mana. But you're absolutely correct when saying that there is more to resource management than mana. Something I simply overlooked..
You forgot the hardest of all steps: educating the rest of your raid. Getting them to avoid being around you so that a boss ability doesn't target them while they are near you, forcing you to move. I swear that people see the runes on the ground as some sort of a bonus for them to stand in. Trying to convey to them that they cannot be near you because it can hamper your DPS by a huge amount and they actually listen is a challenge all to itself.
to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so
honestly its been a while since i progressed as a tank in 25m heroic (raggi hc and early ds hc) so my pov (heroic 25m) may be outdated. the main factor i found the skill cap is rather low is that the rotations were very blunt and also had rather low impact on your dps as external sources like vengeance uptime and expertise/hit were ways more important. so the gain of perfectly pushing your 4 dps buttons was abysmal.
so as long as your macro was okay (pulling boss the right way, using your cds properly) the tank was very good.
as a dps you're always competing against one or two of your own class so i find it more interesting and rewarding to work on your dps output as the equivalent of skill was measurable.
in high end guilds? never had a tougher time staying alive as a hunter in ds hc before det buff.Keeping yourself alive as a tank is much harder than keeping yourself alive as a dps.
as a tank the damage income is always predictable. if the boss hits hard, start with your short cd low resistance cd. if it runs out and you drop low, activate next cd/trinket. and so on. quite easy once you learned it the right way. you hardly have to even look for them as its always alternating.
taunt 1: low cd cd, later trinket or longer cd, afterwards cd 2
taunt 2: low cd cd, other long time cd, external cd
taunt 3: repeat from step one.
obviously its more dangerous if a tank dies but unless you screw up cds (low skillcap to me) or your Ot doesnt taunt (low skillcap either) its not your fault and is more a point of healers allocation.If you die as a tank it is most likely a direct wipe since it often result in secondary deaths before you can get ressed.
All while focusing on your defensive CDs etc you also have to focus on your rotation.
probably things have changed alot and tank rotations got very interesting/complex. i find healers to be very different, but as rare as skillfull healers are, as rare can they shine (it was incredible what impact healers had on fights like raggi back then).ild definitely agree with you here. highest skillcap but least recognizedNot saying tanks have the highest skill cap, though it is very likely. Maybe healers.
rather the opposite to me. if not every dps pulls 100% youll have no chance to beat enrage unless your gear advantage is very high. and as i said, tank rotation had rather low impact back then. especially when you didnt have vengeance during offtanking.Saying that a tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environments could be applied to any dps class in the same fashion as a tank dps rotation is just as important as a tanks. If you are at that stage of the game that your tank is pressing random buttons and you are still killing the boss. If your tank was pressing the correct buttons you could instead have 1 dps and 1 healer pressing random buttons.
always a matter of opinion. to me skill is a combination of "macro" and "micro". as a tank the macro is rather hard like maintaing rotation, moving boss, cd management and most tanks in non top 100 and even top end tanks dont shine in it. but once youre above the point of learning it, it gets rather unimportant how skillful you are beyond.
for dps the macro would be rotation without standing in the fire which is very easy comparatively except probably less predictable as lots of abilities dont even hit you every try in 25m.
but the perfect execution of the rotation would be the micro for me both have in common. as the tanks rotation is (was) rather blunt and unimportant ild call its impact and skillcap rather low. whereas as a dps always gains more of perfect execution as hes in a direct comparison with his classmates/wol.
tldr: if you learned your tanking macro, youre pretty much settled as a tank. if you are a dps, improve steadily or you lose your raidspot.
Last edited by mmocaba1459261; 2013-05-20 at 02:29 PM.
You are comparing Cata tanking with Cata/MoP dpsing. MoP changed a lot in tanking.
---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 03:58 PM ----------
So tell me. What is the difference between a dps playing badly and doing 50k dps less then he should or a tank playing badly and doing 50k dps less than he should?
The only real difference is that the tank playing badly would be more likely to cause raid wipes, also the damage difference between a good tank and a tank is larger than the difference between a good or bad dps.
You are living in the past. Back in Cata I would agree with you, but this is not Cata anymore.
Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-05-20 at 03:58 PM.