Help for a fellow warlock?

[Satun]

Hey everyone,
I have a few questions in regards to my warlock. My rotation and spec are the 0/13/58 destro spec and I follow the rotation of

life tap>corr>coe>immolate>conflagrate>cb>spam incin

I pull about 4k+ on the training dummies and am wondering if thats where I should be? I have a friend who has a warlock, same gear overall, same spec/rotation and he seems to pull 7k in raids. I'm just curious if i'm doing something wrong, gems are not what they should be, or enchants are wrong.

Any advice/tips/help would be greatly appreciated.

Feel free to look up my toon on wow-heroes

Character Name: Satun
Realm: Deathwing (US)

[Knuffelbert]

Well I learned that corruption doesn't belong into the rotation (except you have to move of course). Also it's not clear if you wait after immolate in order to conflagrate (which happens at the beginning of a fight and usually several times within a fight in my experience), this costs quite a bit since you can't conflagrate before the server sends back a confirmation that it hit (so to speak), depending on lag you loose quite a bit of cast time. Their your rotation needs to be fixed (either cast CB or get into the habit of refreshing your immolate a bit earlier).

Also 4k at a target dummy means at least 6k in a normal fight. I have around 4.5k on target dummy and usually have 6-7k in raid.

Also you should aim for 289 hit rating, you are way over that.

(As someone has said before, either socket pure spelldamage or spelldamage/haste+spelldamage/spirit if the bonus is worth it

I'm quite happy with my gear, with the exception of trinkets:
http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone...axx&name=Aargs (you seem to prefer wowheroes)

[rabide]

You're WAY over the hitcap, and you're lacking haste. Replace your hit gems with sp/haste gems, and your purple stam gems with spirit/sp.

Also, casting corruption is a waste of a GCD, instead, cast another incinerate.

[Sporatik]

Target Dummie
Raid Boss

fill in the rest.....

[SensenmanN]

You're WAY over the hitcap, and you're lacking haste. Replace your hit gems with sp/haste gems, and your purple stam gems with spirit/sp.

Also, casting corruption is a waste of a GCD, instead, cast another incinerate.

I hate to be rude, but please don't listen to this idiot. I really wish people would think before they give random answers.

Socket full SP epic gems in all of your slots except those you need for your meta. Obviously try and pick the pieces with the best bonuses to put in non SP gems. You can easily do the math for each item and see what pieces are best to get the socket bonus. There is an exception to this rule though, there are a very small amount of items where the socket bonus is worth getting, rather than a SP gem.

Quoted from EJ forums
0/13/58 (using the following gearset http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=13002350)
Stat Weight
Intellect 0.58
Spirit 0.74
Crit rating 1.04
Haste rating 1.56
Spell power 1.54

You can use the above stat weight to decide if you have a piece worth getting the socket bonus (beyond making your meta work) though its very unlikely.

Next, fix your enchants and upgrade to all epic gems as you can afford it. Cloak needs to be 23 haste, chest needs to be 15 spir (old enchant). Your leg enchant should be the 50 SP + 20 Spir one, not the stam one. You have too much hit, as was said. You should run with 14-11% depending on spec n such.

Your glyphs and spec are good, though I personally pick up 2/2 Improved Healthstone over 2/2 Demonic Embrace, just in case I am the only lock in the raid, we still have good stones. I also pick up Soul Link, but that's more of a personal preference, and the fact that most of the Ulduar and ToC fights have a lot of raid dmg, so it helps keep me alive. At the cost of 1 less crit, it's worth it to me.

[rabide]

I hate to be rude, but please don't listen to this idiot. I really wish people would think before they give random answers.

Socket full SP epic gems in all of your slots except those you need for your meta. Obviously try and pick the pieces with the best bonuses to put in non SP gems. You can easily do the math for each item and see what pieces are best to get the socket bonus. There is an exception to this rule though, there are a very small ammount of items where the socket bonus is worth getting, rather than a SP gem.

Quoted from EJ forums
0/13/58 (using the following gearset http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=13002350)
Stat Weight
Intellect 0.58
Spirit 0.74
Crit rating 1.04
Haste rating 1.56
Spell power 1.54

If you hate to be rude, then perhaps you should avoid making unnecessarily rude comments. I was merely suggesting that spirit benefits him more than stamina does. Seeing that he's socketing purple to keep his socket bonuses, it'd be a better choice to go with spirit.

