Best tier 7 talents on each BRF encounter?

[Rapalabrowns]

I'm not mentioning tier 4 as I don't use anything but INC anymore.

The difference between euphoria/BoP comes down to movement requirements, and adds. Lots of movement + many adds with high health = BoP. Little to no movement + low health or no adds = euphoria. That's at least my general understanding of their usage.

It seems the equation for Stellar Flare being viable would be high to extreme movement requirements + low number of adds with lots of health. If that's true then Hans & Franz and maybe The Iron Maidens would be the right time to use stellar flare.


Gruul - Euphoria -- in general moderate to low movement no adds
Oregorger - Euphoria -- phase 1 is very little movement no adds
Blast Furnace - BoP -- high movement and tons of adds everywhere at all times
Hans & Franz - Stellar Flare -- extremely high movement and only two total targets throughout the entire fight.
Flamebender Ka'graz - BoP -- moderate movement requirements, the dogs are up for a pretty long period of time and need to die simultaneously.
Kromag - Eurphoria -- Moderate movement, only adds are low health hands where you wont have time to dot them.
Beastlord Darmac - Euphoria/BoP -- Unsure on this one moderate movement, lots of adds but mostly particularly low health.
Operator Thogar - Euphoria -- Lots of standing still and flat dps on boss. Lots of adds but all very low health and not worth moonfiring.
The Iron Maidens - Euphoria/Stella Flare -- moderate movement, 3 constant targets with lots of health. I think Stellar Flare COULD be viable here.
Blackhand - Euphoria/Stellar Flare -- same as above moderate movement, 2 constant targets with lots of health (tank and Blackhand)


This is all based on what I've read and seen, so obviously there's room for improvement here. The post regarding tier 7 talents for HM helped me a lot as I was just starting to learn boomkin, played resto for years.

[Scenarios]

Did a few bosses last night and here is a little information on what I used on those fights.

Gruul - Euphoria. Pretty straight forward fight. No adds or anything so great SS uptime.

Oregorger - BOP. I really only took this for the boxes. I just popped starfall and ran through dotting them all up. I pulled about 4k more dps than the other boomkin who used Euphoria.

Blast Furnace - BOP. Sooooo many adds. Not really spending time on SS. Starfall is up almost all the time. Didn't make it to phase 3 though.

H&F - Euphoria. Not a ton of moving and with them both not being up at the same time I got a decent mix of Starfall and SS.

Beastlord - BOP. May switch to Euphoria next time. I thought BOP would be good going into it but adds die so fast.

[Casagrande]

Since you didn't specify a spec:

Gruul: Pulverize
Oregorger: Possibly Bristling Fur after patch 6.1 hits, meanwhile Pulverize.
Blast Furnace: Pulverize
Hans and Franz: Pulverize
Firebender: Pulverize
Kromog: Pulverize
Beastlord: Pulverize
Operator Thogar: Pulverize
Iron Maidens: Pulverize
Blackhand: Guardian of... just kidding, it's Pulverize.

[Rapalabrowns]

Yea just went through Gruul/Oregorger last night on heroic. I'd stick with Euphoria for Oregorger, there's plenty of time to get off good rotations in that fight.

I'm DEFINITELY using BOP on Blast Furnace, we never got past stage 2 last night. In stage 1 if you split the room by furnaces your side has 4-5 consistent adds with lots of health. We haven't really stabilized well enough in stage 2, but from what I can tell there will be plenty of adds the entire stage there as well, likely more than stage 1 as your entire raid stacks at this point.

[Shotdabow]

Keep in mind Stellar Flare hasn't received its buff yet as thats in 6.1. I personally will be sticking to Euphoria/BOP. What I would suggest is something along the lines of:

Gruul: Euphoria, easily. No extra adds and a little bit of movement.
Oregorger: Euphoria or BOP, both have their strengths. Not much movement in P1, but tons in P2 which makes BOP better imo.
Blast Furnace: BOP. Lots of adds, not much time to hard cast.
H&F: Either or, although I would favor Euphoria since both bosses are not active the entire fight and I'm not sure if they still take damage while inactive (if they do, perhaps BoP would be better).
Flamebender: BOP, I personally spent a lot more time starfalling on Flamebender, which favors using BOP, plus as the OP said the dogs are up quite often and for a decent amount of time.
Kromag: Euphoria, only adds are the hands that need to be dps'd to break people out, starfall will do work here but they don't have enough health to bother dotting them.
Beastlord: Euphoria, adds don't live very long so BOP doesn't get a ton of benefit here.
Operator: Euphoria, basically the same deal as Beastlord.
Iron Maidens: BOP, 3 targets (too bad they don't share health) plus adds.
Blackhand: Euphoria, haven't seen the fight myself nor read much on it, so I'll just slap Euphoria here :P

[Deleted]

This is done assuming that the 6.1 SfL buff is live, early thoughts on mythic talents (also assuming that you have 2/4 tier)

Gruul: Euphoria, no brainer
Oregorger: kinda close between all 3, depends of your play style/tactics
Blast Furnance: Close between all 3. Mainly due to the dps checks in the fight, probably still euphoria
H&F: SfL or Euphoria, probably SfL
Flamebender: Flare
Kromag: Euphoria, enough time to dot not enough time to benefit
Beastlord: Tactic dependent, but probably BoP, flare also has strengths
Operator: BoP/Flare, a lot of priority targets, BoP gains an advantage on the low health targets
Iron maidens: Likely Flare, will see when i get to see this properly
Blackhand: your best guess is as good as mine

[Deleted]

Havent tried it yet, but I am 98% positive that Germination will still be the best on every single boss. For resto that is.

