Rogue FAQ! (Needs more questions) (Up to Patch 3.2)

[bbr]

In an effort to compile useful info into a single thread, in a short simple to read manner I'd like to gather some of the more frequently asked questions.

If you got any suggestions to add to this, list em below.

--

Q: What's the ArPen Cap?

100%, or 12.31 * 100 = 1231 Armor Penetration Rating.
Less if you have talents that boost this obviously.

Be aware that having both of these active:
* http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40256 (612) and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45931 (665)
Is already more than the cap, especially since you'll likely already have a decent number of ArPen rating on your gear.
So it is highly discouraged to use both at the same time.


Q: What's my HitCap?

Assuming you have 5/5 precision:
* To cap specials (yellow attacks) you need 99 hit rating. Shouldn't be too hard to reach that.
* To cap poison attacks 315 hit rating. Poison is considered a spell and affected by precision as of 3.0.1
* To cap poison attacks, while improved Faery fire or misery(shadow priest) are active, you'll need only 237 hit rating.
* To cap white attacks you need 722 hit rating. Don't bother with that though.
* If you have a Draenei in your group, you'll need 33 rating less.

If you don't have 5/5 precision or simply less of it:
~32.78 hit rating equals 1% hit
~65.56 hit rating equals 2% hit
~98.34 hit rating equals 3% hit
~131.12 hit rating equals 4% hit
~163.9 hit rating equals 5% hit

Once you reach your poison hit cap the value of hit rating will decrease substantially (provides you with much less dps increase per point), thus, once you reach the poison cap it's recommended you try to work on the expertise cap and/or start stacking agility or ArPen.


Q: What's the expertise Cap?

~32.78 expertise rating equals 4 expertise = 1% less dodge, parry, and block on your target. So 1% increase to hit your target from behind, 3% increase from the front.

Bosses are presumed to have 6.5% dodge, which means you need 26 expertise, or 214 expertise rating.
If you have Weapon expertise 2/2 you need 16 expertise, or 132 expertise rating.
If you're a human(or dwarf) wielding a sword(or mace) or Orc(with axes) then you only need 13 = 107 rating


Q: What gems should I use?

Epic ones obviously. Or the Jewelcrafting ones if you have access to those.

Alternatively, The difference between 20 Agi, 40 AP, or 20 ArPen are "very" marginal.
Personally I'd suggest the following:
Meta: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41398
Red sockets: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40112
Yellow sockets: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40147
Blue sockets: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49110 : only one though, you can usually just flood the rest of your gear with red gems.


Q: What does AEP/EP/MAEP mean?

Agility Equivalence Points and alike. Basically it is a way to compare other stats to 1 point of agility as a base.
For example 1 Agi = 1.5 hit = 1.75 crit = 2 AP (Those values are just an example, for now)


Q: What weapons are best for Mutilate?

Two big juicy high dps daggers, a slow (1.7-1.8 speed) for mainhand, and a fast (1.3-1.5 speed) one for offhand.


Q: What weapons are best for Combat?

That really varies what the best weapons in the current patch are. For 3.1 that was Mainhand fist + offhand dagger.
For 3.2 it's 2 axes (MH slow, OH fast obviously), nobody knows yet what 3.3 will bring but the MH slow OH fast will always remain true.


Q: What is better for DPS, combat or mutilate? Or Honor among thieves?

This is a FAQ, not a theorycrafting guide.
And it really depends on your playstyle.

HaT got nerfed in 3.2 so it's worthless now.
Combat is king, but only marginally ahead of mutilate at the time of writing this.
Mutilate isn't bad, and blizzard has intentions of making it more prominent. As they want rogues to be a primarily "dagger wielding class"


Q: What stats are beneficial to me?

Get: Agility and Attack power.
Avoid: Spirit and Strength (Strength only gives half the AP value per point)

Get: Crit, Hit, Haste, Expertise, ArPen rating.
Avoid: Spell power, Mana regen, armor, block, dodge, parry rating.

