Feral or Rogue?

[Voodoo Boyz]

Oddball question:

What are the advantages to playing a rogue at 85 over say, a Feral Druid? I do casual PVP (probably not going on an arena team anytime soon) and am looking for something melee to play as an alt to my Warlock.

Basically, I've got an 85 Druid that is Bear/Boomkin and I'm not too into the Boomkin lately so I've been considering using it as an alt PvP toon to mess around on for Melee as a Kitty. I've never played really kitty in PvE and I've never taken this guy into anything PvP related, though I do know some basics of available spells (ie. Feral Charge is roughly equivalent to Shadowstep, etc).

Alternatively I've got a Rogue I've been leveling in PvE and is at 73. He's got full PvE BOA's and the PvP trinket. Basically I had this guy before I got bit by the PVP bug and I've taken him as Subtlety into some BG's and it's pretty fun, much more fun than PvE has been on him, though leveling in BG's is much slower than Questing/Instances.

I think I'd like the Rogue overall more, though the level grind to get to 85 seems kind of rough, and with 4.3 nerfing Northrend's EXP requirements by 30%, I figure waiting to level this guy is a good idea, and I could get sort of used to playing a Melee/Energy based class in PvP by experimenting on my Druid and getting him PvP gear. Hell, I may even like the options/playstyle the druid has more.

I guess what I'd like is some advice, and a comparison of pro's/cons's for each class. The advantage of the Rogue from what I can tell (in my noob-PvP eyes) is that stealthed it moves much faster, it can vanish (though my druid is a NE, so Shadowmeld/Stealth could theoretically be the same, though not quite as good), and eventually at 85 Smoke Bomb is ridiculously good. It appears the Rogue has more interrupts/cc, though really I don't know my Druid very well outside of being a Bear Tank & a Boomkin in PVE, so I could be missing a lot.

Also, could someone give me a run-down of what is used to build combo points for each class?

For my Sub Rogue, I've been using Hemo to build CP, not using much else (Backstab?), and then finishing with Eviscerate/Recoup as necessary. Should I be using Rupture at all?

For the Kitty, I assume it's Mangle, Rake, Shred/Claw?, and then Rip for finishers? Really, I've got no clue here and would love some advice on what to use in general.

Thanks

[oseven]

Feral is dead. It died when a core functionality of the class was removed after 5 years of nothing being wrong.

Am I butthurt? You can say that sure, and I won't deny it.

However, the fact that Rogues are more versatile and have many more useful tricks will still remain.

Useful Rogue tricks:
- Winning
- Tiger Blood
- Bi-winning

[Deleted]

In pvp: Druid > rogue, and they are getting buffed.

[Yotei]

Feral is dead. It died when a core functionality of the class was removed after 5 years of nothing being wrong.

Am I butthurt? You can say that sure, and I won't deny it.

However, the fact that Rogues are more versatile and have many more useful tricks will still remain.

Useful Rogue tricks:
- Winning
- Tiger Blood
- Bi-winning

Even though this post is obvious, and you didn't try to hide it at all, some people might not notice..

Feral's not dead, so don't believe this guy. If he actually believes it to be so, I'm going to assume it's because he had a tough time adapting and wasn't very good at the class in the first place.

Both are viable, really, and it just depends on what type of play-style you prefer. Honestly I'd get them both 85 and try the appropriate specs out for myself before deciding. If you need help on specs, gems, and what not, I'd check arenajunkies out or look around these forums (I'm pretty sure there's a PvP Feral guide in the Druid Class forum).

[Tzzentch]

Feral is dead. It died when a core functionality of the class was removed after 5 years of nothing being wrong.

Am I butthurt? You can say that sure, and I won't deny it.

However, the fact that Rogues are more versatile and have many more useful tricks will still remain.

Useful Rogue tricks:
- Winning
- Tiger Blood
- Bi-winning

A Charlie Sheen reference... how droll

I dunno much about kitty in PVP but my main is a rogue an i love it.
understand that Rogue is possibly the hardest class to play well in PVP at this time so you've got your work cut out for you.
but once you get the hang of it it's so satisfying.

use backstab to build combo points, or hemo if it suits you better, Backstab does crazy amounts of damage but has a positional requirement (be behind them) so either way but backstab is better once you get used to it.
don't worry about rupture for PVP you've got the hemo bleed effect for that and rupture hits like a puppy in a UFC fight.

keep recoup up at all times unless you are 100% sure that 5 point evis is gonna kill the guy.

check Arena junkies for some helpful hints on rogue'ing just try to translate everything down to level 72 =) you can dominate at lower level BGs so make the most of it now!

also try using this macro

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:3] Ambush
/cast [stance:1] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:2] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:0] Backstab
/cast Premeditation
/sw 25
/sw play

This will take the guesswork out of what ability to spam, it will use backstab normally, Ambush if you are in Shadowdance, and Cheap shot if you are stealthed or vanished. you can also adapt this by changing the ability on the end of each line I.E.

