BiS opener?

[Deleted]

Heya. So I would like some feedback on 2 opener methods.

Okay so assume the following talents specced: Elemental Mastery and Elemental Fusion. Also assume you have the Archimonde trinket.

The 1st scenario is: Prepot --->Pre-cast LvB --->Unleash Flame --->Flame shock --->Ascendance
The 2nd scenario :Prepot--->Pre-cast LvB --->Ascendance ---> 1 LvB --->Unleash Flame --->Flame shock --->Continue LvB spam during ascendance.

So obviously on 1st scenario you cast FS while having just 1 elemental fusion stack so you gotta refresh it at some point. If this is the best opener should you refresh just after Ascendance ends or cast ES and refresh later when you get 2 stacks again?

On 2nd scenario you get FS on 2 fusion stacks but you "lose" abit of ascendance.

Thoughts?

[zezaway]

Both are wrong, you never cast lava burst without flame shock applied on the enemy target, so your pre-cast should be lighning bolt.
ALso never apply flame shock while in ascendace, its a waste of gcd, just use your normal flame shock, before ascendance, then you use the buffed one after ascendance.

The best opener ( open to discussion ) is:
Unleash flame at 10 secs ----> At +/- 5,4 sec Fire totem ----> Pre-pot -----> Pre-cast lighning bolt ----> Flame shock ----> ascendance ( some people like to throw a lava burst before asc, cuz it resets, i dont like it at the pull because you lose some seconds of the weapon buff for example )
after asc is over you will have 2 charges, so buff it with your unleash flame and throw it at the target

[freddy090909]

some people like to throw a lava burst before asc, cuz it resets, i dont like it at the pull because you lose some seconds of the weapon buff for example

There's no difference between an ascendance lava burst and a normal lava burst. All you're doing is throwing away a cast of lava burst.

@OP: Just wait until after your ascendance to get your fully buffed flame shock out. Open as you normally would without the trinket.

[zezaway]

There's no difference between an ascendance lava burst and a normal lava burst. All you're doing is throwing away a cast of lava burst.

@OP: Just wait until after your ascendance to get your fully buffed flame shock out. Open as you normally would without the trinket.

Considering we combo asc with others cooldowns like our trinkects, racials, talents, it does!!
Also the weapon enchant activates at pull so using a single lava burst before asc may cause you to miss that buff, ending before asc is over

[freddy090909]

Considering we combo asc with others cooldowns like our trinkects, racials, talents, it does!!
Also the weapon enchant activates at pull so using a single lava burst before asc may cause you to miss that buff, ending before asc is over

So don't macro all of your cds together. You're literally just throwing a lava burst away, which doesn't hurt significantly in the grand scheme of things, but it is still the wrong thing to do.

I don't know what you're trying to say with your argument about the weapon enchant. As I said, a normal lava burst is no different from one during ascendance.

[Gistwiki]

( some people like to throw a lava burst before asc, cuz it resets, i dont like it at the pull because you lose some seconds of the weapon buff for example )

If you cast Lava Burst before Ascendance, you're losing nothing on the buff from Unleash Fury or your trinkets/prepot because the spell that you're casting for that global (and the 15s after it) is always Lava Burst regardless. Elemental Mastery lasts 20 seconds, and should be cast with the initial Lava Burst rather than the Ascendance. Yes, you should have them bound separately and not macro'd together if you want to use them optimally. The only thing to lose there is the Lava Burst lost when you Ascendance immediately after the Flame Shock.

The "optimal" opener in the situation described by the OP will vary depending upon the level 90 talent. Assuming Primal Elementalist:

5-10 seconds before the pull: Unleash Flame
~3 seconds before the pull: Fire Elemental Totem
Lightning Bolt
Flame Shock
Lava Burst
Ascendance

Assuming Unleashed Fury:

~15 seconds before the pull: Unleash Flame - If you can't do it 15s before, don't use it before the pull itself!
~3 seconds before the pull: Fire Elemental Totem
Lightning Bolt
Flame Shock
Unleash Flame
Lava Burst
Ascendance

In the second, the damage gained from Unleashed Flame/Fury in that case is worth more than the damage lost by delaying the ascendance by a global.

