after 300+ arena matches

[hi2u]

So I copied my rogue on to the ptr oh some 2 weeks ago, and my 2s partner a shadowpreist started queuing for matches. We have been desperately working on our comp and strats against reasonable team comps. Which is relatively hard considering 4 out of 5 times we enter it’s against ret+1. Lol I appreciate the fact that every ret pally in wow is on the ptr so I’m not overly concerned about it. I think the last time I saw a ret pally live was session 2. Even if all of the pallies in my battle group go ret they certainly won’t have the gear to support it. I do have a few questions for you thought maybe you guys could help me out.
One on one I really don’t have much of a problem with you guys, full cds to full cds. And I’m starting to get your weaknesses, one of my questions is do your main nukes require a weapon. Sometimes ill disarm you and I’ll get hit with maybe a judgment. But I’m not quite sure if it was disabling or you nuked my cos.
When would be the best time to cloak? I have been cloaking the second you guys get out of my stun lock, to avoid the hammer nuke, but I’ve been contemplating saving it and gouge vanishing instead.
Do wings mean you can still bubble?
Does resilience mitigate any of your damage?
Do silences affect all of your magic based nukes or do you have strictly melee attacks I should watch out for?
I actually find it quite fun to fight pallies because it makes me really have to plan out each move, and try to kite a reaction from the pally. I’ll give an example of my opener and attack plan for a pally if you see any glaring mistakes please let me know, please note that if the pally bubbles or trinkets my reaction tend to be different, like cloak evade runaway lol.
Ok so I open with a cheap shot
Sinister strike, sinister strike
Kidney shot
Killing spree
Disarm
Cloak
At this point they are either dead or popped a panic bubble and I vanish rinse and repeat. This seems to be pretty effective against you guys but because my cool downs aren’t prepable I’m looking for a way to save some of my cds. Any help or comments would be appreciated

[Khody]

Yes you can use wings and bubble.

Don't kick until you see them casting for sure. Which will be very very rare with Art of War.

Resilience affects us just as much as everyone else if not a little more.

[hi2u]

well my kick is a 2 second silence but true i dont kick untill i see them casting a heal.

[Khody]

If they're casting mid combat at all ever, it will be for 1 second or less so you have to be quick with kick.

[Jubosh]

while disarmed we can't use Crusader strike or divine storm, but we can use all the other abilities such has judge hammer repentace consecrate/heals, while silenced we can use Crusader strike but nothing else no sure on DS yet have to test it, try to CoS the hammer of Justice save trinket for repents, use lots of bleed/lockdown and try to get the jump on em run if you have to

[Garrum]

You should have to blow all of your cooldowns to have a chance against us. If you want easy mode, go back to full subtlety and vanish 37 times every fight you pansy.

Just know that a good pally will freedom out of your KS, leaving both bubble and trinket for later use, and theres a good chance that you will have a dot on you at all times, forcing you to cloak if you want to try and gouge restealth.

[hi2u]

while disarmed we can't use Crusader strike or divine storm, but we can use all the other abilities such has judge hammer repentace consecrate/heals, while silenced we can use Crusader strike but nothing else no sure on DS yet have to test it, try to CoS the hammer of Justice save trinket for repents, use lots of bleed/lockdown and try to get the jump on em run if you have to

awsome i apreciate that. thank you very much

You should have to blow all of your cooldowns to have a chance against us. If you want easy mode, go back to full subtlety and vanish 37 times every fight you pansy.

wow buddy, grudge much.

[mightus]

Evasion when HoJ isn't up and CoS when it is up. When the pally bubbles go into stealth and eat somewhere if he is healing or bandage. If he tries to attack you sprint and vanish.

[hi2u]

Evasion when HoJ isn't up and CoS when it is up. When the pally bubbles go into stealth and eat somewhere if he is healing or bandage. If he tries to attack you sprint and vanish.

Yep thats pretty much what i do. I do my best to keep pallies controled as much as possible. I am having a hard time getting a sap off on them though is that spec or lag? And I'm not talking about in a consecrate.

[Nubs]

I’ll give an example of my opener and attack plan for a pally if you see any glaring mistakes please let me know, please note that if the pally bubbles or trinkets my reaction tend to be different, like cloak evade runaway lol.
Ok so I open with a cheap shot
Sinister strike, sinister strike
Kidney shot
Killing spree
Disarm
Cloak
At this point they are either dead or popped a panic bubble and I vanish rinse and repeat. This seems to be pretty effective against you guys but because my cool downs aren’t prepable I’m looking for a way to save some of my cds. Any help or comments would be appreciated

Wow, OP much? This probably the first post where a rogue doesn't even try to hide the blatant OP'ness of his class.

"LOL guys, I stun rotate and kill a person in plate. I'm so good."

Seriously, think before you post. In the future, if people say rogues take skill and/or say rogues aren't good, I will refer to this post.

[hi2u]

Wow, OP much? This probably the first post where a rogue doesn't even try to hide the blatant OP'ness of his class.

"LOL guys, I stun rotate and kill a person in plate. I'm so good."

Seriously, think before you post. In the future, if people say rogues take skill and/or say rogues aren't good, I will refer to this post.

eh w/e its the truth I'm not trying to hide anything, and specing full combat does have quite a few disadvantages. I was just asking for some help in understanding the new changes to ret. I never once said you where OP just challenging. I could very easly list the times either myself or my partner got insta gibbed by a pally. I am just floored by the amount of hate pallies have for everyone.