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:3] Ambush
/cast [stance:1] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:2] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:0] hemo
/cast Premeditation
/sw 25
/sw play

hope i could be of some help =)

[Deleted]

For casual PvP I'd say go with the rogue. It's less gimmicky than the feral and has a few more "outs".

If you plan to play arena, I'd say go feral. Instant clones and ridiculous bleed damage is nice to have on any team.

[Serix69]

Rogue has a specific niche that they can fill very well, and only mix with certainly classes in PvP.

Ferals are basicly the same thing, however I feel they fit in better with more classes due to their nature of abilities.

Apples and Oranges.

Personally, as a Disc priest in 2v2, I have never had a higher rating than with the Feral Druid I play with now, we just crush DPS+Healer teams, and double DPS teams all comes down to the first 60 seconds of cooldowns and who survives.

[Stitchez]

Oddball question:

For my Sub Rogue, I've been using Hemo to build CP, not using much else (Backstab?), and then finishing with Eviscerate/Recoup as necessary. Should I be using Rupture at all?
Thanks

Hemo is good for building cp's and doing damage when you can't be behind your target, but you definitely want to be using backstab when you can, and no you won't be using rupture it's a waste of cp's. You should be using the hemo glyph to have a constant bleed effect on your taget for the +16% damage. Also don't forget about shiv, not so much for cp building or damage but it helps if you need to apply crip poison instantly or you need to dispel an enrage effect (berserker rage, unholy frenzy, etc...).

[Voodoo Boyz]

So today I did some BG's on my now 74 Rogue, and then I tried out my Feral.

The Rogue was fantastic as usual, and I think I got more familiar with it.

The Feral, well it was mostly PvE gear, and while I took the time to setup some Macros, laid my keys out like I would expect them to work for interrupts, consolidating abilities, etc it was just...bad. They did things to me, in bad places, and it still hurts.

[Ieft]

Rogue. Next season they're going to be amazing.

[Niyari]

Rogue. Picked mine up recently and they're crazy good (and fun, of course) doing casual BG's. Just don't use any of those macros above, it's better if you learn how to use abilities yourself instead of relying on a macro to do so much work for you. It's like using a Turbo controller on a fighting or shooting game. :/

Anyways, try to keep up Recup at all costs and use Hemo/Backstab (with Backstab having higher priority) for CP generation outside of Stealth. Garrote with Garrote Glyph is AMAZING for shutting down casters, so make sure you try to utilize that instead of only using Ambush as an opener or during Shadow Dance.

I really can't compare them to Feral since I haven't played my druid in Cata yet. But I feel like a god on my rogue with all the burst damage and survivability Blizzard has given them this expansion. Not to mention Smoke Bomb is crazy good at pestering healers (whom of which are OP in BG's).

[Feranor]

Feral is dead. It died when a core functionality of the class was removed after 5 years of nothing being wrong.

This. What made the Feral unique and most fun is gone. It's no longer a skirmishing hybrid using all sorts of different maneuvers because this works neither in Arena nor in raids, which is all Blizz seems to care about.

---

I'd say go with the Rogue. Not because they have better stealth, far more control etc. pp. That's all fine and dandy. But the biggest advantage Rogue has over Feral is this:

Rogue is considered a "pure", Feral is considered a "hybrid". (i.e. you can compare Rogue to Feral, but not Rogue to Druid)

Notice how there's a massive deluge of tears whenever a Druid spec isn't ridiculously weak? Notice how this has historically always lead to completely overblown Druid nerfs (e.g. first content patch of BC, truck load of nerfs during S3-4, 4.0.6 etc.)?

What if some balance guy at Blizz decides that, next patch (or next expansion), Feral is no longer going to be the Druid's PvP spec? What if it changes to Moonkin and you don't like playing casters? Tough luck. If you complain about it, the same ignoramuses that called for your nerfs will now gloat and say something along the lines of "My <insert "pure" class that plays pretty much the same with every spec> only has 1 viable Spec as well, it's only fair."

[Deleted]

Id go for feral,i always played a feral druid,more PvP than PvE though,depends on what u would like really,we can't decide that for u

[Evolixe]

also try using this macro

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:3] Ambush
/cast [stance:1] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:2] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:0] Backstab
/cast Premeditation
/sw 25
/sw play

This will take the guesswork out of what ability to spam, it will use backstab normally, Ambush if you are in Shadowdance, and Cheap shot if you are stealthed or vanished. you can also adapt this by changing the ability on the end of each line I.E.

