When is it a DPS increase to replace T19

[Deleted]

Given the large number of min maxers on this forum and in general, im surprised this hasnt been discussed yet.

Currently I have 4PC T20 and 2PC T19 for the bonus the T19 pces are the mythic chest and back, so when is it okay to replace them, I raid mainly normal and Heroic, and might start mythic if i can increase my dps (just so you get an understanding of the ilvl loot ill be getting).

My armory is: worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/tarren-mill/bladedance

I cant sim cause I dont know what pieces to look for, thanks in advance

[Deix-EU]

Given the large number of min maxers on this forum and in general, im surprised this hasnt been discussed yet.

Currently I have 4PC T20 and 2PC T19 for the bonus the T19 pces are the mythic chest and back, so when is it okay to replace them, I raid mainly normal and Heroic, and might start mythic if i can increase my dps (just so you get an understanding of the ilvl loot ill be getting).

My armory is: worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/tarren-mill/bladedance

I cant sim cause I dont know what pieces to look for, thanks in advance

Because one will say "sim it". Unless you have TF, T20 will be superior typically.

[Deleted]

Because one will say "sim it". Unless you have TF, T20 will be superior typically.

So I have BOTH the 4 set bonus of T20 and the 2 Set bonus of T19. What I want to know is when can I replace T19 with other (non set) pieces.
thanks

[Svisalith]

It's a DPS upgrade to swap from tier 19 4p to tier 20 4p when your tier 20 is about 25-30ilvls higher (yes quite a lot)

2p19 isn't very important by comparison. As little as ~10-15ilvls or some better stats on those t19 pieces can be enough to get rid of the 2 piece 19 but it's worth noting that the extra fury gen can be nice for more consistently lining up meta with legendary shoulders at awkward killtimes or to smooth out RNG, i've talked to a few people that prefer using it even at a minor DPS downgrade for that.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

When it comes to replacing t19 with t20, just go by ilvl. Replace t19 with off set pieces if the upgrade is 15 ilvls or higher.

It's a DPS upgrade to swap from tier 19 4p to tier 20 4p when your tier 20 is about 25-30ilvls higher (yes quite a lot)

4p20, 2p19 isn't very important by comparison. As little as ~10-15ilvls or some better stats on those t19 pieces can be enough but it's worth noting that the extra fury gen can be nice for lining up meta with legendary shoulders

Ignore this nonsense completely.

[Svisalith]

Ignore this nonsense completely.

Not nonsense, i've done extensive research and you probably have not even tried to look at it if that's what you think of the idea. There's something to be said for questioning and debate rather than straight insults if somebody says something that you don't understand.

You can take it at a 0-10ilvl upgrade if you're running only 222 (depending on your gear, haste amount, amount of critical chaos relics etc) but for the highest DPS talents either way to perform better it needs to be +~25ilvl.

There is a reason that some of the top havoc logs in mythic and heroic are using t19, it's not because they didn't find equal ilvl tier 20 yet. That's easy to find, even T20H drops 10ilvls higher than T19M base.

If not from me then take it from the havoc discord and Zarania - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20758396028

T20 - Over nerfed
There’s a theme among t20 sets that make a single button more attractive to hit. This makes for a pretty boring set overall, which means it is all about the tuning. In the case of Havoc, on PTR it was probably too strong. However, after a 50%! nerf to both the 2 piece AND the 4 piece. That made the set a downgrade for many who were looking to upgrade from Mythic t19 to heroic t20, which was said to not be intended. Part of this appears to have been from the low haste sets people had in Nighthold and as they’re getting more haste from gear in ToS t20 is looking more promising. However, at the time of this writing the current top mythic Maiden kill has a DH using 4p t19. And before you say it’s super titanforged, one is 905 with a socket, one is 920, one is 915 with a socket, one is baseline 905 - so within the bounds of a typical set coming out of nighthold. 3 out of the 15 top on Mythic Goroth are also t19 - so people have had time to get t20 if they want it.