Stamina is never bad, but it doesn't help your DPS either.


Q: Why can't I use some abilities when I'm not standing behind my enemy?

Some abilities require you to be in front (gouge) while some require you to be behind (backstab, ambush) your target. You can't really go "lol backstab in your face". Front and back are actually two 180 degree circles, but don't take those as 100% accurate all the time. If you want to backstab something, get behind the target.

This also means combat spec (which doesn't rely on backstab) is quite good for leveling.
Mutilate can also be used from the front as of a recent patch.


Q: Why "is" a slow mainhand better than a fast one?

Slower weapons have a bigger damage range than faster weapons.
e.g. a 1.3 speed dagger might do 50-60 damage, while a 2.6 speed sword will do 100-120. Even if their DPS is the same. Over time the damage will be the same, but that only applies to autoattacks (white damage). Since sinister strike, mutilate, ambush, backstab, hemo all use the weapon's damage for instant attacks it's simply a matter of BIGGER is better. And thus slower weapons are a prime choice for your main hand attacks.


Q: What are the best glyphs to use for DPS?

Combat: Sinister strike, slice and dice, rupture, killing spree, tricks of the trade. Sinister strike is mandatory really. Minor glyphs don't matter much.
Mutilate: Mutilate, tricks of the trade, hunger for blood. (rupture and slice and dice can be used, but probably won't give you much benefit)


Q: Why doesn't Vanish always work?

Server sync lag mainly.
You click vanish, and your client thinks you're in stealth.
The server receives an attack command from the other player or npc.
The server "then" receives your vanish command.
The server allows you to get hit.
You lose stealth, you die, etc.

As a "fix" blizzard has added a 0.5 second immunity to vanish. It's nearly impossible to notice but there have been many cases where a rogue has been able to survive a lethal crushing blow from a boss mob by vanishing "right" at the correct time. Your combat log will show you received a 60K hit, gain stealth. But not actually taken damage.

At any rate, blizzard is "aware" of the issue and has some plans for fixing it in due time. Obviously, it's not a very high priority.


Q: What professions will give me the best DPS improvement?

See this link.
Basically:
* Engineering gives "up to" 47 EP for mutilate and "up to" 57 EP for combat, depending how good you keep all your cooldowns on the glove enchant and belt enchant running. See here
* Jewelcrafting gives 42 EP (or, AEP if you prefer)
* Blacksmithing, inscription, enchanting, leatherworking and skinning are all 40 EP.
* Alchemy is 40 but requires you to have a flask active.

Don't bother with the rest if you're looking for more damage.
Tailoring is shit, and both herbalism and mining are primarily just for PvP.


Q: What races are best for PvE?

In order from good to bad:
* Horde: Orc, Troll, (goblin?), blood elf, undead.
* Alliance: Human, Night elf, Dwarf, Gnome.

If you want to know "why", just look at the racials.


Q: What races are best for PvP?

In order from good to bad:
* Horde:
* Alliance:
Someone list these, I'm not much into pvp myself.


Q: What addons do you recommend I use?

Classtimer, to see your "timers".
Bartender, for more bars.
Grid, to see who else is in the raid with you, and allow you to select tricks of the trade targets more easily.
Fubar, just because it's awesome.
Bigwigs, because you need it for raid warnings.

Get them on curse (yuck) or through mmoui minion.


Q: What enchants should I use?

* Weapons: Berserking. This one was made a bit less dramatic in 3.0.8 -5% reduced armor instead of a whooping -25%
* Helm: Arcanum of Torment. Requires revered with Knights of the Ebon Blade.
* Shoulders: Greater Inscription of the Axe. Requires exalted with the Sons of Hodir. (Or inscription enchant)
* Chest: Powerful Stats +10 to all.
* Cloak: Major Agility +22 (or engineer enchant)
* Bracers: Greater Assault +50 AP (or Leatherworking enchant)
* Gloves: Crusher +44 AP (or engineering enchant)
* Legs: Icescale Leg Armor +75 AP +22 crit.
* Boots: Icewalker +12 hit, +12 crit (or engineering enchant)
* Belt: Eternal Belt Buckle +1 socket = 20 agi


Q: What poisons work best in PvE?

