Death Knight: why the only class who plays the lower dps spec at mythic level?

[Krazzorx]

Now, obviously the majority play unholy, but when you look at amount of parses, there's still a significant amount who play frost. Why is that so different for DKs compared to other classes?

Looking at warcraftlogs ATM, there are 383 frost DK parses compared to 12 BM Hunter and 1 survival. And this is pretty much across the board with classes pures who have an obviously worse spec. And afaik it's always been this way with dks. Both unholy and frost played at a high level. Why is that?

[nephzor]

Frost isnt that far behind necroblight, BoS makes UH much better than frost on ST fights but frost can still do decent damage much better than bm or survival hunter. Also some players just cant play BoS or they just dont like BoS or even UH.

The difference between bm or surv vs MM is huge.

[Coldvibes]

The faster your guild kills bosses, the better BoS becomes. If your guild is still killing bosses outside of 2-3 ring explosions, Frost isn't terrible, but if you are killing bosses within the first 2 ring usages UH BoS will give you much better mileage.

[Fenrkyr]

I don't care for the way unholy plays. I can't stand the pet, don't like lack of strike damage, the death by a thousand cuts, nor the theme of rot and disease. I started playing a DK when blood DPS was a thing and I still prefer the more physical specs. The current DW frost isn't my favorite, but its far better than unholy. Frankly I'd rather sit out on progression fights and play a spec I enjoy than hate every minute of raiding as unholy.

[Hellborne87]

I don't care for the way unholy plays. I can't stand the pet, don't like lack of strike damage, the death by a thousand cuts, nor the theme of rot and disease. I started playing a DK when blood DPS was a thing and I still prefer the more physical specs. The current DW frost isn't my favorite, but its far better than unholy. Frankly I'd rather sit out on progression fights and play a spec I enjoy than hate every minute of raiding as unholy.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 10/10.

[Skullbound]

I don't care for the way unholy plays. I can't stand the pet, don't like lack of strike damage, the death by a thousand cuts, nor the theme of rot and disease. I started playing a DK when blood DPS was a thing and I still prefer the more physical specs. The current DW frost isn't my favorite, but its far better than unholy. Frankly I'd rather sit out on progression fights and play a spec I enjoy than hate every minute of raiding as unholy.

Still unaware which spec will be most viable for Legion, so don't get your panties in a bunch. Frost feels good on Alpha(felt good) just hoping it's competitive with Unholy. I love both Unholy and Frost, and will play whichever is most viable. Also Unholy plays slightly different in Legion, especially with DA being a really heavy CD. Give it a shot when/if you get a beta invite this Thursday because you may like it.

[Chipskunk]

Now, obviously the majority play unholy, but when you look at amount of parses, there's still a significant amount who play frost. Why is that so different for DKs compared to other classes?

Looking at warcraftlogs ATM, there are 383 frost DK parses compared to 12 BM Hunter and 1 survival. And this is pretty much across the board with classes pures who have an obviously worse spec. And afaik it's always been this way with dks. Both unholy and frost played at a high level. Why is that?

maybe it is because people find frost/unholy fun to play and play well and blizz has done a decent job balancing them (at least making them close). Can't boost either too much or everyone else complains

[S7orm]

SV is the single worst spec by miles and BM is in reality a lot behind MM because having a pet as an active part of your damage can really knock your DPS down on certain fights.
UH and frost have a smaller DPS margin so if you are drunk or too dumb to manage cooldowns (or you just don't like UH) you can go frost and smash your fingers on whatever flashes

[DeusX]

My guild is 11/13 M, so you can guess we are not the kind of guys to do speed kills. BoS has a limited advantage ouside short kill times. Also, since on some fights I get asked to pop the ring on pull, it's a just a waste to BoS at 40 rp. Also, necroblight is not as fun as either BoS or Frost. Spending death runes on FeS just to extend NP looks just a bit shitty.
Also, I find it interesting to try to make the best out of Frost DW and just enjoy it.
Btw, I enjoy very much playing all 3 specs and I hate I can only choose 2 of them.

[kurama]

Well i play UH and some players in my guild play Frost, and they like that spec, and in some fights like iskar, kromrok, manoroth, they can do a pretty nice dmg. And unholy dps is based a lot on your trinkets and your last talent, so if you dont have UeH you´re not going to do a lot of dmg, the same if you like BoS and you don´t have the vial.

[Halliax]

Well i play UH and some players in my guild play Frost, and they like that spec, and in some fights like iskar, kromrok, manoroth, they can do a pretty nice dmg. And unholy dps is based a lot on your trinkets and your last talent, so if you dont have UeH you´re not going to do a lot of dmg, the same if you like BoS and you don´t have the vial.

Well, but even on those fights, you usually do more damage than then, right?

[Monteverdi]

I don't care for the way unholy plays. I can't stand the pet, don't like lack of strike damage, the death by a thousand cuts, nor the theme of rot and disease. I started playing a DK when blood DPS was a thing and I still prefer the more physical specs. The current DW frost isn't my favorite, but its far better than unholy. Frankly I'd rather sit out on progression fights and play a spec I enjoy than hate every minute of raiding as unholy.