[Confirmed]

Gruul - Euphoria --
Oregorger - Euphoria
Blast Furnace - I ran Euphoria for Heroic, Hard casting is pivotal for killing the primal elementalists and then again once you break the boss out.. other then that you can cleave and tab dot with sunfire and chaining starfalls.
Hans & Franz - Euphoria- stellar flare is still terrible.. I don't see adding another dot as a 100 talent.. especially one with a cast time that needs to be casted in a neutral state of eclipse.... so you should probably just work on positioning.
Flamebender Ka'graz - Euphoria, I rarely had to move on this fight on heroic. Tab dotted the dogs and let out a starfall continued single target rotation on the focus target.
Kromag - Eurphoria -- Moderate movement, only adds are low health hands where you wont have time to dot them.
Beastlord Darmac - Euphoria- spam starfall the adds die fast. use sunfire to dot them.
Operator Thogar - Euphoria -- There is more moving on this boss then any other thus far. You can get hit by a train though if you cast hard enough . BUT depending on how you balance your rotation when you have to move you can get off your starsurge and move out of the way and then go back to casting your emp. Starfire or wrath.
The Iron Maidens - Euphoria/Stella Flare --
Blackhand - Euphoria/Stellar Flare --

the last 2 we pull tomorrow on heroic so I can't answer. But especially with the 2pc t17 it just personifies euphoria as a go to talent. Im not huge on BOP or Stellar flare though BOP actually makes some sense (it also makes the rotation easier for beginner boomkins) Stellar flare is the most lackluster talent ever though.

Cheers

[Deleted]

People who pick BoP over Euphoria on The Blast Furnance are pure dps whores or have no idea how the fight works.

The only time you really need dps is when you have to kill the Primal Elementalist and in last phase, which is both single target. Euphoria is going to be the best here, not for more dmg but for more needed dmg. You do enough aoe without the BoP and you need the single target way more in the importand phases.

[randytaylor]

Euphoria on every fight, hands down.

Gruul - ST/Low movement
Ore - ST/Medium movement
Darmac - Things need to die quickly/can throw a starfall out each lunar phase
Flamebender - I just starfall when wolves are out with them dotted up and focus the boss
Hanz and Franz - Medium movement/there's just too much time where you're only able to attack one of them
Kromog - Only starfalling when grasped
Operator - Targets that really have to die quick and movement can entirely be predicted
BF - High priority targets that need to be killed aside from an extra starfall here and there
IM - dont think you're going to wanna try keeping Flare up on them
BH - Euphoria easily

[Fountaiin]

Since you didn't specify a spec:

Gruul: Pulverize
Oregorger: Possibly Bristling Fur after patch 6.1 hits, meanwhile Pulverize.
Blast Furnace: Pulverize
Hans and Franz: Pulverize
Firebender: Pulverize
Kromog: Pulverize
Beastlord: Pulverize
Operator Thogar: Pulverize
Iron Maidens: Pulverize
Blackhand: Guardian of... just kidding, it's Pulverize.

He talked about BOP/Euph and stellar flare. Wonder what spec he plays Kappa

[Phoon]

Gruul: Euphoria. No adds, light movement.
Oregorger: Euphoria - Boxes are too spread out to run BoP to get anything out of the talent and you risk to much running around the map dotting.
Hanz & Franz: Euphoria - primarily a ST fight with one of them being off the main area for so long. Stellar Flare could be used 6.1.
Blast Furnace: Euphoria - An AoE fight on first sight but the real fight begins in p2 where you need high ST damage on select targets. (Stellar flare will probably take over on this fight once raids get more gear.)
Flamebender Ka'graz: Euphoria - I could see Stellar Flare being used here but it would still be behind on DPS imo, adds don't stay up long enough.
Kromog: Euphoria - Starfall 1-2 times per Rune cast. Not really enough time to dot outside of a a few sunfires due to the hands massive hitbox
Beastlord: Euphoria - Adds don't stay up long enough.
Operator Thogar: Euphoria - You should have other classes in the raid that do more burst AoE dps than but if the timing is right Starfall is an option but not something we should be focusing on.
Iron Maidens: BoP (Stellar Flare for 6.1) Once ships start and bombs start to fly down it turns into a pretty heavy movement fight(~1 starfire cast per explosion) + last phase cannons make it pretty difficult to get even one cast off unless you're on the other side not helping the raid.
Black Hand: Euphoria - There is one phase with additional targets and it doesn't warrant taking away our ST DPS

[Ctee]

Can we get some Resto input here?