For combat:
* MH Wound poison and OH Deadly poison.

For assassination:
* Deadly + Instant (someone verify?)


Q: Why not use Instant poison as Combat?

Without talents wound poison simply does more damage.
Less damage per hit, but WAY higher proc rate = more damage over time.

Instant poison is still useful, but only if you are specced deep into mutilate.


Q: What poisons work best in PvP?

Crippling is pretty much mandatory.
Mind numbing poison / Wound poison depending on the situation.


Q: Why can't I use cloth / Maill?

You can use cloth, but there is no cloth with stats that benefit you.
And, you can't train mail or plate armor.
Rogues are "stealthy", so no clinking mail for you.


Q: Where do I train certain weapon skills?

At the weapon master, see: http://www.wowwiki.com/Weapon_master
As a rogue you can learn:
* Melee: Unarmed, Daggers, Swords, Axes (as of 3.2), Maces. All one handed only.
* Ranged: Bows / Crossbows / Guns / Thrown


Q: Can you recommend some specs?

-todo


Q: Are there any useful links where I can look for more information?

You can find most of the useful links in this sticky: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=37924.0

Some Extra info sources:
* Some stuff this FAQ is based on: http://rrvs.blogspot.com/2009/01/rogue-wotlk-stuff.html
* 3.2 Professions in detail: http://rrvs.blogspot.com/2009/07/slo...ofessions.html
* PvE DPS: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t24301-rogue_pve_dps/
* Spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c..._spreadsheets/
* Spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t27244-r...t_spreadsheet/
* Rogue Info: http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue
* Rating values: http://www.wowwiki.com/Combat_rating_system
* Gear list: http://www.shadowpanther.net/

[kildal]

most frequent question i see is what's best of combat and mutilate

else u got caps
how to use a spreadsheet
what to gem
(which u've mentioned)

how to improve dps -.- lame question tho

weapon of choise (speed and such)
to use axe/swords, fist/daggers or mace as combat spec and why ofc

why u should roll a rogue? =/ many asking that too

how to pvp :P? harder to get in a Q&A tho, too much info :-\

idk what else, i add if i come up with some ideas

[bbr]

You can refer to other guides in a Q&A, for example for the "how to PvP".


What are the rogue counter classes, would be useful though.
Or, what classes are weak against rogues.
Fast weapon or slow weapon?

[Voij]

Maybe include some typical Rogue-Makros, like stopattack-vanish, Riposte/SS[though hardly used], Autoloot-Pickpocket, Focus-Blind, Tricks-Macros and such stuff.

[Imadethemamilkshake]

Quite frankly, this link should be included:

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t24301-rogue_pve_dps/

It may be out of date, however, it contains a ton of valuable information for PvE rogues of all stripes.

[sparks]

Builds, glyphs and rotations.

I have seen so may people put things like armor recommendations.
AH items for your new 80 ( I like this kind of thing ) BUT I don't think this is appropriate for a faq.

[Shimata]

Vanish mechanics and how to not use it :

Advanced pvp tactics and how to use abilities in the best manner to cope with diffrent classes. Perhaps.

[Jilaes]

- which professions should i chose in order to become a uber_chosen_one_shadow_assassin_kunfu_super_rogue? Tailoring? Or maybe the flowercounting stuff?
- which race and therefor racial ability to chose for r0xXx0r pvp?
- which race and therefor racial ability to chose for r0xXx0r pve? ..heard some whispering of trolls to take a step upwarts the foodchain in future...

could be some topics..

[Amstelkid]

• Which addons are best to use?
• How to gem with what weapons?
• Whats the best pre %Y-gear for %X-dungeon?
• Which %Y-weapon is best for what %X-spec?