[Deleted]

Not nonsense, i've done extensive research and you probably have not even tried to look at it if that's what you think of the idea. There's something to be said for questioning and debate rather than straight insults if somebody says something that you don't understand.

You can take it at a 0-10ilvl upgrade if you're running only 222 (depending on your gear, haste amount, amount of critical chaos relics etc) but for the highest DPS talents either way to perform better it needs to be +~25ilvl.

There is a reason that some of the top havoc logs in mythic and heroic are using t19, it's not because they didn't find equal ilvl tier 20 yet. That's easy to find, even T20H drops 10ilvls higher than T19M base.

If not from me then take it from the havoc discord and Zarania [/url]

I was about to just do what this guy is doing cause of his post and gear, but then I notice he's using Cradle of Anguish and Sephuz.... any reason for this?

[Deix-EU]

Not nonsense, i've done extensive research and you probably have not even tried to look at it if that's what you think of the idea. There's something to be said for questioning and debate rather than straight insults if somebody says something that you don't understand.

You can take it at a 0-10ilvl upgrade if you're running only 222 (depending on your gear, haste amount, amount of critical chaos relics etc) but for the highest DPS talents either way to perform better it needs to be +~25ilvl.

There is a reason that some of the top havoc logs in mythic and heroic are using t19, it's not because they didn't find equal ilvl tier 20 yet. That's easy to find, even T20H drops 10ilvls higher than T19M base.

If not from me then take it from the havoc discord and Zarania - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20758396028

^This.

And, that's what made me stop the current content with DH. I'm no longer interested to play with a class they clearly don't masterize and we feel that it's already too much of a class, a burden for them. You can feel it pretty easily ... through their stupid words, their LIES (yeah lies, still now there is no discuss about the "great major changes" we have seen already).
Instead, preparing 7.3 and next xpac with other class.

[Deleted]

2cents on the topic - T19 4p is way too strong if you are one of those luckers who have decently high ilvl Critical Chaos Relics.
I personally am rocking with 56% crit and with + 8% from T19 there is no way I would drop that. The QoL is way too big and it boost my main dps ability by a metric fkton. My eyes just don't see it how T20 can beat T19 - 2 buff to ability that is used only once every ~8 seconds vs 1 buff to spammable ability(and top damaging one) and a resources buff.

[chooi]

But "sim it" is the only viable answer. So, helping to help yourself:

[enders9]

It's a DPS upgrade to swap from tier 19 4p to tier 20 4p when your tier 20 is about 25-30ilvls higher (yes quite a lot)

2p19 isn't very important by comparison. As little as ~10-15ilvls or some better stats on those t19 pieces can be enough to get rid of the 2 piece 19 but it's worth noting that the extra fury gen can be nice for more consistently lining up meta with legendary shoulders at awkward killtimes or to smooth out RNG, i've talked to a few people that prefer using it even at a minor DPS downgrade for that.

When I switched from t19 to t20 I simmed 40-50k higher and I only had one piece that was a 25 ilvl increase. The other three pieces were 0 - 10 ilvl upgrades.

[Svisalith]

When I switched from t19 to t20 I simmed 40-50k higher and I only had one piece that was a 25 ilvl increase. The other three pieces were 0 - 10 ilvl upgrades.

Thats from the ilevel increase and because you almost certainly simmed 222 with both sets - maybe better stats too, that still seems quite high.

222 is a top performer in t20 but very bad in t19 so try others like 1111311. Those talents w/ t19 sim about 70k higher than 222+t20 on my char at the same ilevel when using optimal food, pots and best APL's for both (111 needs a tweak to disable all casts of throw glaive, it's casting them at the wrong time by default and losing ~15k dps)

The ~25 ilvls are needed to overcome that 70k. If you use the wrong talents you won't have that 70k in the first place so the capabilities of your character are not actually increasing, you just weren't accessing the potential damage before.