WotLK Beta - Build 9138

[Snapshot084]

The amount of Holy Pallies who didn't see these changes coming is shocking.

[Retri]

i play since 2 years a retri pala and i play the beta ... and blizz nerf the pala to much..

[stupid11]

Paladins got hit with a Titan's Grip dual-wielding Nerf hammer, the other hybrids were slightly nerfed, the other classes got buffed, and warlocks got sweet lovin'. Everything is back to where it was preBC.

Lol? 5% damage is "sweet lovin'"? Are you retarded? Warlocks will still get beat by Ret, Hunters, Rogues, Arms Warriors, probably Fury Warriors now, Boomkins, and *possibly* Mages.

[ragingsoul]

I made my main character a Palatank, BT gear pre patch 3.0, and I don't really like all those changes, nerfing everything in the class. But I have some perspective over it, since it's not the only class I play.

Now, I also have a resto druid, and I play arena with it. let me tell you, it's not fun at all, I have 3 brutal pieces, 450 ress, more than 11k hp as a healer, and I'm getting killed in about 4 global cd.. it's avenging wrath, stun, crit from judgment with 40% more dmg and 50% by passing any dmg reduction, 1 white dmg or someone esle to crit me (warrior that charge), then >35%, so with talents, it's a 83% chance that they crit me with hammer, then <20% and execute from his warrior partner.

all that, even if I trinket the first stun since the warrior is charging me right after the pala. I'm dead in 6 sec, with resli caped.. if you don't call that OP.. I don't know what is.

On matches that last a bit longer, make it 3 min (that's already 2 avenging wrath by the way), when I die, I see paladins FULL hp AND MANA, when me, or a mage, or priest, or ANY OTHER CLASS with mana that tried to burst, and can still heal are nearly oom. I mean, bursting is one thing, but when you can still bubble, have good heals and you are still 100% with mana, that's crazy OP.

I haven't played beta, so I don't know if paladins are ok at lvl 80, but right now, all the classes with lvl 80 talents are OP anyway.

about the "bleed" that overwite the first one.. humm, have you guys EVER played another class, like a mage maybe? it's exacly the same thing, so what's the fucking big deal??? yeah, it's not perfect and it shouldn't be.

Now I see warrior going prot with dps gear, paladin going ret with holy gear, which makes endless mana + CC+ burst... I was waiting for a nerf PLAYING A PALADIN AS MY MAIN CHARACTER. I'm just mad a the changes they made for holy and prot in the process.

[Balls]

Level 80, Premade char. 2654 AP unbuffed.

The one Critting was Judgement of Command.

WHAT THE FUCK?

I do that with 2200 AP on live right now at 70. No wings. Holy fuck they destroyed Retardin.

[TheOniwaban]

Im lovin' it!

mmm Delicious.
GG blizz.

[Golem]

Oh how so many of you should not be allowed to post on forums.

Just wanted to post some info regarding the JotW nerf, i play a paladin and realize our burst needed fixing however here is something you may want to take into account.

The Problem:
The issue with the Nerf is that the judgements of the wise change has completely and utterly killed any hope of ret pve. ever. before you jump on me for crying its the end of the world let me explain. at level 80 we run with base mana (O int on our gear) by nerfing JotW to 15% we can no longer use our dps abilities in PvE. here are some number explaining what will happen

The Mana Usage:
CS: 8%mana 6sec CD
DS: 12% mana 10sec CD
Judgement 5% mana 8sec CD
totaling about 25%mana usage ever 8seconds. In a 1 minute period we will use 189.5% of our mana

Mana Returned:
JotW 15% every 8sec
Replenishment .25% every sec
Divine Plea 25%of mana over 15seconds
this will result in a 1 minute period where ret regains 145%of its mana.

The Results:
Ret will have used 90% of its mana 2minutes into the fight, 2minutes and 12seconds in be completely oom, this class already in the middle of the damage meters have been completely destroyed by this nerf it would be WAY to logical to just bump JotW to 25% so they could carry off there normal dps rotation and leave there gimpy mana pool for 3-4 heals? i guess so, on top of this we had not only our pvp seal nerfed but our pve seal. why would they nerf SoM/SoB in pvp it would result in no burst damage due to the nature of the seal. Due to the complete carelessness and heavy handedness of this nerf this spec has been removed from pve and possibly pvp due to 2 mana burns leaving them oom in wrath.