[SensenmanN]

I was saying I hate to be rude, but if your going to give crappy info, I am going to have to step in.

Anyway, yes spir > stam. But there is no need to socket anything but pure SP unless you are making your meta work.





Continuing with my post from above:

Corruption should not be in your rotation unless you are moving, or it's the first 1-5 seconds of the fight. I cast it as I run in to give the tank agro time, and I cast it when I am moving, that's it. You also really shouldn't have to use CoE in a boss fight, especially in a 25 man. If you do, something is very wrong with your raid. If you don't need CoE (because you have a moonkin / unholy DK) then cast CoD.

[STIG]

red sockets = 23 sp
yellow sockets = 12 sp/10 haste
blue sockets = 12 sp/10 spirit
thats how you should socket.

corruption is a waste in the demo rotation, its actually a dps loss.
rotation goes a little something like this (judging you got a boomkin/elemental shaman in the group):
Immolate > conflag > CoD > chaos bolt > spam incinerate till conflag is off cd > repeat.
the reason why you use CoD AFTER conflagrate, is because the pyroclasm proc will boost your CoD's damage by 6% when it goes off.
don't you just hate people who quote elitistjerks forums thinknig they know something. have you played warlock SensenmanN?
or you just think quoting silly numbers makes you the master?


EDIT: yes I just saw your sig, shush

[SensenmanN]

red sockets = 23 sp
yellow sockets = 12 sp/10 haste
blue sockets = 12 sp/10 spirit
thats how you should socket.

corruption is a waste in the demo rotation, its actually a dps loss.
rotation goes a little something like this (judging you got a boomkin/elemental shaman in the group):
Immolate > conflag > CoD > chaos bolt > spam incinerate till conflag is off cd > repeat.
the reason why you use CoD AFTER conflagrate, is because the pyroclasm proc will boost your CoD's damage by 6% when it goes off.
don't you just hate people who quote elitistjerks forums thinknig they know something. have you played warlock SensenmanN?
or you just think quoting silly numbers makes you the master?


EDIT: yes I just saw your sig, shush

I quote EJ because he is asking for help. I don't know about you, but having a good stat weight is very important if he has no idea before this post. Also I quote for truth. If I were to say come in and post as you or the guy before me did and just say "Do this, do that" how would you know if I was just talking out of my ass?

And yes, I've been playing warlock since 60.




Continuing on again:
If you haven't, you really should head over to the elitist jerks forums. Yes it is filled with 'know it all asshats' like myself, but it also is a very good place to find the best information for your class.
The destruction post - http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t38033-m...ction_warlock/
Warlock forums - http://elitistjerks.com/f80/

I guess it's also worth mentioning, the reason you want only 14% hit or less is because, like CoE, there are other classes/specs in the game that provide a Hit debuff to the boss, that will increase your hit. Shadow priest / Moonkin. When your in a decent 25 man raid, the raid leader will make sure you have that debuff, so you won't need the full 16% hit. If you want to figure exactly how much hit you need, just know you want 17% hit total, from gear / spec / other classes debuffs / buffs.

They have everything from why you use the specific rotation, to what enchants and gems are best.

[Satun]

Thanks guys for the great responses. As far as my dps on raid bosses, I usually stick around 4.5k which is mainly the reason why I posted to see if I was doing something wrong because I know I should be doing more.

I'm going to resocket my items and see where that puts me.

Overall, i'm not doing much wrong am I? Besides misplaced gems and a little mixup in my rotation.

[Peepo]

to fill the yellow sockets (to meet meta or if socket bonus is worth it) you guys are choosing haste?... why not crit for a destro lock?... i haven't checked his profile, is his crit high enough already?...

[Satun]

to fill the yellow sockets (to meet meta or if socket bonus is worth it) you guys are choosing haste?... why not crit for a destro lock?... i haven't checked his profile, is his crit high enough already?...

My crit is 31% unbuffed

[gherkin]

Why not crit: Warlocks have absolutely nothing that relies on a crit. Just damage.
Why haste: Haste allows you to fit in more spells per Immolate/Conflag/Chaos Bolt cooldown, which counter-balances dps lost from short movements, lifetapping, and the like.