The opener can also change with Echo of the Elements once you have Core of the Primal Elements which is a specific case that actually proves the statement

you never cast lava burst without flame shock applied on the enemy target

to be wrong. The optimal opener (by a small margin) with Echo, EF, and Core is, again assuming PE:

At ~15 seconds before the pull: Unleash Flame - If you can't do it 15s before, don't use it before the pull itself!
At ~3 seconds before the pull: Fire Elemental
Lava Burstx2
Unleash Flame
Flame Shock
Ascendance

In this case, the damage gained by forcing an EFx2 + UF + FS early outweighs the damage lost by all other factors.

[Firebug1975]

Okay so assume the following talents specced: Elemental Mastery and Elemental Fusion. Also assume you have the Archimonde trinket.

-15 Unleash Flame
- 4 Fire Elemental Totem
- 3 Lightning Bolt macroed to Int Potion (the cast time + travel time will be fine, you won't ninja pull)
0 Flame Shock
1 Lava Burst (and clear any Lava Surges)
2 Ascendance (macroed to EM and LvB)

LB/Int Potion macro

/use [nocombat] Draenic Intellect Potion
/cast Lightning Bolt

Total waste of time trying to get an EFx2 FS up early using EM. Different story using EotE.

[Uggrukor]

Maybe I am an idiot but here is what I do, assuming Unleashed Fury and Fusion. Those talents aren't always practical depending on the fight but here is what I do:

- 4 sec, Fire Elemental
- 2-3 sec, Int Pot
- 1 LB into Flame Shock
- LavaB 2x
- Unleash into Flame Shock w/ 2x Fusion Stack
- Ascend

[Deleted]

Again an opener thread. How about you use the existing ones, where every single one of your stupid claims on the "perfect opener" are disproved by facts.

[Deleted]

I dont know which is the BiS opener. All I ever see is opinions. I wanna have facts as you say

[Deleted]

Go to page 2 or 3 of the Shaman forum, look for another thread similiar titled as this one.

[freddy090909]

I dont know which is the BiS opener. All I ever see is opinions. I wanna have facts as you say

Firebug's opener is the correct one assuming standard talents (em/pe/ef). You don't change anything with the opener except you refresh a fully buffed flame shock on the target after ascendance.

If you're running echo, use two unbuffed lava bursts at the start and put a fully buffed flame shock before you ascend.

[Deleted]

-15 Unleash Flame
- 4 Fire Elemental Totem
- 3 Lightning Bolt macroed to Int Potion (the cast time + travel time will be fine, you won't ninja pull)
0 Flame Shock
1 Lava Burst (and clear any Lava Surges)
2 Ascendance (macroed to EM and LvB)

LB/Int Potion macro

/use [nocombat] Draenic Intellect Potion
/cast Lightning Bolt

Total waste of time trying to get an EFx2 FS up early using EM. Different story using EotE.

Like Gistwiki said earlier, EM should be used before the first LvB not macroed with Ascendance.

I agree with anything else.

[Starsha]

I dont know which is the BiS opener. All I ever see is opinions. I wanna have facts as you say

I believe he is talking about this one: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ghlight=opener

[Firebug1975]

Like Gistwiki said earlier, EM should be used before the first LvB not macroed with Ascendance.

I agree with anything else.

Indeed, suppose I better make another macro.

[zezaway]

Indeed, suppose I better make another macro.

Please link that the ascendance macro with the lava burst!!

[Firebug1975]

Please link that the ascendance macro with the lava burst!!

#showtooltip Ascendance
/stopmacro [nocombat]
/cast [mod:alt] Spiritwalker's Grace
/cast Ascendance
/cast Lava Burst