If you had any idea of what you just posted you would realize that you just proved that by using only these DPS spells and not adding in consecration or heals you will have very high mana sustainability. First off you don't go through 189.5% mana/min you need to add in GCDs and if you have them hasted down to 1s (most possible) the amount of spells that you calculated casting would add in over 20s of GCD. Now you are going through 189.5% of BASE mana roughly every minute and twenty seconds, but you regen 145% of TOTAL mana every minute. Now we all know retadins dont stack int so it will roughly equal regenning about 145%-155% of your BASE mana/minute depending on how much int you do actually stack.
Thus in a 4 minute fight:
4min/1min20s=3 3*189.5= 568.5% = Total mana usage
4min/1min =4 4*145 = 580.0% = Total mana regen

You regen more mana than you use like it says in the post (We think you can go almost indefinetely on mana by using Divine Storm, Crusader Strike and a Seal / Judgement. If you want to add things to that, Consecration, Hammer or a heal perhaps, your mana will start to dip, but Divine Plea should make up for that.)

If you weren't just here to QQ you might try and think of a way to increase your mana regen if you want to add in the other spells like adding some intel to your gear like other mana based DPSers have to do.

Also blizz posted that once they "fixed" ret DPS they are going to rework Holy DPS, you will be buffed healadins.

Prot spec I'm sorry you got nerfed but in all honesty does any tank have trouble holding aggro on players that are similarly geared after patch 3.0, Blizz almost completely did away with threat watching (Like they posted) except for the few highest DPSers and if they know how to DPS that well then they should know how to use their aggro reducing ability.

P.S. That Pally tears cartoon is priceless

[Sk8Rico]

Meh, I saw it coming. But, the joy of driving a resto drood while i was in blues... was worth it. I guess thanks for the week of Awesomeness, looks like i'll have to Respec, and press 1,2 over and over again. The joy of standing in the back of a raid... while everyone else looks awesome. Paladins....ugh ???


Might I add i was full mana and full HP at the end of the fight >.<

[Senses]

As expected Blizzard wants to see 0 Ret pallys on the server. Blizzard: "IF UR RET U SUXX LULZ!!!"

[DPB]

As expected Blizzard wants to see 0 Ret pallys on the server. Blizzard: "IF UR RET U SUXX LULZ!!!"

Yep, everyone will be back to prot or holy as soon as this goes live, sad to see really. I honestly don't know what their thinking 17 pally nerfs in one patch even blizz should c that as a bit excessive.
Oh well, live and learn i guess ..
The only thing that sucks is I spent the last couple monthes building a pretty good ret set, and now it's gonna be worthless again.

[Lonan]

Ret Pladins did need a nerf, it is true.. everyone can see it. This wasn't a case of the QQ winning, it was a case of everyone looking at the situation and going "OMG ret is OP!" With the exception pf a very few shameless and deluded retadins I know every single one knew they were enjoying a wave that was going to crash and return to normalcy at some point. It is true that this may be too much, but that is Blizz's MO lately. They Buff good, nerf hard and repeat untill they are about right. They did it with Warriors of all specs (I remember not to long ago Prot Warriors were out DPSing Arms and Fury, we got nerfed then bufffed and then leveled out.), they've done it with shaman, too. Look at it from Blizzards point of view for a second, making changes like this is the easiest and quickest way to get a lot of data, and they will know if they went too far really soon and rescind a little bit. They've done it over and over in the development of WotLK.

The changes that effect Holy and Prot DPS are unfortunate but notice that Ghostcrawler did say they were prepared to buff Holy and Prot if need be. That means the are AWARE of the concerns with the changes they are making and are paying attention. I don't forsee these changes being permanent, they will be tweaked and changed untill things are about right. Untill Ret paladins are within 5% of every other DPS class and thus viable. My wild ass guess from the raids and PvP I've done lately is that Ret is much more that 12% or so better than anyone else of equal gear. That is too much,

So take your QQ and go else where. Time for the development process to work on you guys. Blizz of today is different from Blizz of TBC. It has been shown again and again with their transperancy, speed and candor in changes. They have 11 million paying subscribers to make happy enough to keep playing in the face of competition. They are not out for you mister Retadin, they are out for making everyone as close to happy as possible, give em some damn time and see how it ends up. Throwing a 2 year olds temper tantrum over one very experimental round of nerfs is idiotic and does not help your case. Work with them not against them.

[elduche]

Well... My paladin has always been my favorite character.. but now that this is coming...

Honestly I don't see myself playing wotlk.

making my favorite character useless in the role that I've always played him in is a terrible way to do business.

wtg blizz, you just lost a paying customer.

LoL deal with it same thing happened to feral druids back in the day and you cant deny you were a little OP.
Feral was worthless in Arena for over 4 seasons. Deal with the nurf play the class you like and move on. As the above poster states Bliz is gathering data and you need to give it time if this nurf is enough to make you quit wow then honestly I am not even sure how you made it to 70 in the first place.

[Vrachara]

Guys, relax. If these changes are too much, they'll buff you to decency again.

