H Blast Furnace P2 issues

[Sosoz]

So a good 64 wipes into blast furnace and starting to think its not the strategy that's the major issue. After tonight we finally started getting out of phase one clean with no operators up and just feldspar left to deal with.

We go through phase one by having each of our priest mc an engineer to get bombs out asap. This has enabled us to get out of phase 1 with 10 seconds left till the next operator spawns consistently.

The issue starts when we bring down the primal elementalists shield and are never able to get them down in one slag bomb. We have yet to try having a few people pop potions on first and then rest on second cd's on third and lust on fourth due to just now being able to get to phase 2 without a ton of adds up or a tank dead.

Logs from our most recent night: warcraftlogs.com/reports/PpfTVhazZXc2Nr8C

Thanks for any help.

[IKnowMyClass]

Well, im not rly the "tactician" per say, but when we downed HC BF, we oneshotted only 1 of the elementalists, inbetween each elementalist we dotted/barraged/aoe in general onto the adds the other tank keeps away from the primals+slag elementals and the fire-callers.

[TomatoBisque]

I'm only looking at the last pull, if anything here is out of the ordinary let me know

You are killing the heat regulators at about 1:45 but have done almost no damage to the Foreman, causing you to spend the next 1:45 focusing him, finally killing him at a couple seconds after 3:30. There is no need to rush through phase 1 like this, and I feel like you are only hurting yourself because the damage in phase 2 is so much higher than phase 1 (Firecallers hurt like hell and he gains Heat at a much steadier rate).

At some points Firecallers are doing upwards of 75k dps to your raid--my guild has 20 people and it gets up to 50k at most, this is not okay. You cannot splash Volatile Fires in the raid, and you can't let Firecallers live to cast that shit on your raid. Your raid is taking more damage from Volatile Fire in a wipe that doesn't even kill the second elementalist than my guild does in a successful kill, and my guild has 66% more people. And this is setting the logs to ignore anything after the first death.

People are also standing in slag pools (the fire around the Heart) for extended periods of time. Your first death is because your DK is standing in it, and your Rogue dies not long after from the same thing.

tldr too much avoidable damage being taken also I question the "ignore Feldspar" strat

[apinksquash]

Just thought I'd just pop in and say what we do for this:

Start of Fight:
- We hero/bloodlust at the start and single target Feldspar down to around 50%. (There's obviously some AoE, but the point is you don't want the engineers dying)
- After Hero ends we split up into two separate groups on each side of the furnace. The side with Feldspar gets 2-3 extra dps and an extra healer.
- For instance, our last kill we did with 19 players. 1 tank, 7 dps, 3 healers went to the left side of the furnace with Feldspar. 1 tank, 5 dps, 2 healers went to the right side.
- It's important that the offtank (the one not tanking Feldspar) taunt an engineer and pull it away from where Feldspar and the other adds are being stacked during Hero/Bloodlust. He will want to tank that engineer and pick up any additional adds that spawn on his side of the furnace, while he waits for his dps to join him.

P1:
- Bellows Operators are the highest dps priority.
- Tanks keep the other adds near the Operators for cleave/AoE while moving them out of the shields.
- It's super important that people watch for engineers making a move towards the furnace. They need to be interrupted as soon as they start trying to repair.
- You want to get the heat regulators down before you get the 4th set of Operators. If you get a 4th set shortly before P2, it's going to make P2 much more difficult for you because you'll be wasting precious time trying to kill them (you want to get out of P2 as fast as possible) and they will be hitting your tanks extremely hard.

P1-P2 Transition:
- The tanks are going to be taking a lot of damage. You will want to rotate external CDs on them (Sac, pain supp, Ironbark, etc) until the operators are dead.
- After the operators are dead, everyone meets up one one side.
- Feldspar should be low on health.

P2:
- Finish off Feldspar.
- Finish off any adds from P1.
- Have your DK use Glyph of Icy Touch. He can dispel the Reactive Earth Shield off the Primal Elementalist easily (the buff that heals him after 8 seconds).
- Assign your two most raid aware players to interrupt the Firecallers during your burn phase on the Primals. You might have 2 of them up at the same time, and seeing when they are casting Cauterize can be tricky when there's so much craziness happening on the screen and you're under pressure to do high dps.
- Between Primals, or if you miss the first window on a Primal and have to do a second... have all your dps switch to and blow up the Firecallers. You don't ever want to have more than two up at a time.
- Make sure healers are being organized on when they use their CDs if they end up needing them towards the end of this phase.
- We pop dps potions on the last Primal.

P2-P3 Transition:
- Pop stampeding Roar, Fox and have all ranged stack up in the back corner of the room.
- Finish off any non-slag adds from P2.

P3:
- Easiest phase. Just move the boss slowly around from one corner of the room to the other.


EDIT:
Q: Why do we hero at the start?
A: Healing in P1 is not as stressful on healers as in P2. By getting Feldspar to half health or so right off the bat, you're ensuring he'll be dead, or close to dead by the time you enter P2. This saves you precious time trying to kill him off in P2, which is a huge deal. You don't want to be spending any significant time on him in P2, you want to start working on the primals and get out of that phase as quickly as possible.

