Originally Posted by
tvveeder
As for what you are talking about with the best closer I beg to differ... I fail to see how it's any better than charge, intercept, or pounce. You say... well you can just death grip then CoI someone and they are wrecked... but the problem is you don't think about what other classes have to counter.
Death grip a mage, CoI, most likely he will have blink up, he blinks away, slows you, and you are fucked.
Death grip a lock, CoI and most likely he will have Death Coil up so he DC's you and then casts a fear and unless you're frost you are fucked.
Death grip a priest, CoI him and most likely he will bubble then psychic scream and unless you can break fear you are fucked.
Death grip a hunter, CoI him and there are a few scenarios...
- BM hunter will cast beastial wrath, hit you with concussive shot, and kite you to death.
- Survival will wing clip you, disengage to get far away, then nuke you and concussive shot kite you to death.
- Marksman hunter will scatter shot you, disengage, concussive shot and kite you.
The only class I can think of that is ranged and doesn't have a mechanic to break CoI, slow/kite a DK, or anything to that effect is elemental shaman... but they are struggling in PvP right now anyways and seriously need some work.
Now you talk about CoI after death grip, when really if you're up against a caster you want to death grip, strangulate, then CoI (unless you have chillblains then you can use IT just as well) but you had better hope you can kill that squishy in less than 4 seconds because as soon as the silence is up guess what happens... read above and that is what will happen. So who wants to complain about DK closers now? Now not only does it suck that most every class has a mechanic to get out of it... but also it can be dispelled if I'm not mistaken. If I'm wrong then correct me but I'm pretty sure it can be dispelled.
Now as for defensive capabilities. Well lets just break it down.
Icebound fortitude - lasts for 12 seconds, reduces damage by 15% (unless you are wearing tank gear, and that's not a huge number) and you are immune to stuns. The only people who should complain about this is rogues because of stun locking, the damage reduction is a joke and anyone who says this is overpowered needs to refer to paladins and their shields.
Anti Magic Shield - lasts for 5 seconds... let me repeat that... FIVE SECONDS. It negates most magic damage and turns it into RP. With a glyph it can last 7 seconds. If you time that right that will effect 2 castable spells tops and about 3 or 4 instant cast spells. Wow that is so overpowered. Once again I say anyone who wants to complain about this can refer to paladins and their shields.
Anti Magic Zone - has to be picked up through talents and to be honest if casters can't come up with a way to avoid this then you just don't understand the meaning of the word strategy and shouldn't PvP in the first place. It's a stationary shield! If the throws it up guess what... don't stay near him, don't attack him while in it... focus elsewhere. Once again... pally, shield, refer.
The only thing I will say that Dk's do excel in and possibly needs to be normalized is their survivability. The only thing I can say that REALLY needs it though is death strike. If you are spec'ed a certain way a well placed DS crit can just about full heal you even with low health. Rune tap is a talent, and to make it any good you have to pour 4 points into it and glyph it. So I will say that is fine as is. Vampiric blood is a talent and that's no different than last stand for warriors so there's no reason for that to be nerfed. Mark of blood was already nerfed so that doesn't matter. Death pact requires rezzing a ghoul and sacrificing it and it's being changed in the patch to where it can't crit heal you (which I do agree with). I've broken things down between the different classes so many times it's not funny and really it's unnecessary because if you think DK's have better/more mechanics to make them excel at PvP than every other class you need to stop the QQ and quit the game because you don't know all the mechanics of the other classes and you can't analyze a class to pick out it's weaknesses and exploit them.
You want me to break down a DK's weaknesses? I'll do it right here just to prove a point.
Outside of melee range they are garbage.
If you force them to burn their CD's they are very susceptible.
If you can slow them and kite them they have very little to counter with.
If you have fears use them to your advantage. If they have Lichborne yes they will be able to break it... but it's a 3 minute CD so they won't have it up at all times.
Last I have a 4 letter word that I will reiterate... KITE!
And as for what z8472 said he is exactly right. Warriors and rogues have counters for us that will destroy us if they use them right. Both have disarm, and rogues can stun lock. If you try to stun and they have IBF up you can either CoS and Vanish or CoS and sprint away out of reach and then stealth, rinse, and repeat stun lock. Ret Pallies have just as much survivability as DK's do with their instant cast FoL's and shields, so they can go toe for toe. Prot pallies should demolish DK's because they are overpowered and all their damage is holy so it's not mitigated by armor anyway (not to mention most DK abilities will either have trouble hitting them or be mitigated a lot by armor).
Do you know what you are talking about? Chillblains is rank 7 in 3.1... I highly doubt you will see any unholy or blood builds with it because they wont waste 30 points in frost just to get it.
QFT. On PTR they made certain changes and didn't think about the numbers I believe. PS critting for 6-7k unbuffed and DS critting for 5-6k unbuffed is too much. That will get changed big time. Also they buffed SS a little too much on PTR but that will get changed as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see DS turn out to be a totally new mechanic.