I'm not sure on Holy... never had a healer as main, tried to grind a few times while I was specced resto with my druid though, it sucked. If you think you need a buff over these changes, ok, go for it, I won't comment.

But protection paladin DPS in raids is just insane. Now, I have no perspective over level 80, so excuse my comment if it drastically changes then, but right now I tend to see a protection paladin near the top of the meters. Sorry, but that's wrong, you're supposed to be below the DPS (and these aren't just crap players who don't know what to do with their class) just like any other tank. And don't think I'm talking about rogues being lower than a protection paladin on MH waves, it's not about the AoE capability.

On the topic of retri nerf, which seems to be the hot topic, sorry to say, according to what I've seen at 70 (again, no perspective over 80; if it was bound to change through something, disregard my comment, but I've seen a lot of people saying they keep it up then), it's really nuts. Our retri pala, a good player at that is on top of DPS every single fight. Now, he's a good player and I know he can get a lot out of his class, but the margin by which he's leaving other DPS behind is a bit too much.

Your mana did need addressing. But with all the testing, it seems Blizzard swinged the nerf bat too hard again. Don't get depressed over it, they do it all the time. From what I've seen, they're learning faster now and fixing stuff much faster than they used to. If it's not done by Wrath, you're more than likely to see it done in a patch that'll be out before you reach 80.

Take a breather, sit back and enjoy the game. If you're rerolling due to nerfs, sorry to say, but that's quite sad, you should try playing a class you like, not a class that's best at something. And if you quit over them... well remember to send a gift basket to whoever was responsible for these changes

[Beenieshaman]

palys are crying lol, why?
before the new talents came out paly was just strong but mana problems so now you guys are just to strong now
so dont see why the nerf is a problem maybe should only have paladins in the game and take out locks, mage, rogue etc

anyway those with paladins in 2weeks will stop crying

[Archaic]

Love the changes for warlocks.. A ncie boost will be nice to try it out. cool

[nosfero]

TO

THE

GROUND PALADINS..

They gave u some "power" and u thought u could pvp.. I LOLD! Back to ur caves now

[Bonkbonk100]

<Pic of guy drinking Pally tears>
Im lovin' it!

Seriously, that picture made me thirsty now.

[Tektik]

First of all, I agree the ret paladins were made to be quite overpowered with the patch. I went from needing a healer and a rogue to take on an MS warrior to being able to solo a well-geared one IF I used all of my cooldowns. It bugged me to see fresh level 70 retadins almost beating me in BGs, when I had worked so hard for the gear I was using, and they had their S0.

Paladins were the hardest class to level, a combination of bad damage output and being mana starved. To those of you who say "but you can heal! That's a clear advantage over strict melee classes!" BITE ME! Like it's actually hard to level First Aid or buy food, Healing myself takes mana, i.e. I have to drink in order to replenish that mana, and if I heal during combat, then I'm OOM even faster, thus being less productive than using the mana to deal damage. With these nerfs, paladins will be EVEN HARDER to level from 70 to 80, and not only that, for those of us who DON'T play on a carebear server, we won't be able to hold our own in pvp. So, good f-ing game on giving paladins a clear disadvantage in Wrath, should these changes become live, as we will be the last class to reach 80 with more effort than anyone else.

Addressing the mana situation: yes, having infinite mana totally defeats the purpose of a mana bar. BUT with all of the mana regen buffs that can occur in a raid (Totems, Spriests, JotW, etc.) mana should not be a huge problem, people spend talent points and use certain abilities in order to maintain sustainability. If your DPS rotation includes consecration, THEN you should be mana starved, because that move isn't a direct, single-target, offensive ability, meant more for, the obvious, AoE situations.

We are holy swordsmen wielding giant two-handed weapons, wearing thick armor, and delivering justice through divine power, given to us by a higher power. We are a preserver, a protector, someone who does not "go down" very easily.

As hard as I have worked, in the past, to even be noticeable in PvP, I think that paladins should be a good tool to force other classes to actually learn how to play their builds in accordance with WHO they are fighting. I fight plenty of rogues who try to fight me, a plate wearer, as a melee only leather wearer, in a one-on-one thinking that by just using evasion, they should win. WRONG. They are melee with lots of stuns, CCs, and other cooldowns, USE THEM! Against a good rogue, or other class, the only difference between us would be my OP burst damage, which has clearly been nerfed, and too hard I say.

Thanks for the four weeks of fun Blizzard! I will try to "enjoy" raiding as a holy paladin, just like you've forced us to do since the beginning of time. And on a side note, I cannot wait to see how crazy and silly the new raiding system will be!

[Sk8Rico]

We are holy swordsmen wielding giant two-handed weapons, wearing thick armor, and delivering justice through divine power, given to us by a higher power. We are a preserver, a protector, someone who does not "go down" very easily.

Amen.

New motto 8)