[Whitcher]

eh w/e its the truth I'm not trying to hide anything, and specing full combat does have quite a few disadvantages. I was just asking for some help in understanding the new changes to ret. I never once said you where OP just challenging. I could very easly list the times either myself or my partner got insta gibbed by a pally. I am just floored by the amount of hate pallies have for everyone.

Ret pallys generally have a lot of hate for everyone because in any situation, PvP or PvE, they have to prove themselves. Nobody has respect for a ret pally because they have never really been a big player in anything. Pre-BC they were pathetic, BC they are still pretty pathetic (only thing that makes them ok is gear), in wrath it seems like they'll be wtf powerful at the start but the talents and abilities will lose than strength and luster at the end of the grind.

[hi2u]

........i was around when rogues couldnt kill pallies to save thier life. I havn't personally ever thought pallies had to prove themselves.
But i will say some of you are very helpfull and i greatly apreciate it. thanks

[skaarrj]

Yes you can use wings and bubble.

Don't kick until you see them casting for sure. Which will be very very rare with Art of War.

Resilience affects us just as much as everyone else if not a little more.

No, just a little less, thanks to Avenging Wrath bypassing 25% of all defenses it seems. If I'm reading it right.

[Melanctha]

Evasion when HoJ isn't up and CoS when it is up. When the pally bubbles go into stealth and eat somewhere if he is healing or bandage.  If he tries to attack you sprint and vanish.

Dont ever leave a pally alone
He will heal to full health in 1-2 heals, and it only takes a few seconds of drinking for full mana.

By all means restealth, but keep near and watch him.

I play ret, and 1v1, you need to seriously be on your toes. dont lend a pally any slack.

You need to be relentless. any silences are good as they lock out alot of our key abilities, unlikes stuns, which we have multiple ways out of.

and if you can, try to force a paly to bubble as early as possible. shock tactics

[Deleted]

I didn't read all the posts here, and I play prot and holy paladins, but I'll still answer here

Sometimes ill disarm you and I’ll get hit with maybe a judgment. But I’m not quite sure if it was disabling or you nuked my cos.

Judgements don't require a weapon. They're just like any other classes' spells, really. Divine storm and crusader strike do require weapon, though.

When would be the best time to cloak? I have been cloaking the second you guys get out of my stun lock, to avoid the hammer nuke, but I’ve been contemplating saving it and gouge vanishing instead.

I don't play rogues myself, but..Well, couldn't you f.ex. disarm the paladin and pop cloak at the same time? You wouldn't get hit by the judgement and you could get a few shots in without the paladin being able to do much back.

Do wings mean you can still bubble?

Indeed. Expect lots of paladins popping wings and bubble at the same time so they can nuke you for a while without you being able to hit back.

Do silences affect all of your magic based nukes or do you have strictly melee attacks I should watch out for?

Silence locks out all holy spells, which apparently even Hammer Of Justice is. Atleast whenever I get silenced I can't use even HoJ. So I assume ret paladins won't be able to use divine storm or more or less anything while silenced.

I actually find it quite fun to fight pallies because it makes me really have to plan out each move

Congratulations, you're not one of the masses that whine because rogues are no longer so OP

and try to kite a reaction from the pally. I’ll give an example of my opener and attack plan for a pally if you see any glaring mistakes please let me know, please note that if the pally bubbles or trinkets my reaction tend to be different, like cloak evade runaway lol.
Ok so I open with a cheap shot
Sinister strike, sinister strike
Kidney shot
Killing spree
Disarm
Cloak
At this point they are either dead or popped a panic bubble and I vanish rinse and repeat. This seems to be pretty effective against you guys but because my cool downs aren’t prepable I’m looking for a way to save some of my cds. Any help or comments would be appreciated

Can't really say much here, unfortunately. My way of surviving against a rogue on my holy paladin is to spam consecration, holy shock and judgement and popping bubble when I need healing :P Not much else I can do, really And since I assume you're talking about arena or duels sapping the other guy probably doesn't really help. In BGs you can find lots of those hasty players who instantly pop their trinket if they get sapped, and then they're easy meat as their trinket is on cooldown. I've learned to just wait until the sap goes away, it does me no harm anyway.

[hi2u]

Hmmm. from my experience fighting pallys i have found that the actual contact fight time i have with the pally is so quick that i would lose any and all usefullness of a nonmitigated bleed, if kiting is possible do to dispells and such i might garrote. but considering that in a fight with someone able to that much burst would i really want to affectivly disable gouge and blind for an extra 2000 damage over 10 seconds?

[hi2u]

You could open garrote with offhand as (whatever the stacking damage poison is) and crippling; effectively making you a hunter's manashot scorpion for your own slow. that forces hof. in the meantime, you've built some combos, run like mad till hof is off or have your lock (you did say lock partner, right?) felpuppy devour it off, and then deadly throw.

from there, i don't know, but it certainly bought your warlock a lot of room to blow the palli up while his fears keep the paladin's add busy...

team player of the month?

I hereby patent this plan, in addition to all my other plans. anyone that creates or uses this team plan/combo owes me 500 euros.

Shenanigans i say, shenanigans!!!!!!!

[Dinamic]

in wrath it seems like they'll be wtf powerful at the start but the talents and abilities will lose than strength and luster at the end of the grind.

Why is it that every ret paladin has bought into the idea that their abilities will get worse for no reason? Ret is going to scale like any melee class now. Crazy once you're geared. Maybe that's the reason you slowed down a bit at 80?

[Khody]

No, just a little less, thanks to Avenging Wrath bypassing 25% of all defenses it seems. If I'm reading it right.

Couldn't you say that about anyone with a COOLDOWN up?