[SensenmanN]

to fill the yellow sockets (to meet meta or if socket bonus is worth it) you guys are choosing haste?... why not crit for a destro lock?... i haven't checked his profile, is his crit high enough already?...

Stat Weight
Intellect 0.58
Spirit 0.74
Crit rating 1.04
Haste rating 1.56
Spell power 1.54


That's why.

to fill the yellow sockets (to meet meta or if socket bonus is worth it) you guys are choosing haste?... why not crit for a destro lock?... i haven't checked his profile, is his crit high enough already?...

Other than the few easily fixable things, no I don't your doing anything wrong.

If you could like a WWS of yourself that might help. One thing I notice a lot of well geared low DPS people doing a lot of is nothing... as in a new target becomes available, and the strat calls for you to swap to it, and it takes you 5-10 seconds to acquire the new target, and start attacking it. It also could be you just aren't keeping your dots up or something along those lines. If you get a WWS of yourself look at how long the fight lasted vs how much of that time you kept your dots up. Also look at how many casts you got off compared to the other warlocks.

[Peepo]

Stat Weight
Intellect 0.58
Spirit 0.74
Crit rating 1.04
Haste rating 1.56
Spell power 1.54


That's why.

that's what i get for visiting too many forums and trying to gear up a mage at the same time... so then you would say that spellstone over firestone as well?... i've been using spellstone, but ran into another destro lock that was using firestone...

[Impurath]

Firestone is better since it has 1% direct damage boost. Don't mind the crit rating.

[SensenmanN]

Firestone, at least thats what was best last time I checked.

[Knuffelbert]

Why not crit: Warlocks have absolutely nothing that relies on a crit. Just damage.

Conflag crits (if you mean by just damage 100% more for that crit)

[harky]

Pyroclasm up-time is increased with crit, but each percentage gain in crit results in a diminished return in said up-time. Consider the OPs base crit, figure a Firestone in and you're at 33%. Raid buffs of 3%, 5% and 5% putting him at 46%. Now Conflag's +25% is 71%. Let's give Empowered Imp some discredit and say it only gives him 4% more Conflag crits to make things easier. That's 75% crit. I know with my rotation I use Conflag every ~11.5 seconds. So my maximum up-time would be ~87%, with 75% proc chance that's 65% up-time. Now add on let's say 5% crit. That's now up to 69.6% (+4.6%), another 5% and you're at 73.9% (+4.3%) and so on up the the maximum up 87%. So that first 5% crit only works out to be an extra .46% DPS.

Consider now that crit itself results in less than a 1% DPS gain per percent and... yeah. Haste is better. People occasionally make claim that crit is better than these models suggest, but the truth of the matter is that crit hasn't been a good stat to stack since vanilla. There are reasonably thresholds and under that it gets really sloppy, but Destro gains enough crit from talents and buffs to pass that threshold naked. Crit is a bonus stat. In many cases it's about on par with spirit... That alone says something about the value of crit.

[zuxia]

Pyroclasm up-time is increased with crit, but each percentage gain in crit results in a diminished return in said up-time. Consider the OPs base crit, figure a Firestone in and you're at 33%. Raid buffs of 3%, 5% and 5% putting him at 46%. Now Conflag's +25% is 71%. Let's give Empowered Imp some discredit and say it only gives him 4% more Conflag crits to make things easier. That's 75% crit. I know with my rotation I use Conflag every ~11.5 seconds. So my maximum up-time would be ~87%, with 75% proc chance that's 65% up-time. Now add on let's say 5% crit. That's now up to 69.6% (+4.6%), another 5% and you're at 73.9% (+4.3%) and so on up the the maximum up 87%. So that first 5% crit only works out to be an extra .46% DPS.

Consider now that crit itself results in less than a 1% DPS gain per percent and... yeah. Haste is better. People occasionally make claim that crit is better than these models suggest, but the truth of the matter is that crit hasn't been a good stat to stack since vanilla. There are reasonably thresholds and under that it gets really sloppy, but Destro gains enough crit from talents and buffs to pass that threshold naked. Crit is a bonus stat. In many cases it's about on par with spirit... That alone says something about the value of crit.

Which is odd...since spirit is normally over 1 in suppression build...using glyph of life tap of course. So using what you said...crit is alot closer to haste than its current value.