[ShmooDude]

Just recently started playing balance due to feral's terrible AoE so most of what I know comes from what I see in simcraft.

Does anyone know how accurate it is for Balance because from what I'm seeing, Euphoria is better single target, and negligible difference (1-2%) multi-target. Even a 3 target fight with "Heavy Movement" (25 yards to move every 10 seconds) Euphoria comes out on top/equal with BoP. Note I added moonfire/sunfire to the bottom of the action list so it gets used during movement but it didn't really change anything about the balance between the two talents.

Or is there some nuance that simcraft simply isn't picking up.

[Deleted]

Can we get some Resto input here?

I posted smth for restos.

[Deleted]

you use euph way too much imo keep in mind that once you get 2 set bonus you can almost use w.e and that BoP single target beats Euph later on. especially in 6.1 with BoP buffs.

[Teph]

Blackhand is definitley euphoria. You don't do much dmg to the tank anyways and this phase doesn't matter. It's all about single target dps in p3.

I also don't see anything else on Flamebender. Dogs died quickly and had a low uptime.

[Deleted]

Blackhand is definitley euphoria. You don't do much dmg to the tank anyways and this phase doesn't matter. It's all about single target dps in p3.

I also don't see anything else on Flamebender. Dogs died quickly and had a low uptime.

i disagree. here are 3 points on why.

1: As we stated on all other threads that at certain point 2 set or 4 set etc. BoP gives more single target dps than Euph does.

2: now we have to take in mind that on Blackhand. you are moving a lot. (phase 1 tons of things that fall down, where i don't believe you ignore it and free cast) Yes hunters can line up with their fox but still you are moving. which makes your casting worse than what dots can deal as dmg. and every sec your not casting BoP gets more favoured than Euph does.

3: Are you talking about normal blackhand?. I'm pretty sure you do, the aim here is i guess for people who wants to continue progress on higher difficulties. So i believe in phase 2 you pretty much want to dot the siege tank and use starfall. where you then focus on blackhand but still you are a boomie and you should do so. and it might not be much but when changing phases having dots to do the extra dmg where everyone is falling might sometimes give you a kill rather than wipe since we all know a lot of people wipe on 4%.

for me BRF is the raid where you should try to avoid Euph i pretty much only like it on Grull

[Deleted]

i disagree. here are 3 points on why.

1: As we stated on all other threads that at certain point 2 set or 4 set etc. BoP gives more single target dps than Euph does.

2: now we have to take in mind that on Blackhand. you are moving a lot. (phase 1 tons of things that fall down, where i don't believe you ignore it and free cast) Yes hunters can line up with their fox but still you are moving. which makes your casting worse than what dots can deal as dmg. and every sec your not casting BoP gets more favoured than Euph does.

3: Are you talking about normal blackhand?. I'm pretty sure you do, the aim here is i guess for people who wants to continue progress on higher difficulties. So i believe in phase 2 you pretty much want to dot the siege tank and use starfall. where you then focus on blackhand but still you are a boomie and you should do so. and it might not be much but when changing phases having dots to do the extra dmg where everyone is falling might sometimes give you a kill rather than wipe since we all know a lot of people wipe on 4%.

for me BRF is the raid where you should try to avoid Euph i pretty much only like it on Grull

You are wrong, You need to use your talents not to gain the most dps, but to gain the most dps in the phases you need it.

Asuming you're a mythic raider you should know this.

I doubt anyone cares that you do 10% more dmg on the cannon in p2, they will however care that you do a lot more dmg on Blackhand in p3 seeing that that is by far the hardest phase.

Almost every boss has situations like this which makes Euphoria better, because its all about WHEN you need the dmg, not when you get higher rankings because during progress you really should'nt care about those.

[bmjclark]

Euphoria on every fight, hands down.

Gruul - ST/Low movement
Ore - ST/Medium movement
Darmac - Things need to die quickly/can throw a starfall out each lunar phase
Flamebender - I just starfall when wolves are out with them dotted up and focus the boss
Hanz and Franz - Medium movement/there's just too much time where you're only able to attack one of them
Kromog - Only starfalling when grasped
Operator - Targets that really have to die quick and movement can entirely be predicted
BF - High priority targets that need to be killed aside from an extra starfall here and there
IM - dont think you're going to wanna try keeping Flare up on them
BH - Euphoria easily

Euphoria seemed like the clear winner on every fight minus iron maidens and blast furnace. Blast furnace you will get more dps out of balance of power but it's not necessarily on important targets, i'd still probably take balance of power after i did the fight on heroic because the extra dot damage kind of helped clear up the clusterfuck we had going on in phase 2 (there were so many orc adds alive it was insane) and we were still getting the primal elementalists down in good time. In general euphoria is probably better.

As for iron maidens, if you take euphoria on this fight over balance of power or flare i don't really know what to say :P. The top WCL moonkin cast starsurge 10 times in a 10 minute fight, that's so little benefit from euphoria it isn't even worth looking at.