If you do this strat and have Feldspar low going into P2, AND you don't get that 4th set of operators, you can actually afford to do two burn phases on the Primals due to the extra time you save. If you need two burns for ALL 4 of the primals it will be very rough towards the end and the healers will need really good CD usage to get you through it. It's much easier if you can kill at least 2 of them in one go between CDs and Pots.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=summary

[Deleted]

Last night my raid team were progressing on Blast Furnace and we finally managed to get it down after 30ish attempts. We had to boot a few players towards the end of the raid night who weren't pulling their weight or just playing badly. Took us 3 attempts after this to kill it!

In p2 what we did was clean up the Engineers and Feldspar as p2 started. We stacked a slag elemental on the Elementalist and killed it. Once the shield was down we stacked the security guards on top of the Elementalist and those with passive cleave cleaved and everyone who had to change their rotation to cleave just ST nuked it down. We never had problems killing the Elementalist in 1 shield down (We had 2 Fury warriors running Scabbard/Avatar/Siegebreaker, insane ST.) Once we killed one Elementalist we killed all the Firecallers and proceeded onto the next which meant the Warriors had their Scabbard/Avatar combo up for every elementalist. We popped Hero on the 4th Elementalist and last set of adds.

[Samfisher]

Looking at your last attempt only, your group DPS seems to be incredibly low to be doing H Blast Furnace. On our first kill our DPS were doing at least 30k DPS on Primals per person and on our latest kill I personally did 42k on Primals. Our first kill we had Melee pot for 2nd, Range pot for 3rd and 4th just burn with whatever is left but we saved Hero/Lust for start of P3.

[Taula]

As one of the people in these logs, I'll go into more detail about our strategies and issues we had.

Starting off we had Both groups split at the start, Prot Warrior, Rogue, Fury Warrior, Unholy DK, Disc Priest taking Feldspar, Engineer, and SGuard. Brewmaster Monk, Hunter, Fire Mage, Warlock, SPriest, and Resto Shammy would go to the other side.

Range Group would down their operator and engineer asap, leaving the SGuard for the monk to kill, then turn and throw some damage on Feldspar. Then returning to their side once Operator2 drops and continuing the fight this way. The issue with this strategy seemed to come from the Feldspar side. Once the Second/Third wave of Engineers&SGuards drop, the Prot Warrior cannot stay alive with Feldspar on him.

To counter the add issue, we moved the Mage over to Feldspar side in attempts to add more damage there, reducing the adds. However, that did little to remedy the situation.


We then tried using Mind Control. The Groups changed to Prot Warrior, Resto Sham, Unholy DK, Rogue, Fury Warrior, SPriest on the Feldspar side. The Range group now Brewmaster Monk, Fire Mage, Hunter, Disc Priest, Warlock. Right at the start of the fight, we'd allow the Engineer to throw his first bomb, then both priests would Mind Control, putting 4 bombs on a player. When the Mind Control broke, the dps focused down the Engineer. We were able to get 9 Bombs this way from the first Engineer. Following this, the second Operator would spawn and would be brought down as the second and third Engineers throw bombs/bomb bags, moving into Phase 2.

Damage on our Prot Warrior was extremely high still, but heat was extremely low. We'd gather up on Feldspar side and AoE down any Operators, Engineers, and SGuards that remained ontop of Feldspar. Then focusing Feldspar down. Monk would pull the guards away while Prot Warrior pulled Firecallers onto Elementalists. We'd pull a Slag in, force it to blow, then turn our attention to the Elementalist, attempting to get it down in one shield. Once we did get the Elementalist down, we killed remaining Firecallers and SGuards, then rinsed and repeated. We held onto Bloodlust in hopes of the 4th Elementalist, then cleaning adds quickly and moving onto the boss.

While avoidable damage still needed to be worked on, that was our general strategy towards the end.

[Pieterman]

Make sure the firecallers die before you attempt to bring down a slag elemental, and make sure you don't bring too many healers. Having too many healers will make it significantly harder to heal for obvious reasons. During our attempts we at first tried an extra healer, but after that we had 3 of them respec and it was much much smoother. If you cannot down the elementalists in time that's a very serious problem and you need stronger/more/better coordinated DPS to deal with that.

[Taula]

Make sure the firecallers die before you attempt to bring down a slag elemental, and make sure you don't bring too many healers. Having too many healers will make it significantly harder to heal for obvious reasons. During our attempts we at first tried an extra healer, but after that we had 3 of them respec and it was much much smoother. If you cannot down the elementalists in time that's a very serious problem and you need stronger/more/better coordinated DPS to deal with that.

How many healers would be considered "too many" for a group of 10-12?

We tried two healing, a Disc and Resto Shammy, but the Disc priest couldn't keep the Prot Warrior who was tanking Feldspar alive once the Second Operator and Adds dropped.

[Pieterman]

How many healers would be considered "too many" for a group of 10-12?

We tried two healing, a Disc and Resto Shammy, but the Disc priest couldn't keep the Prot Warrior who was tanking Feldspar alive once the Second Operator and Adds dropped.

It obviously depents on how good your group is. It's entirely possible that you need more out of everyone, so you need more gear/class experience. If you're being overrun it means you lack damage, if people can't be kept alive through the mechanics you lack healing. For a group of 12, 3 healers should be fine.

According to your logs your dps varies between 28 and 36k dps, which is imo simply not enough. On our most recent kill I pulled 38k(UH) which is on the low side for that fight. I have the excuse of being a bomb bag slut, but it's still low. It might be gear, it might be skill, but you seem to simply lack the firepower to down it currently.