This, so much. It's why I'm not excited about DK in Legion. We have Frost as a pure Dual-Wield spec, and I still long for the days of Blood DPS with Heart Strike and Hysteria, where you were a walking Death Machine with a big 2-hander.

[friedmudkipz]

Either they're screwing around on farm, are in a casual enough guild where they can get away with playing the inferior spec, or can't play unholy properly. Frost is just about close enough to unholy in damage that some people feel like they aren't really losing out by playing it, which is pretty rare. Other classes usually either have specs that are situationally better (like fire mage or fury warrior) or just complete shit in all scenarios (like SV hunter).

[kurama]

Well, but even on those fights, you usually do more damage than then, right?

yeah, but thats because i´m 739 and they´re like 731-733, but in single target i must say that another dk frost with my same ilvl can do a little bit more dps than me in single target.

[Justpassing]

Yeah it's unacceptable! What do these people think, this is some sort of a game?!

[SidFwuff]

Well, but even on those fights, you usually do more damage than then, right?

Under that reasoning, why bring a DK at all except for grip?

Take a Blood DK as a tank, and replace all the Frost/Unholy DKs.

[Halliax]

Under that reasoning, why bring a DK at all except for grip?

Take a Blood DK as a tank, and replace all the Frost/Unholy DKs.

Don´t get me wrong, Unholy DK is in a great situation this expansion, but if the grip wasnt necessary, and the raid leaders could swap theirs unholy DKs by mages(with same skill level) you can bet they would...
If you check my posts, isnt hard to perceive I´m a bitter frost DK, who changed to unholy, because my guild(and I) aren´t real good(finished progression on february only) and we need any extra DPS we can get...So, if you are on a hard situation(Mythic Fights) and you aren´t playing with the optimal spec, you´re holding your team back...I know that Frost is viable, but my guild needed the extra DPS granted by me changing to unholy...

[Coldvibes]

Either they're screwing around on farm, are in a casual enough guild where they can get away with playing the inferior spec, or can't play unholy properly. Frost is just about close enough to unholy in damage that some people feel like they aren't really losing out by playing it, which is pretty rare. Other classes usually either have specs that are situationally better (like fire mage or fury warrior) or just complete shit in all scenarios (like SV hunter).

Easier to get orange parses as frost bruh xd

[Deleted]

simple, the little rogue wanabe, anime dual wielding blood elves love frost too much to switch even if they let the guild down

[SidFwuff]

Don´t get me wrong, Unholy DK is in a great situation this expansion, but if the grip wasnt necessary, and the raid leaders could swap theirs unholy DKs by mages(with same skill level) you can bet they would...
If you check my posts, isnt hard to perceive I´m a bitter frost DK, who changed to unholy, because my guild(and I) aren´t real good(finished progression on february only) and we need any extra DPS we can get...So, if you are on a hard situation(Mythic Fights) and you aren´t playing with the optimal spec, you´re holding your team back...I know that Frost is viable, but my guild needed the extra DPS granted by me changing to unholy...

I haven't raided seriously since Wrath- I've only gone through Heroic/Normal SoO and Heroic HFC. Haven't bothered with Mythic.

That being said, my understanding is that it's as exactly others have said here: Unholy only pulls ahead 'significantly' under certain talents (such as breath) which has mandatory gear requirements. Even then, it's only when fights are shorter than normal.

I have a DK alt (who I took through H. HFC) so looked into it- glancing at parses, it doesn't look like it has changed much: In most cases, Frost DW and Unholy are neck in neck. For example;

Mythic Iskar at ~725 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Fury Warrior - 84,551.4 dps
Unholy - 77,713.3 dps
Frost - 76,627.9 dps


Mythic Fel Lord at ~725 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Retribution Paladin - 81,897.2 dps
Frost - 77,069.9 dps
Unholy - 76,605.3 dps

Mythic Xhul at ~731 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Windwalker Monk - 120,656.8 dps
Unholy - 106,328.0 dps
Frost - 100,924.0 dps

Mythic Soc at ~731 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Arms Warrior - 86,088 dps
Unholy - 77,799.9 dps
Frost - 76,437.1 dps

Mythic Tyrant at ~ 733 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Arms Warrior - 144,985.5
Unholy - 129,180.0 dps
Frost - 128,128.0 dps

Mythic Archimonde at ~740 iLvl (75 Percentile):
Unholy - 112,657.8 dps
Subtlety Rogue - 109,732.0 dps
Frost 107,270.3 dps

I've tried grabbing a variety of fights (some solo/cleave, some AoE at different item levels) and a lot of them... the difference between Frost and Unholy is nothing compared to some other melee classes.

Sure, Unholy is doing an extra 4% or something over Frost on Archie at 740 item level... but that's 5k dps.

If someone can perform at 85 percentile as Frost, and 70 percentile as Unholy... they'll be doing more damage as Frost than as Unholy.

At least, that's how I understand it.