[Illunis]

stat caps
macros
gems/chants for X scenario with Y item for Z spec
breakdowns of each specs strengths and weaknesses(combat vs muti pve, etc)
viable pvp specs, (lol fok spam?)
BiS list for items/gems/chants
best profs for PVE and PVP

im sure some of these have already been listed but thats what ive got so far

[NonMagical]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=37924.0

Already one started by Grindfreak. If you think something should be added to it you should PM him and request it? Grindfreak is trying to avoid having more stickies I believe.

[Grindfreak]

I fully support this thread tbh, if you get a solid FaQ here I'll add it to the read before posting.

[bbr]

I fully support this thread tbh, if you get a solid FaQ here I'll add it to the read before posting.

Yep, that's why I'm gathering data first.

Keep the suggestions coming people!

[SamuraiJakkass86]

I had to teach a lvl 39 rogue:
-What poisons were and how to get them (and helped him with his quest)
-Why backstab doesn't work facing the enemy
-That he had moves he could use while stealthed
-That spell power was not a useful stat on him
-That he didn't need to be talented as fists/swords/maces at the same time

The people who need these things explained to them are not of the mindset to find FAQ's.

[Illunis]

I had to teach a lvl 39 rogue:
-What poisons were and how to get them (and helped him with his quest)
-Why backstab doesn't work facing the enemy
-That he had moves he could use while stealthed
-That spell power was not a useful stat on him
-That he didn't need to be talented as fists/swords/maces at the same time

The people who need these things explained to them are not of the mindset to find FAQ's.

this person was also, LEVEL 39, probably his first char if he never learned the sp dmg isnt helpful to rogues, and doesnt know what hes doing, probably doesnt even know MMO-champ exists. you could maybe misdirect your noob aggro to a website that explains these things, or be subtle about it when he asks where you learned all this, point him in the right direction.

not all people are the level 39 rogue running around in westfall trying to figure out how to get the key from the defias robot, some people hear debate between AP/Agi/ArPen gemming, or different specs(15/51/5, 7/51/13, 51/7/13, 51/13/7, etc) or people who like to read up on a new class they might roll, and they need a place to look for it, a great rogue FAQ would be perfect for them, and maybe some of the spell damage stacking rogues out there too.

[bbr]

Updated slightly, needs a lot of work still.
Keep submitting suggestions.

And accuracy checking is always welcome.

[Eyetotem]

on the macro front

Tricks of the trade

/focus tank

then use this macro at the start and whenever you are catching the tank in threat

/target focus
/cast tricks of the trade
/targetlasttarget


mouse over blind

This one is a must have in PvP and nice for PvE

/cast [target=mouseover,exists,harm,nodead] Blind



Pickpocket opener

Why not collect more gold for no extra time??

I have all my openers with this macro so just replace the spell with the desired one. For Cheapshot it looks like this.

first and foremost turn on autoloot or this will not work


/cast Pickpocket
/cast Cheapshot




For the guy that said something about macros, this is a basic start......any additional ones you guys have I would love to know.

[satori sartori]

wats up with the poison thing as combat.
it is
MH WOUND; OH DEADLY ALWAYS
as far as i know

[bbr]

wats up with the poison thing as combat.
it is
MH WOUND; OH DEADLY ALWAYS
as far as i know

If your offhand is too slow and/or or your hit+haste too low to reliably keep a stack of 5 deadly poison active on the target then you should switch the two around.
You can try it on a test dummy sometime depending on what weapons you're using.

[Annoying]

Q: What races are best for PvE?

In order from good to bad:
* Horde: Orc, Troll, (goblin?), blood elf, undead.
* Alliance: Human, Night elf, Dwarf, Gnome.

Should really clarify on this. Alliance: Humans are only best with swords under expertise cap, dwarfs are better with maces under expertise cap, and Night elves have the best passive stats if you're using axes/fists/daggers.