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:3] Ambush
/cast [stance:1] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:2] Cheap shot
/cast [stance:0] hemo
/cast Premeditation
/sw 25
/sw play

hope i could be of some help =)

2 of many.. i want more macro slots

@OP im afraid im going to have a hard time to decide what will be the class of choice for you. All i can really say is that you will have to try both before you can make a good decision.

What if some balance guy at Blizz decides that, next patch (or next expansion), Feral is no longer going to be the Druid's PvP spec? What if it changes to Moonkin and you don't like playing casters? Tough luck. If you complain about it, the same ignoramuses that called for your nerfs will now gloat and say something along the lines of "My <insert "pure" class that plays pretty much the same with every spec> only has 1 viable Spec as well, it's only fair."

But that is wrong. Because its ok for other classes to only have 1 pvp spec. But druid's MUST have 3.

/end sarcasm

-_-'

[Ooldoong]

I prefer the rogue because I find the suite of tools more fluid and thus enjoyable. Ferals have different tools, which usually involve dipping into other specs (caster dps, caster heals, or tank), to accomplish a similar result.

While I don't want to pick up the task of it, what you may want is a breakdown of the pros/cons that each brings. The list will be fairly lengthy.

[Deleted]

This. What made the Feral unique and most fun is gone. It's no longer a skirmishing hybrid using all sorts of different maneuvers because this works neither in Arena nor in raids, which is all Blizz seems to care about.

---

I'd say go with the Rogue. Not because they have better stealth, far more control etc. pp. That's all fine and dandy. But the biggest advantage Rogue has over Feral is this:

Rogue is considered a "pure", Feral is considered a "hybrid". (i.e. you can compare Rogue to Feral, but not Rogue to Druid)

Notice how there's a massive deluge of tears whenever a Druid spec isn't ridiculously weak? Notice how this has historically always lead to completely overblown Druid nerfs (e.g. first content patch of BC, truck load of nerfs during S3-4, 4.0.6 etc.)?

Are you honestly implying that ferals in 4.0.3 were in any way balanced?

Jesus, people will say anything about their class. If it's viable or anything less it's "total and absolute shit", and if it's totally overpowered it's "not ridiculously weak". I mean wow.

[Blueobelisk]

Rogue advantages:
It's fucking overpowered if played in the right hands.
In BGs you're gonna be a hit and run driver.
In arenas you can be amazing.
You'll probably always have a good PVP spec and be viable.

Rogue disadvantages:
They do okay in the average player but have a high skill cap.
Ferals do everything better than them.

Feral advantages:
This season they're OP.
They replace rogues in any comp and can do better.
Theyre burst is Jesus Christ.
Cyclone omfg.
Instant cyclone omfger.

Feral disadvantages:
They're getting nerfed next season/patch.
They walk slow in stealth.

I'd go with rogue long term tbh.

[Evolixe]

Rogue disadvantages:
Ferals do everything better than them.

Feral advantages:
They replace rogues in any comp and can do better.

Not sure if srs/hope not srs. Probebly not. Do like

[Wolfdragon]

Let's make this simple few vanity(used to be tier 1 comps) RMP vs. FMP
RMP has smokebomb, a longer stun kidneyshot garrote silence and more cc on a healer than FMP does, rogue burst is alot easier to set up than feral burst, and it's virtually a no peel situation due to smokebomb, which feral sadly doesn't have. FMP has Cyclone, and more damage overall, however far less controll/peel- I can't say I'm anything short of dominating RMP's in pvp when I sit on FMP, but that's mostly because I face people who's rep is way over what they can actually do (faced a well known dara mactire multiglad mage, accompanied by a wrathfull glad rogue, and a gladiator priest- won 3 in a row at 2450 mmr). They don't really seem amazingly good, I mean I've faced Raiku Igno and Hydra shortly after said comp ( this isn't naming or shaming, these are well known ingame celebrities-sotospeak ) and it was a totally different ballgame, we lost 2 and won 1 which was pure luck- Basically RMP is the stronger comp in the right hands, but people can't play it any more. Moving on to Feral Lock shaman vs. RLS- FLS doesn't exist joke. Rogue is by far more versatile in the tools it provides, while feral is generally THE meleecleave melee nowdays, rogue is much better at this point though, due to providing select tools no other class can provide.

[Inukashi]

The Rogue is the one holding the enemy and the feral is the one punching the enemy